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Citius, Altius: By Kaiser Tufail

I think that statement is erroneous. The course of study/curricula at that Course does not encompass practical flying/test-flying. Historically, selected pilots of both PAF and IAF (post 1947) were assigned to the test-pilots' course at what was then known as the Empire Test Pilots School (ETPS);

There were short courses for the ETPS(diplomas), but no PAF pilot ever went through the complete graduate course before the JF-17 program.

as an eg..
Both PAF and IAF exp pilots regularly took this course as part of their exchange at the RAF.
From the ETPS website.
course is for experienced military pilots who currently carry out post maintenance airtests or who have been selected for such duties. These duties may be either full time, such as those of a dedicated unit test pilot, or as a secondary duty for a line pilot.

The course has a generic content that applies to both single-engine and multi-engine aircraft (turbo-jet, turbo-prop and piston engined), operational and trainer types, fixed wing and rotary wing, however each course will be run for either fixed or rotary wing pilots.

The overall aim of the course is to provide the necessary training required for the planning and performance of post maintenance airtests safely and efficiently. This is a three-day course, which gives the students ground based instruction in the discipline of post-maintenance airtesting of aircraft.

Course Objectives
At the end of the course the student should be able to:

Understand the engineering requirements associated with the post maintenance airtesting of aircraft, the documentation that controls airtests, and why and when such airtests are performed.
Understand the responsibilities of airtest crews, their selection, training and supervision.
Examine the conditions relevant to an airtest sortie, specifically weather conditions, external stores configurations, cg position.
Consider all aspects of pre-flight preparation and planning, risk analysis of test points, knowledge and understanding of the aircraft and its systems, and understanding the requirements of the flight test schedule.
Adapt a critical and analytical approach to the in-flight conduct of airtests, an incremental build-up to critical tests, achieving consistent results, observation and recording of results, understanding of limits, and analysis of problems that occur.
Understand the test techniques required to complete the flight test schedule, with special emphasis on test safety.

However.. for the Jf-17 which is an entirely new aircraft, PAF pilots were sent for the complete graduate course.
Most of the JF-17 T&E pilots were also CAE(college of aeronautical engineering) graduates. So they also had a solid ground in aeronautics and aviation design. The selected pilots went through the tough Flight test engineer course

from the ETPS website.
The course is intended to teach experienced aerospace engineers the philosophy and skills required to undertake all forms of research and development test flying, including complete military release to service programmes. The aim is to produce a graduate well versed and practised in flight and systems testing techniques. Specific objectives of the course are:

To teach a philosophy that can be applied to any type of flight testing
To develop a sound academic background to flight test
To develop skills in the analysis and presentation of flight test results
To develop a broad knowledge of all aviation matters
To promote team-building skills by providing the opportunity of working with pilots and flight-test engineers from a wide variety of nationalities and backgrounds
Course overview
Ground school gives the students an initial intensive period of instruction to ensure that they have the necessary academic skills, thereafter the course is divided into three main topics:

Performance
Handling qualities
Systems
Flying exercises
The ability of the students to take a full and active part in the flying exercises greatly enhances the value of the course, as it instils a greater appreciation of the problems associated with test flying and the cockpit environment in particular. In addition working closely with the pilots, the FTE student will obtain a strong appreciation and understanding of the operational roles of the aircraft. For the majority of flying exercises students are first given a demonstration flight with their tutor before planning and conducting their own test flights. Qualitative observations and performance data taken in flight are then presented in the form of technical reports and 'customer' briefings.

Typically the FTE students achieve over 120 flying hours and all can expect to fly for evaluation purposes in over 15 different types of aircraft. Great emphasis is placed on the need to develop skills of analysis and presentation of flight test results.

Syndicate working
The ETPS environment encourages team building and the test pilots and flight test engineers learn together to gain mutual understanding and respect. Students are placed in syndicates of three, each of which are allocated a course tutor skilled in-group dynamics. The tutor leads the discussions and encourages the development of each individual as a fully contributing team player. The composition of the syndicates is changed each term to allow students to benefit from the experiences of other tutors and students.

Visits
Throughout the course, students are exposed to as wide an experience of aviation matters as possible through visits to the UK and European aircraft industry and various experimental establishments world-wide. They also attend a number of international conferences and exhibitions.

Preview
The course culminates in the assessment of an aircraft on which the student has no previous experience, normally at an overseas test centre or a manufacturer's airfield. Students are formed into teams of two or three and are allocated ten flight hours for their evaluation which results in a full report and presentation to an invited international audience of test personnel.
 
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I think that statement is erroneous. The course of study/curricula at that Course does not encompass practical flying/test-flying. Historically, selected pilots of both PAF and IAF (post 1947) were assigned to the test-pilots' course at what was then known as the Empire Test Pilots School (ETPS); so it is certain that the PAF has had qualified test-pilots for quite some time, much before the JF-17 program commenced. AFAIK, some pilots of the PAF have even been trained as test-pilots in USA. Undoubtedly these test-pilots must have been associated with the Mushak/Super Mushak and K-8 construction programs which preceded the JF-17 program.

While flight testing (such as described here by Aeronaut aka A/Cmde. Kaiser Tufail) is carried out by type qualified/ experienced line pilots before an aircraft is returned to service post-repair/overhaul. Though I strongly suspect that A/Cmde. Kaise Tufail has been trained as a test-pilot as well, given the context of his experiences with testing the F-7 that he has described here and in atleast one other blog posting. Maybe somebody can confirm that, please?

Just as a contextual aside, the IAF (as did the IN, though in lesser numbers) routinely sent up selected pilots to the ETPS and its successor as well as a few civilian TPs from HAL. Apart from that a handful of Indian TPs even trained in France while some went to Russia (for something akin to add-on training). Later India found it economical to establish a Test-Pilots school in India, which if I'm not mistaken functions as an adjunct to ASTE. Just as QFIs and FCLs were trained in India from the 60s/70s. While even they trained earlier in the UK.

In conclusion, PAF has certainly had qualified TPs on its rolls much before the JF-17 project got underway.

What Aeronaut is Kaiser Tufail ??
 
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What Aeronaut is Kaiser Tufail ??

The original one. Air Cmde.(R) Kaiser Tufail has been writing a blog under the name of Aeronaut for quite a long time. I'd urge you to read it. He is very articulate, clearly has been a very good aviator and I believe that he is a person of the highest personal and professional caliber. Apart from that his accounts are few of the insider stories from the PAF esp. wrt to the Kargil misadventure.
 
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Excellent article, brilliantly written without repeating matter over and over as many articles do.

It was a good read but with a sad ending that is the retirement part, all adventures of life are over. Being a busy pilot you do not realize how fast and quickly those 30 years of service got over. Yesterday, you were at the Passing Out and today you're left with just stories to tell.

I love this person, Kaiser Tufail, whom I keep routine personal contact with. You have a lot to learn from him.
 
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I have been reading his blog posts for quite some months, really insightful and joyful articles to read.
 
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Like I say, there is a world of difference between assembly and manufacture.
We manufactured as well- but designs of a proven product in another country.

Assembly is a level lower than that. It achieves lesser than manufacturing other country's designs would.

To put your statement in context, there is a world of difference between manufacturing from your own design and manufacturing a design already proven in another country.
 
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We manufactured as well- but designs of a proven product in another country.

Assembly is a level lower than that. It achieves lesser than manufacturing other country's designs would.

To put your statement in context, there is a world of difference between manufacturing from your own design and manufacturing a design already proven in another country.

Didn't HAL participate in the design of the Marut?
 
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Didn't HAL participate in the design of the Marut?


Not exactly.. it was the brainchild of the Brilliant Kurt Tank.. HAL did learn from that design.. and was directed under Kurt.
But in the end, it was entirely the brilliance of the Doctor that made the Marut possible.
 
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Not exactly.. it was the brainchild of the Brilliant Kurt Tank.. HAL did learn from that design.. and was directed under Kurt.
But in the end, it was entirely the brilliance of the Doctor that made the Marut possible.

Yes, that is why I used the word "participated". This was in the early 60s, and the reason I mentioned the Marut is that modern jet aricraft design is many orders of magnitude more complex than that these days.
 
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Whatever was learned by way of design and testing rigs important were lost as it was shut down. It was frittered away entirely!
Secondly, there occurred such a sea change in modern fighter jets that those who did not update continuously started at the same footing as those who had no experience.
 
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Whatever was learned by way of design and testing rigs important were lost as it was shut down. It was frittered away entirely!
Secondly, there occurred such a sea change in modern fighter jets that those who did not update continuously started at the same footing as those who had no experience.

Perhaps it would be relevant here to quote the legendary Kelly Johnson's rules about airplane design and management:

Kelly Johnson's 14 Rules of Management

1. The Skunk Works manager must be delegated practically complete control of his program in all aspects. He should report to a division president or higher.

2. Strong but small project offices must be provided both by the military and industry.

3. The number of people having any connection with the project must be restricted in an almost vicious manner. Use a small number of good people (10% to 25% compared to the so-called normal systems).

4. A very simple drawing and drawing release system with great flexibility for making changes must be provided.

5. There must be a minimum number of reports required, but important work must be recorded thoroughly.

6. There must be a monthly cost review covering not only what has been spent and committed but also projected costs to the conclusion of the program. Don't have the books 90 days late, and don't surprise the customer with sudden overruns.

7. The contractor must be delegated and must assume more than normal responsibility to get good vendor bids for subcontract on the project. Commercial bid procedures are very often better than military ones.

8. The inspection system as currently used by the Skunk Works, which has been approved by both the Air Force and Navy, meets the intent of existing military requirements and should be used on new projects. Push more basic inspection responsibility back to subcontractors and vendors. Don't duplicate so much inspection.

9. The contractor must be delegated the authority to test his final product in flight. He can and must test it in the initial stages. If he doesn't, he rapidly loses his competency to design other vehicles.

10. The specifications applying to the hardware must be agreed to well in advance of contracting. The Skunk Works practice of having a specification section stating clearly which important military specification items will not knowingly be complied with and reasons therefore is highly recommended.

11. Funding a program must be timely so that the contractor doesn't have to keep running to the bank to support government projects.

12. There must be mutual trust between the military project organization and the contractor with very close cooperation and liaison on a day-to-day basis. This cuts down misunderstanding and correspondence to an absolute minimum.

13. Access by outsiders to the project and its personnel must be strictly controlled by appropriate security measures.

14. Because only a few people will be used in engineering and most other areas, ways must be provided to reward good performance by pay not based on the number of personnel supervised.

Kelly also had a 15th rule: "Starve before doing business with the damned Navy. They don't know what the hell they want and will drive you up a wall before they break either your heart or a more exposed part of your anatomy."

:D
 
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Not exactly.. it was the brainchild of the Brilliant Kurt Tank.. HAL did learn from that design.. and was directed under Kurt.
But in the end, it was entirely the brilliance of the Doctor that made the Marut possible.

Actually Kurt Tank gave a massive push to aerospace engineering in India. Before his arrival, the only thing that happened in the Hindustan Aircraft factory (belonging to the Walchand Hirachand family) in Bangalore was repair and maintenance of aircraft, followed by manufacture of an American designed wooden troop-carrying Glider (IIRC a Curtiss design) during WW2. Some assembly was also begun in that period, but actually speaking it was simply "wrench and screw-driver stuff". After the war was over, many aircraft lay abandoned at various wartime airfields scattered around the country which were no better than junk-yards. After independence when the RIAF was distributed to the new (R)IAF and (R)PAF. Hindustan Aircraft had little to do except some maintenance of aircraft, notably ex-American aircraft. The 1949 Kashmir ops brought an element of urgency to building up the IAF capability. That is when Hindustan Aircraft was nationalised and inducted in to that effort. The first major job given to HA was trying to re-surrect half-destroyed B-24 Liberator hulks lying around at various places, notably at Chakeri, near Kanpur. A somewhat credible force of Liberator Bombers was built up. Then C-47 Dakotas were reconstructed which proved to be vital during the 1962 conflict with China. It will be interesting to note that Hindustan Shipyard at Vizag was also set up by the Walchand Hirachand group as a first Indian modern ship-building facility about the same time as HA, while all other yards were British owned/controlled.

The first post independence manufacture in HAL (erstwhile Hindustan Aircraft) was licence built Gnats with TOT from Folland aircraft. Eventually HAL was the sole manufacturer of the aircraft. The first aircraft designed at HAL was the Prop driven HT-2 trainer aircraft to replace Harvards in the IAF. The designer of that aircraft aws Dr. M.W. Ghatge. Later when Dr.Kurt Tank was persuaded to set up shop in India, Dr.Ghatge assisted him on that project. So in a way Kurt Tank mentored design of Jet Aircraft in India. While the design of the Marut was brilliant, there was no suitable engine available for it; and even Kurt Tank could not come up with one. So that in short was the Marut Saga. Kurt Tank returned to Germany and Ghatge and his team at HAL then went on to design the HJT-16 Kiran trainer, the Pushpak trainer to replace Piper Cubs, the Krishak AOP aircraft to replace the Austers and a Basant Crp Duster. Post those designs, aircraft design in India went somewhat into limbo till the LCA project was started. While HAL was left to concentrate on licence manufacture of MiGs, Jaguars, Alouettes, Avros and Dorniers.
 
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Yes, that is why I used the word "participated". This was in the early 60s, and the reason I mentioned the Marut is that modern jet aricraft design is many orders of magnitude more complex than that these days.

That is so. The Marut was essentially a 'souped up' variant of WW2 designs, though there was a touch of splendid aerodynamic design involved. The avionics was only slightly improved from WW2 aircraft.
 
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He is referring to the new techniques adopted by PAF pilots for flight envelope testing on JF-17. Some of the pioneer test pilots of JF-17 went to U.K for Advance Command and Staff Course (ACSC), which included exclusive lessons on flight testing, aerodynamics etc. These pilots later implemented them in Pakistan and found the basis of JF-17 T&E unit.

Najam,

The initial cadre of the JF-17 Test pilots are all graduates of the Empire Test Pilot School's (ETPS) Fixed Wing Test Pilot Course in the UK which is run by QinetiQ, a company very heavily involved in the test flying and certification of weapons and surveillance systems for the RAF/MOD, UK.

Subsequently, PAF pilots have also gone to China for test pilot training.

I just saw Oscar's post above and agree with him.
 
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