Church Should Introspect on its Mission: Jiji Thomson

[SarthakGanguly]

Hindus, except Hindutvadis actually work towards removing inequality (and not just talk). Tell me, has RSS put out a statement that says that they prefer abolishment of caste? They will not. Because they're a product of deep roots in a dark space that is now forgotten.

Why are you hell bent on imposing Evangelical terms on Hinduism. Hinduism does not have a caste system. It has a varna system. How can caste be abolished if it does not exist?

Varna on the other hand can't be abolished. How can you abolish the diversity in society? The birth based system needs to go and RSS has repeatedly called for that, even in temples and appointment of priests.

And let us not bring in the "No True scotsman" argument here.

I remember Aamir khan saying the same thing about ISIS terrorists ... that they are not "true muslims" .... all this while claiming India is intolerant.

No true Scotsman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I am not bringing that.

True Muslims are intolerant to other faiths.
Most Muslims are not.

@Guynextdoor2 are you Muslim? Sonia ji ke waste.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Within certain "religious" elements of Hinduism yes. But religion itself is like 1% of Hinduism.

The desert faiths are literally 100% religious dogma. Literary narratives bunched together to support one absolute narrative that can never be questioned.....unlike Hinduism which has multiple streams of often conflicting yet syncretic systems...very little of it dogma, most of it truth seeking.

Therein lies the key difference.

It's not a question of ideology. More crucially it is securing social and political power using caste. That has been done extensively for over a 1000 years. In practice the life of Dalit is not what many urbanized Indians think it is. Lemme give you an example (along with that of the cook above)

- two kids in a village worked their @$$ off and got through to IIT. Not only where their neighbors socially boycotting them and asking them to stop studying, but after the results came out their house was actually stoned
- Indian railway is the only organization in the world that uses manual scavenging in stations- an abhorrent practice. You can guess who do most of that work.

 

[Mamsalaphala]

Within certain "religious" elements of Hinduism yes. But religion itself is like 1% of Hinduism.

The desert faiths are literally 100% religious dogma. Literary narratives bunched together to support one absolute narrative that can never be questioned.....unlike Hinduism which has multiple streams of often conflicting yet syncretic systems...very little of it dogma, most of it truth seeking.

Therein lies the key difference.

Rubbish. Where is there hierarchy in Hinduism ? the hierarchy exist in the society, not in the religion.

Now what do you mean Religion is 1% of Hinduism ? What is the rest of the 99% ?? Cheese and bread ?

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Why are you hell bent on imposing Evangelical terms on Hinduism. Hinduism does not have a caste system. It has a varna system. How can caste be abolished if it does not exist?

Varna on the other hand can't be abolished. How can you abolish the diversity in society? The birth based system needs to go and RSS has repeatedly called for that, even in temples and appointment of priests.


I am not bringing that.

True Muslims are intolerant to other faiths.
Most Muslims are not.

@Guynextdoor2 are you Muslim? Sonia ji ke waste.

Varna, so beautifully whitewashed by the manusmriti is called caste system. And it is based on birth, eve today. And abolishing all reference to it is what is needed.

 

[Nilgiri]

Within that community there is no hierarchy.

Uh yes there is. There are clear hierarchies in other muslim societies too. Theory and practice are quite different. My KSA arab buddy had many stories about the various pecking order of the tribes in KSA....that still exist....and I'm not even going to bring in the sunni/shia division.

Same sort of thing has happened in Christianity and Judaism. If you want examples I can give them.

Reformation and revolution is required quite external to religion for a society to progress. Hinduism will survive quite well in this process in the long run because it is constantly evolving quite fluidly, and has always been a very expansive social system....but abrahamic religions end up suffering quite badly because the are quite dogmatic and brittle.

 

[Mamsalaphala]

I am not bringing that.

True Muslims are intolerant to other faiths.
Most Muslims are not.

@Guynextdoor2 are you Muslim? Sonia ji ke waste.

WTF. Total rubbish. Abdul Kalam was a True Muslim too. So is AR Rahman. They have never exhibited any intolerance.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Why are you hell bent on imposing Evangelical terms on Hinduism. Hinduism does not have a caste system. It has a varna system. How can caste be abolished if it does not exist?

Varna on the other hand can't be abolished. How can you abolish the diversity in society? The birth based system needs to go and RSS has repeatedly called for that, even in temples and appointment of priests.


I am not bringing that.

True Muslims are intolerant to other faiths.
Most Muslims are not.

@Guynextdoor2 are you Muslim? Sonia ji ke waste.

The consequences of asking a mallu nair what he is, is usually a nice whack on the rear. . But I'll let it pass. You can call me whatever the hell you want, I'm used to it.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

It's not a question of ideology. More crucially it is securing social and political power using caste. That has been done extensively for over a 1000 years. In practice the life of Dalit is not what many urbanized Indians think it is. Lemme give you an example (along with that of the cook above)

- two kids in a village worked their @$$ off and got through to IIT. Not only where their neighbors socially boycotting them and asking them to stop studying, but after the results came out their house was actually stoned
- Indian railway is the only organization in the world that uses manual scavenging in stations- an abhorrent practice. You can guess who do most of that work.

No. @Mamsalaphala - he is a Christian evangelist. The Dalit argument is a reserve for them.

1. Both issues are accepted as social evils. Unlike desert faiths where they would probably be flaunted.
2. The manual scavenging is not forced on the people. The kids often get educated and reach higher places.

 

[Mamsalaphala]

Varna, so beautifully whitewashed by the manusmriti is called caste system. And it is based on birth, eve today. And abolishing all reference to it is what is needed.

More Rubbish. Even in Manusmriti Varan is NOT based on Birth

 

[SarthakGanguly]

WTF. Total rubbish. Abdul Kalam was a True Muslim too. So is AR Rahman. They have never exhibited any intolerance.

I have read the Qu'ran and am aware of the Sunnat. AR Rahman and Abdul Kalam were/are NOT Muslims in the true sense. They have both strongly violated the Tawheed. We had Islam classes unofficially. Trust me, I know what I am speaking about.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

No. @Mamsalaphala - he is a Christian evangelist. The Dalit argument is a reserve for them.

1. Both issues are accepted as social evils. Unlike desert faiths where they would probably be flaunted.
2. The manual scavenging is not forced on the people. The kids often get educated and reach higher places.

the scavenging is 'official employment'

 

[SarthakGanguly]

And abolishing all reference to it is what is needed.

And then you will do your ghar wapsi?

the scavenging is 'official employment'

So you want unskilled people like them to become unemployed?

 

[Mamsalaphala]

No. @Mamsalaphala - he is a Christian evangelist. The Dalit argument is a reserve for them.

1. Both issues are accepted as social evils. Unlike desert faiths where they would probably be flaunted.
2. The manual scavenging is not forced on the people. The kids often get educated and reach higher places.

Hmmmm ...

 

[Guynextdoor2]

And then you will do your ghar wapsi?


So you want unskilled people like them to become unemployed?

You bought a new printer too

 

[Nilgiri]

Rubbish. Where is there hierarchy in Hinduism ? the hierarchy exist in the society, not in the religion.

Yes very true.

Now what do you mean Religion is 1% of Hinduism ? What is the rest of the 99% ?? Cheese and bread ?

Philosophy, cultural and social norms. The connotation "religion" does not capture what Hinduism essential is, since its a geographic name to being with. There is very little dogma in Hinduism.

To me religion is essentially a supernatural/faith based dogma of some kind.