CIA mulls targeting Pak diplomats abroad: report

[niaz]

The report starts with:

“ Well-placed diplomatic sources told Online on condition of anonymity here on Thursday that they had noticed vibes clearly indicating level of frustration and annoyance, especially at the Central Investigation Agency (CIA) upon Islamabad’s constant denial to release Davis on blanket immunity. “

Pray tell me what diplomatic sources? Anyone can make up a story and when proved baseless can claim that he was only quoting his sources. This is the usual modus operandi of unscrupulous Journalists to create sensation. IMO this story is complete fabrication hoping to exploit the deep hatred many naive Pakistanis have for the US in general. If CIA wanted to do it, they would not publicise it and we would have seen a few Pak diplomats already in detention on one charge or another.

This is not how international diplomacy works. Even when the entire US Embassy staff was held hostage in Iran, US did not detain a single Iranian diplomat. When a country is deeply annoyed and wants to retaliate, normal way is to declare certain persons “persona non grata” and ask to them leave within 24 hours or the country is asked to reduce their number of their diplomats; not what is described in this report.

We would see an Arms embargo or cutting of US aid if the diplomatic immunity is not honoured in this case.

 

[MastanKhan]

Sir,

It doesn't work like that----first of all---the diplomats and the agency have no love lost for each other---. Normally---the ambassador would not know who the agency operators are in the consulate or embassy---as the ambassador is a political employee---the agy operators are carreer employees.

Secondly---there is no parallel between this issue and the hostage taking in iran----two different issues. This threat is not a diplomatic threat----it is an inadvertant agency threat. Diplomats don't threaten like that----this message is coming from agy operators or agy sympathizers------and not from the state---.

The agency doesnot have to make it official policy----they can act against all the pak assets---simply make an annonymous phone call---as a matter of fact any retd agy personal can create headaches for pak operators overseas.

 

[SparklingCrescent]

what affect does this have on Patriotic Pakistanis living abroad? In your opinion.

 

[SMC]

ISI needs to covertly starting supporting Afghan Taliban and targeting US supply line to teach this despicable of a state (i.e. the US state) a lesson.

 

[MastanKhan]

what affect does this have on Patriotic Pakistanis living abroad? In your opinion.

Sir,

We are more concerned about what happens to pakistan---my concern would also be for the embassy personale like those who are working in the field of information gathering and nurturing assets in foreign countries----that is the biggest of the concerns---.

A young pakistasn can talk all the sh-it that he wants to talk on this board---or go out on the street and join an anti u s rally and burn flags etc---and threaten the govt---but then that is all he or she is capable of---" after a while they dissipate like foam "----.

oes any of them give a sh-it if an isi operative is executed in a foreign land in retaliation of some sortafter awhile----or some of the pak assets are neutralized 6 months or a year from now----what difference does it make to an ordinary pakistani=----nothing much----he don't give a rats arse for that----.

The Davis case has already served its purpose---isi and other iontel agy's are on the case---they are going to ask the u s for any illegal assets they have roaming AROUND IN THE COUNTRY AND ASK THEM TO LEAVE----.

MY COLLEAGUES OVER HERE HAVE NO CLUE AS TO UNDERSTAND THAT IT IS A BLESSING IN DISGUISE---God has given us a great oppurtunity. Send the illegals packing back home----in this game of espionage--the cloak and dagger stuff---things go wrong----it is just because of happenstance----Davis didnot want to shoot anyone intentionally that day----but in doing so---he put all the other 638 Davis's position in jeopardy---. Take advantage of the situation and keep a better control---.

Now due to this issue---the millitary got control of visa issuing policy once again----Mr Haqqani cannot issue visas at will and neither can Mr Zardari----. You just have to start looking at tthe benefits that we are getting out of it---.

 

[fire_in_shadows]

aisalama alaikum to all n I have a different point of view to this all from many of my other Pakistani bros .. the first thing is the so called guy Raymond Davis did not shoot those I.S.I guys in confusion or like an accident or even in self defence, to me it seems more than that, its a well planned game by CIA and USA and may be I.S.I is also involved into it, the first thing is how come Raymond Davis got to know about those 2 motor cyclisits in a very rushy area and busy traffic? secondly ofcourse someone not only identified those 2 guys to him but also give ordered him to shoot them down since operatives like Raymond Davis can not simply shoot anyone in a foreign country without a clearance or orders from his higher authorities in CIA.

And if we look it that way it was all done on purpose or at least CIA did it willingly there is no doubt about that, I do not know what spy game is behind it but I do know that whatever is happening is a preplanned thing and CIA and U.S.A is in fully control of the situation since they created it fully intentionally rather than a general point of view here or what U.S.A is showing in media that they are kind a confused or got into an unexpected trouble by this incident ..

CIA has an history of doing acts and then putting a mirror behind it to let the ppl see wat they want them to see, Al-Qaida and 9/11 is a very practical and active example of it ..

 

[fire_in_shadows]

I also got a doubt that the 2 guys who got killed where working for CIA and not I.S.I, i am not sure about it but whatever it is CIA and U.SA are fully in control of things and they pre-planned it and it wasnt an accident or act of chaos, because people who are extreme professionals like so called Raymond Davis they do not get puzzled simply by getting chased, and they do not do anything un intentional or without the orders/clearance of their handlers in CIA.

Oh and one more thing guys CIA got more hold over Media Including Pakistani Media and International Media than we can think so never ever believe where Media is taking us or which picture media is trying to show us, without a proper justification from your own mind ..

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,


See here---now all of you blood thirsty kids have changed your tune----but still you are not focused---. As I stated earlier----the Davis incident was a blessing in disguise---which in other words means----sh-it happens---. This time it happened to the agency----.

What happened in this scenario was that Davis lost his cool----his personal hatred of pakistanis / muslims popped up like a monster----in his anger and disgust---he let both the boys have it---then to demean them and humiliate the corpses further----degrade the pakistanis further---he stood over those two / robbers / pakistanis and shot each one of them in the head while they lay dead on the road---then he took pictures of them---this was his height of arrogance----this happened because he was an illegal / contracted agency operator with a carte blanche to execute----.

Technically---Davis was mentally a broken operative---later on his behaviour during the police interview showed that he had forgotten his training and lost his cool under adverse conditions----. That mindset was reflective not only of Davis----but that of his other colleagues in pakistan. His demeanour and actions were not unique----but that of the existing cadre of the operatives around him----.

Now---some are saying that ISI was in knowledge of it---possibly some of it----was it a part of it--not at all----then why did it not react at all beforehand---because it had been slammed by the PPP---Benazir and her cohorts in the world press---so the isi was lying low and taking directives from Zardari---I guess things have taken a turn----Mr Zardari may not have the same authority anyomore and isi will get a free hand one more time.

Technically---isi is in the driver's seat now----it will be operating from a position of strength one more time---the agency will have to step back and re-analyze and re-assess its situation one more time---.

I believe that the agency got carried away in its zeal---and lost focus of the bigger picture---. They have always paid a heavy price when they have forgotten to respect the locals and local culture and local intel agencies---. Once they start dealing with the prime minister and president directly---consider that moment to be the begining of their downfall---except for the time frame.

 

[fire_in_shadows]

Davis did not loose his control or kool otherwise he wouldnt be on the street still in action, you think CIA is some kind a joke? that their operative looses his temper? or got some physiological problems and they arnt aware of it? and still puts him in such kind of sensitive operation in Pakistan? the after maths of this incidence will tell that which spy game CIA played through it, but it is fully under control and it was pre-planned from CIA whatever has happened, only time will figure it out what are their real intentions behind this game and what benefit they wanted out of it , once could be the out burst of PPP gov as a result of deal with I.S.I, using this issue and getting Raymond Davis back to USA they can utilize their resources within Pakistani Media and in public to make the protests go really big like in Long March (when mushi had to go) and then a mid term elections and PMN N making a central gov all part of a deal and this one is just an act to bring it on .. its just a speculation but may be CIA is after something else but whatever they are after it will be get shown with the time and the way this case progresses but keep in mind he didnt loose control or act in anarchy he simply followed the orders and CIA knows what they have done and they are doing and I do think so that even ISI is involved into it .. cuz both of the agencies have a cooperation of extreme level due to that Kiyani guy who looks like a second general of USA and Pentagon and that is why he got his extension too ..

 

[iPhone]

Hi,


See here---now all of you blood thirsty kids have changed your tune----

you have, too. Initially you were touting his self-defense act. Ripping apart the police report, schooling them in defensive shootings, bullet in the chamber means what and pointing of the gun means death.

Now four weeks later you are pointing out Davis' racism and hatred toward Pakistanis, how low he thinks of us "uncivilized people" and how in cold blood he shot those two men and stood over their dead bodies and put another bullet in each of their heads to complete the job. So much for acting out in self defense after seeing a gun pointed at him.

That's why it's said patience is a virtue. Wait a little for the story to fully come out, with facts, findings and evidence, then you'd be in a better position to understand to some extent what really transpired. Though, being public, we'd probably never know what truly happened.

That said, I do concur that Davis operated with such impunity in Pakistan for the past couple of years that he got cocky. And that got the best of him.

 

[MastanKhan]

Sir,

That part hasn't changed----that is the world standard and there is no debate and arguments about it---.
No bullet in chamber does not mean much---that it is not a threat---it is totally absurd---pak police officer don't need to look stupid in front of the world community---the act of pointing is also beyond the point of no return----as a matter of fact just having a gun openly displayed in your hand in a public place is asking for trouble. It is because of human reflex action--the time it takes to react---that makes the difference----. That is why---there is the golden rule---. If you don't want to shoot someone----don't show a handgun in the open---and worst of all don't point it in that direction.

What are the pak police officers suggesting now----that we are in a game of russian roullette---that it is okay for a criminal to point gun at anyone just for fun without facing any consequences----.

You talk about patience now---as if you want to take the holier than thou stance---till yesterday every other person wanted his blood and wanted to hang him by the pole----my position has not changed----charge him---try him---whatever the conviction---declare him a persona non grata and let the americans take care of him.

At this time the world community----basically the world newspapers, minus american media mostly, are behind pakistan---most of the nations have suffered indignities at the hands of the agency---one way or the other---indirectly---they are cheering pakistan on---but then there is limitation to their support as well---.

So---as I stated earlier---you have have been dealt a winning hand---play the cards right---you have made your position clear---cash your chips---take the appropriate steps---isi is back in the driving seat one more time---PPP govt is on the back foot----.

Iphone----you never talked about this change of position in your post----it is a major major change---isi was hiding behind every nook and cranny in the past---and you didnot read into that---.

My man---there are many who are take a pot shot at me---and I say that is okay if it can change some of the ways that you think----but when you make it a habbit and look at trying to put me down and try to get one up on me---in time it gets be-littling. And if you see me doing that---I apologize in advance.

 

[T-Rex]

The report starts with:

“ Well-placed diplomatic sources told Online on condition of anonymity here on Thursday that they had noticed vibes clearly indicating level of frustration and annoyance, especially at the Central Investigation Agency (CIA) upon Islamabad’s constant denial to release Davis on blanket immunity. “

Pray tell me what diplomatic sources? Anyone can make up a story and when proved baseless can claim that he was only quoting his sources. This is the usual modus operandi of unscrupulous Journalists to create sensation. IMO this story is complete fabrication hoping to exploit the deep hatred many naive Pakistanis have for the US in general. If CIA wanted to do it, they would not publicise it and we would have seen a few Pak diplomats already in detention on one charge or another.

This is not how international diplomacy works. Even when the entire US Embassy staff was held hostage in Iran, US did not detain a single Iranian diplomat. When a country is deeply annoyed and wants to retaliate, normal way is to declare certain persons “persona non grata” and ask to them leave within 24 hours or the country is asked to reduce their number of their diplomats; not what is described in this report.

We would see an Arms embargo or cutting of US aid if the diplomatic immunity is not honoured in this case.

What diplomatic immunity? Many sources including The Guardian have clearly reported that this bastard is a CIA contractor. Assassins do not have diplomatic immunity.

 

[iPhone]

Sir,

That part hasn't changed----that is the world standard and there is no debate and arguments about it---.
No bullet in chamber does not mean much---that it is not a threat---it is totally absurd---pak police officer don't need to look stupid in front of the world community---the act of pointing is also beyond the point of no return----as a matter of fact just having a gun openly displayed in your hand in a public place is asking for trouble. It is because of human reflex action--the time it takes to react---that makes the difference----. That is why---there is the golden rule---. If you don't want to shoot someone---- don't show a handgun in the open---and worst of all don't point it in that direction

What are the pak police officers suggesting now----that we are in a game of russian roullette---that it is okay for a criminal to point gun at anyone just for fun without facing any consequences----..

Not to beat a dead horse but try to understand what context the police statement was issued. At the time of his arrest Davis said (and still does) he withdrew money from ATM, got in the car and was held up at gun point a short while later. Being in fear for his life, he acted in self defense and shot and killed the alleged robbers.

Now the police takes his statement and tries to corroborate it. Initial investigation is usually incomplete and later can be updated and amended. They write up a report and issue a statement, I believe two or three days later, with their initial forensics and field evidence.

What were those? Out of many, no criminal background of two alleged robbers, no witnesses to the gun being displayed or pointed by the alleged, no finger print on the trigger and the slide wasn't racked, i.e. No bullet in the chamber.

Why would the police say that, you ask? To make a point that the alleged robbers did not mean any harm to the defendant, Ray Davis, now of course, no bullet in the chamber means nothing if the gun was pointed at him but the police already covered that by mentioning there were no witnesses to the claim by the defendent that a gun was pointed
at him.

Now one of the tv network showed the First Incident Report (FIR) and it was a very well written and detailed report. they covered everything, how many bullet wounds, what part of body, entry points different parts of the back side, exit point different parts of the body front side, aproximate distance from the shooter etc

Though, shooting someone in the back doesnt automatically mean murder, every case is different, some one may just turn their back on you briefly just to turn around and shoot you back. Its the unique circumstances for each case that justifies self defense.

I believe the kind of evidence at hands and a through police
investigation, the prosecutors will have a strong case in court curbing the self defense claim by Raymond Davis.

Now as far as him being tried, found guilty and turned over as persona non grata, most likely thats what will happen.

Last but not least, I apologize if I came out earlier as taking shots at you, didn't mean to. You make good posts and analyze points well......mostly, ;-) it's granted your posts will get analyzed, scrutinized....more. But that's never kept you from speaking your mind so alright then, my man or is it my boy? lol see you around

 

[Key7]

I read four pages of this topic and i can't believe some posts which are supposed to be from some pakistanis are just ridiculous. if someone think we are living because of american support then i wonder what in the world you live. not first as pakistani but as a MUSLIM, at-least you should trust on your almighty ALLAH. i know this is not a religious thread, but WE ARE A RELIGIOUS NATION and our holy prophet (sallallahualaihi wassalam) can win the battle with only 313 muslims against thousand's non-believers and can put two stones on his stomach just for to our sake, to give us advise that's how should you live but don't beg. You think if america stop supporting pakistan we will all die because of hunger. oh come on. i think we have gone too far from our own islamic teachings.

وَمَا مِن دَابَّةٍ فِي الْأَرْضِ إِلَّا عَلَى اللَّـهِ رِزْقُهَا وَيَعْلَمُ مُسْتَقَرَّهَا وَمُسْتَوْدَعَهَا ۚ كُلٌّ فِي كِتَابٍ مُّبِينٍ . سورة هود, 6
And there is none that walks upon the earth whose sustenance does not depend on the mercy of Allah – He knows where it shall stay and where it shall be deposited; everything is in a clearly explaining Book.​

And if you still think that we are surviving here because of american support, then you're like one of our government leaders who are begging to america just for their own sake. ALHAMDULILAH, we believe in ALLAH and he is best provider of sustenance.