Clash in Chitral over Kalash girl’s ‘forced’ conversion to Islam

[asad71]

Kafiristan ceased to exist a while back when the people there converted to Islam and the region changed its name to Nuristan. This happened during the British era.

When I visited in 1967 it was still Kafiristan.Till 1971 it was very much Kafiristan.

Jizya was never heavy, and this argument tells me that you are only here to bash Islamic history without any or little prior knowledge of the Early Islamic Conquests

@faisal6309

Able-bodied Muslims are obliged to bear arms in the defense of the nation. This cannot be enforced on non-Muslims. Therefore, the state levied a small tax in lieu of their service. This was a perfectly fair and sound system. Pro-Christian writers have been focusing on this without explaining the premise. Muslim states should even in modern times impose Jizya and refrain from recruiting from non-Muslim communities.

 

[Benign Persona]

 

[faisal6309]

The Girl converted of her own will as have many thousands of Kalash .



Look at the mosques that replaced them ,magnificent .
why would we want temples for ? we dont need temples

What if someone tey to destroy that mosque to build shopping mall or church or something else. I am pretty sure you are going to get in way no matter how bad shaped mosque is.

Jizya was never heavy, and this argument tells me that you are only here to bash Islamic history without any or little prior knowledge of the Early Islamic Conquests

@asad71
of couse it was not heavy in the start but it was increased a lot after time to pay for conquests.

 

[Mugwop]

whats wrong with them? the lot i know are alright
@waz whats wrong with you? this mugwop fellow is saying there is somthing wrong with british pakistanis

I didn't say all but a good deal of them have serious problems. I can go into details but not in this thread. Take a look at hussian's posts.

 

[Samlee]

The Girl Has Admitted She Converted Of Her Own Choice I Think This Should End All Argument

Just search how many ancient Hindu sites has been destroyed by Muslims in this part of world. Also this land which is now called Pakistan only teaches you how Muhammad Bin Qasim came here and spread Islam instead of telling them how he ordered killing of Hindus in massive numbers and destruction of Hindu temples. Why don't you see Hindu temples around? Nobody knows about Indus River Civilization in Pakistan. There is nothing about them or chapters about great Hindu kings in the past. Have you ever thought why there is only Muslim friendly contents in your Social Studies and Urdu books?

Try to bring the change here and forget about ISIS and Kalash. They are far away from you and hardly affect your life in any way.

Do Everyone A Favour And Correct The Flag Underneath Your Avatar Because It Is Obvious You Have Exposed Your True Nationality

Amusing. I guess you are entitled to your beliefs. But considering there are what some 190 million Muslims in Pakistan - how is it going to matter if 4000 Kalash people pursue their own faith?

Pakistan Government Has Gone Out Of It's Way To Ensure That TTP Scums Do Not Attack This Peaceful Community.No It Does Not Matter

 

[faisal6309]

Do Everyone A Favour And Correct The Flag Underneath Your Avatar Because It Is Obvious You Have Exposed Your True Nationality

Why do you have a mindset that no one from Pakistan can talk like that? Actually there are millions who do it. How sorrowful that is!!

 

[S.Y.A]

If you are Muslim then why do you read English novels with Christian characters in it? You are dumb. Try to understand what I am saying first then come back. Also how much do you know about Indus Valley Civilization? I would love to know.

stupidest logic ever by anyone. you were saying that there are no mandirs here, i said that nearly all of the population has been Muslim for years, that used to visit them, so if a person has brains (which i doubt you have), he will think that naturally since the people that used to go there no longer do so, they fell into disrepair or were converted by the same people that used to go there into the worship place that they need now.

Why do you have a mindset that no one from Pakistan can talk like that? Actually there are millions who do it. How sorrowful that is!!

Really? care to provide any source for your claims?

 

[Jf Thunder]

@asad71
of couse it was not heavy in the start but it was increased a lot after time to pay for conquests.

as far as i know, Jizya has always been fixed................
and the conquests were also paid for by the Govt at that time, Jizya was not the only source of income for the empire.

 

[faisal6309]

stupidest logic ever by anyone. you were saying that there are no mandirs here, i said that nearly all of the population has been Muslim for years, that used to visit them, so if a person has brains (which i doubt you have), he will think that naturally since the people that used to go there no longer do so, they fell into disrepair or were converted by the same people that used to go there into the worship place that they need now.

That was reply to no Hindu temples around, why nobody know about Indus River Civilization, Hindu kings and why our books is full of Muslim friendly contents. You are taking this to in different direction. You should consider using something that you may have in your head called "brain".

Really? care to provide any source for your claims?

Search on social media. There are tons of contents by people.

as far as i know, Jizya has always been fixed................
and the conquests were also paid for by the Govt at that time, Jizya was not the only source of income for the empire.

The Umayyad faced increasing financial difficulties and demanded the jizya from recent converts to Islam as well as from the non-Muslims. This discrimination against converts was a cause of the Abu Muslim rebellion in Khorasan and lead to downfall of the Umayyads. Under the Abbasids, there was significant political turmoil in the region resulting in already-bad economic circumstances, increasing taxes on everyone.

 

[asad71]

as far as i know, Jizya has always been fixed................
and the conquests were also paid for by the Govt at that time, Jizya was not the only source of income for the empire.

@faisal6309

Yes, Jizya was imposed at an affordable standard rate. At times the ruler would waive this. Conquests have been a constant element in human history. And it goes on without interruption. But Jizya fund was neither meant to finance conquests nor would it be of much value in financial term.

 

[S.Y.A]

That was reply to no Hindu temples around, why nobody know about Indus River Civilization, Hindu kings and why our books is full of Muslim friendly contents. You are taking this to in different direction. You should consider using something that you may have in your head called "brain".

Like I said every school teaches about Indus Valley Civilization, and the books are full of "Muslim friendly content" because this is the Islamic Republic of Pakistan where majority of people are Muslims.
And the level students nowadays is such that they know jack about muslim kings with all the "muslim friendly content" filled in the books according to you (I doubt many even know the dates of birth and death of Quaid e Azam), and yet you expect them to know about a civilization that ceased to exist thousands of years ago.
They wont even know about Muslim civilization and dynasties of South Asia other than the Mughals or some very famous ones like Tipu Sultan.

Search on social media. There are tons of contents by people.

I was asking for a specific number and proof to back that number up. "tons of content on social media" is not a proof, nor is social media a reliable source.

 

[Samlee]

Why do you have a mindset that no one from Pakistan can talk like that? Actually there are millions who do it. How sorrowful that is!!

The Millions Who Do It Are Study Under RSS ******* Thank You For Telling Us Where Your Education Comes From As Well

 

[faisal6309]

Like I said every school teaches about Indus Valley Civilization, and the books are full of "Muslim friendly content" because this is the Islamic Republic of Pakistan where majority of people are Muslims.
And the level students nowadays is such that they know jack about muslim kings with all the "muslim friendly content" filled in the books according to you (I doubt many even know the dates of birth and death of Quaid e Azam), and yet you expect them to know about a civilization that ceased to exist thousands of years ago.
They wont even know about Muslim civilization and dynasties of South Asia other than the Mughals or some very famous ones like Tipu Sultan.

There are just one or two things about Indus Valley Civilization which only tells the people such thing existed and nothing more. Even the latest report didn't make it to national TV just online blogs. As for people not knowing Muslim kings and birth/death dates of Quaid e Azam, I blame it on our education system. They still teach our children that there ar nine planets in the solar system. Huge books and no practical leads to donkeys not educated people.

PML-Q tried to bring big changes in our education system. History of Pakistan was taught as extra curriculum activities to students. Also books were distributed freely and much more. But this PML-N has stopped many good things PML-Q started in their time to save money for something else. Blame politicians.

I was asking for a specific number and proof to back that number up. "tons of content on social media" is not a proof, nor is social media a reliable source.

You will find when you try to search it.

The Millions Who Do It Are Study Under RSS ******* Thank You For Telling Us Where Your Education Comes From As Well

I wonder what would you do to me if you were in front of me. You are no different than someone who acts and end up becoming criminals. Unlike you, I am ready to accept if I am somewhere wrong and learn something new. Go criticize people under your own power. My study come from my own effort.

 

[Jf Thunder]

@faisal6309

Yes, Jizya was imposed at an affordable standard rate. At times the ruler would waive this. Conquests have been a constant element in human history. And it goes on without interruption. But Jizya fund was neither meant to finance conquests nor would it be of much value in financial term.

it was way less than Zakat, and it was waived for old people, widows etc

The Umayyad faced increasing financial difficulties and demanded the jizya from recent converts to Islam as well as from the non-Muslims. This discrimination against converts was a cause of the Abu Muslim rebellion in Khorasan and lead to downfall of the Umayyads. Under the Abbasids, there was significant political turmoil in the region resulting in already-bad economic circumstances, increasing taxes on everyone.

differentiate between taxes and Jizya, Taxes are variable, and are applicable on Muslims and Non-Muslims both, while Jizya was fixed, was less in amount and only applicable on Non-Muslims, you must also note that Zakat was applicable only on Muslims and its amount was greater

 

[Samlee]

I wonder what would you do to me if you were in front of me. You are no different than someone who acts and end up becoming criminals. Unlike you, I am ready to accept if I am somewhere wrong and learn something new. Go criticize people under your own power. My study come from my own effort.

Trust Me I Would Do Nothing Not Because I Am 'Liberal' and 'Tolerant' But Because You Are Not Worth It.

A Guy Who Bases His Arguments On 'Social Media' Is Not Worth Wasting My Time or Bandwith