Churches burnt in India

[rrs]

---------------------------




@rrs
Yes i am sure rather dead sure there is no Law in Islam According to Quran which calls for death or execution of someone who converts to other faith from Islam. if you can Provide me ONE VERSE from Quran which says so ????



Rest the news above which you posted nowhere proves that the threats hurled by Taliban at the man were based on Quran Nor such action by Taliban
can ever be called supported by Quran or any saying of Prophet (PBUH)
And those who rejected Islam in the time of Prophet (PBUH) were only called Munafiqs and NOT executed.
If you can bring any example wherein a Muslim was killed or assassinated for converting at the time of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) than post it.
If NOT Than i would say kindly in the name of humanity dont try to be a hypocrate.

Instructions to Muslims about Unbelievers

Koran 9:29. Fight those who do not profess the true faith (Islam) till they pay the jiziya (poll tax) with the hand of humility.


Koran 8:12 Remember Thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the believers, I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them."

Koran 9:5 Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolators wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful." So, Rehman was no longer muslim

Koran 9:73 Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their Home: an evil fate.

Koran 4:144 Believers, do not choose the unbelievers rather than the faithful as your friends. Would you give Allah a clear proof against yourselves?

Koran 47:4 When you meet the unbelievers in the Jihad strike off their heads and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly. Then grant them their freedom or take ransom from them, until War shall lay down her burdens.

Koran 5:33-34 The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet and alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom; Save those who repent before ye overpower them. For know that Allah is Forgiving, merciful.

Koran 5:51 Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another. Whoever of you seeks their friendship shall become one of their number. Allah does not guide the wrong-doers.

Koran 5:57 Believers, do not seek the friendship of the infidels and those who were given the Book before you, who have made your religion a jest and a pasttime...

Koran 5:64 The Jews say: 'God's hand is chained.' May their own hands be chained! May they be cursed for what they say!...

Koran 9:29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last day, nor hold the forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and his messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jiziyah with willing submission. And feel themselves subdued.

Koran 9:30 The Jews call 'Uzayr-a son of God', and the Christinas call 'Christ the Son Of God'. That is a saying from their mouth; (In this) they but intimate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are decluded away from the Truth.



Dear Jana, Is this true?

 

[roadrunner]

rrs, Jana is right. There isn't anything in the Qu'ran that says to kill anyone who converts from Islam to another religion.

Your links do not talk about someone coverting from Islam btw you numbskull. They are taken out of context for those unbelievers who are engaged in warfare with Muslims, and some other circustances, definitely not all unbelievers.

 

[rrs]

rrs, Jana is right. There isn't anything in the Qu'ran that says to kill anyone who converts from Islam to another religion.

Your links do not talk about someone coverting from Islam btw you numbskull. They are taken out of context for those unbelievers who are engaged in warfare with Muslims, and some other circustances, ?definitely not all unbelievers.

Rehman converted from Islam, so he became infidel. What was done in muslim world to save his life? According to your koran he should live with dignity but he is running for his life. Is there a mising link that the rest of the world does not find or you are trying to rewrite the koran?

'You numbskull' Is this a sign of your higher intelligence?

 

[roadrunner]

Rehman converted from Islam, so he became infidel. What was done in muslim world to save his life? According to your koran he should live with dignity but he is running for his life. Is there a mising link that the rest of the world does not find or you are trying to rewrite the koran?

'You numbskull' Is this a sign of your higher intelligence?

Whatever dude. This has been answered for you. nowhere in the Qu'ran does it say to kill "infidels". You're lifting verses at will, without context. One could do this for any Holy Book. Go back to reading DanielPipes or FaithFreedom or Hindutva like a good little fascist.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

"To smite someone dead" is to kill.

"To slay" is to "to kill or destroy in a violent way"

 

[rrs]

Mahabharata is one of Hinduism's holiest texts. It gives details on the area of Bharat, or the Holy Lands to Hindus. Unfortunately Pakistan is part of them, which is why fundamentalists will not stop until they have Pakistan in their hands. Better to stop interfering in Pakistan affairs, since over 5,000 years, you've not been able to conquer it. What difference is another 5,000 going to make?[/QUOTE]

Another 5000, Holly crap, Nobody cares for another millennium. Who wants to conquer Pakistan! Btw Parts of present day Pakistan and Afghanistan were part of Maharaja Ranjit Singh's empire. So some one did conquer in the past.
Do you really think people want to conquer Pakistan?
Some politcal gurus, politically, think that creation of a new state(Pakistan)has spared India from political headache. I disagree here. Politics in Pakistan is easy runs the show. It is one man show.
Conquer Pakistan? This cracks me up, you are funny. Relax and enjoy.
This might be good excuse to get extra dough from Uncle, Uncle Sam:

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

The issue of conquering Pakistan does not arise.

Politically, it would mean taking on a whole lot of more problems than what is there in India.

From the secular standpoint, it will be more problems since Sharia is already in Pakistan and it is obvious that it will have to get extended to India, whereby every other religious groups will demand thier own religious laws and that will lead to chaos.

Militarily, capturing such a large area with varied terrain is an impossibility given the current status of the military of both the countries.

Diplomatically, the international community will not allow it.

Therefore, those who think India can capture/ conquer Pakistan and vice versa are living in a Fools' Paradise.

The current status of both the countries is ideal for complimentary growth and stability of the region.

And so should it be!

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

Therefore, those who think India can capture/ conquer Pakistan and vice versa are living in a Fools' Paradise.

The current status of both the countries is ideal for complimentary growth and stability of the region.

And so should it be!

Correct Analysis!

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

BWA officials condemn violence against Christians in Indian state
By Robert Marus
Published January 4, 2008


FALLS CHURCH, Va. (ABP) -- Baptists and other Christians in an overwhelmingly Hindu state in India fell victim to significant violence during the Christmas holiday, according to Baptist World Alliance officials.

Attacks began Dec. 23 in the state of Orissa, in northeastern India. That day, “50 to 70 Hindu radicals pulled out Pastor Junas Digal from a parked bus, paraded him on the road, all the way beating him with sticks and hands, and finally shaved his head to claim him a Hindu,” said Swarupananda Patra, general secretary of the All Orissa Baptist Churches Federation.

Patra also reported that on Christmas Eve, in the Christian-dominated town of Brahmanigaon, two Christians were shot and injured, many shops operated by Christians were destroyed, 20 churches were damaged, and three churches were razed.

A statement from the Evangelical Fellowship of India said Hindu militants attacked and set fire to at least 400 homes owned by Christians in the town, as well as six churches.

The attacks continued for several days in other parts of Orissa, leaving as many as 5,000 Christians homeless, according to Patra. He and other Christian leaders in the region accused a radical Hindu party, Vishwa Hindu Parishad or the World Hindu Council, of encouraging the attacks.

“Orissa is a place where a Baptist community of about 500,000 live, and most of them are in these areas where persecution is most intense,” wrote Bonny Resu, general secretary of the Asia Pacific Baptist Federation, in a Jan. 3 e-mail to his fellow BWA officials. “They are also among the poorest of the poor of India, which is why they are often voiceless.” Resu is a native of the nearby Indian state of Nagaland.

While Orissa has one of India’s largest Baptist communities, they comprise a small percentage of the state’s overall population of more than 30 million. The vast majority of Orissa residents are Hindu.

“If at all possible, a word of concern needs to be lodged at the international [level] to urge the government of India to do more to safeguard its religious minorities … who have become increasingly targeted and to ensure freedom of religion as enshrined in its constitution,” Resu wrote. “As the most populous democracy of the world, India owes it to the international community to show an example.”

Orissa is the state where, in 1999, Australian missionary Graham Staines and his two young sons were trapped in their car by a mob and burned to death. In 2003, a local Hindu activist was convicted of leading the gang.

BWA officials condemn violence against Christians in Indian state

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

Anti-Christian violence in India was premeditated
Saturday, January 05, 2008
By CBCI

A non-government white paper suggests that violence directed at Christians in Orissa was "pre-planned". Most of the assailants were upper caste, and Hindu nationalist parties' involvement was obvious.

Calling the recent attacks on Christians in Orissa as “a tragedy that was waiting to happen and a tragedy that could repeat itself,” the non Government white paper prepared by a fact finding team unambiguously declares, “It is beyond doubt that the violence was premeditated, pre-planned”.

”It is clear that the attackers were, in the main, upper castes non-tribals and non-Dalits, migrated from other districts of Orissa and other states, though some youth of the suppressed communities had been persuaded to join the mobs,” states the report.

“The role of the Rasthriya Swayam Sewak Sangh, Bajrang Dal, the Vishwa Hindu Parishad, the Vanvasi Kalyan Ashram and their extension organisations must be subject of an intensive investigation by the Central Bureau of Investigations,” adds the report.

Castigating the state government for condoning criminal activity of the communal forces the report says, “The Events in the Kandhamala hill district of Orissa in the Christmas Week are a story of a tragedy foretold, of political and official condoning, if not actual support to the activities criminals and political activists spreading bigotry, the ideology of hate and violence.”

Anti-Christian violence in India was premeditated | Spero News

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Baptists are the most committed of all the Christian sects and are very active in spreading the word of the Lord.

Mostly, these Baptists are allied to the American Chapter and their organisation is seamless and hence are very focussed.

The Anglican Church, which is the Church of England, has given way to the Americans.

The Baptists and Lutherans are the churches that are playing a key role in the tribal area of Bengal, Assam and the North East.

The unfortunate part is the tribals are basically very wedded to their "pagan" rites which they maintain even after being converted and this leads to problems with the Church and which is played up by the locals, who have not converted, and things go into a tailspin.

The Catholic Church, which has somewhat declined in its conversion numbers, has now started looking the other way when the pagan rites are practised.

The problems are aggravated by anti socials on both sides.

 

[Flintlock]

The current status of both the countries is ideal for complimentary growth and stability of the region.

And so should it be!

I agree. A combined India-Pakistan would be a total disaster.

 

[Vinod2070]

Pl. don't even mention this. No one wants this remotely in any country.

Live and let live. May God grant peace (if required permanent, 6 feet underground ) to the few hate filled souls who vitiate the atmosphere.

 

[Vinod2070]

The bottomline is:

Indians don't need anyone's permission to claim their own history. We are the rightful inheritors of the Pre-Islamic history of the whole subcontinent, along with all the indigenous people of the subcontinent, whichever modern country they may reside in now.

This does not depend on what specific events took place in which part of the subcontinent.

There is a difference between Modern India and the Indian civilization which is a common heritage of all people in the subcontinent. This fact is accepted by all respected historians. Anyone claiming otherwise is up to mischief (though largely self-indulging and harmless in the larger scheme of things, they are no more than internet warriors).

There has never been any confusion and flip-flop on the part of India or Indians on this aspect.

The confusion and extreme pendulum swings have been mainly only in pakistan. Some people in Pakistan feel that their current identity deos not preclude the ancient history, which I personally can empathise with. I support people who want to claim that history, though they seem to be in a (tiny?) minority.

Many people in Pakistan claim themselves to be non-indigenous, which precludes them from being part of this history, at least if they want to identify with the invaders and not the indigenous civilization.

Pakistanis choose to idolize the likes of Gazani, Ghori and Abdali (may be Timur Lame and Nadir Shah are next in line). This simply does not go with the opinions of some members here.

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

Pl. don't even mention this. No one wants this remotely in any country.

Live and let live. May God grant peace (if required permanent, 6 feet underground ) to the few hate filled souls who vitiate the atmosphere.

Shows you think that only muslims are the ones with Hate!

May GOD grant peace ... (if required by burning some again and again) to mostly hate filled souls who vitate the atmosphere.