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Chinoy vs Qadri; Pakistan in the context of Its Inception,Future and In relation to Islam

sady

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This article was written on 14 Aug 2013, The recent rising debate Mumtaz Qadri vs Chinoy is indeed the fight for future of Pakistan, between a stale pseudo Islamic system or pretentious secular/liberal mimicry of western civilization. The answer I think lies in between, the true spirit of Pakistan.


It has been sixty five years, a long time since we achieved our ‘freedom’. A sufficient amount of time for people to forget , forgive and move on. Eyes and hearts that saw and felt the horrors have either extinguished or dulled. Arms that carried once their loved ones to dust, have now become part of the same. The collective dream of liberation never materialized for some and for those whom it did find it very painful to recall. The devil of passing time has blurred the lines and probably tricked our minds in believing a more humane and a less tragic side of the story or it has calloused us up, unable to feel the gravity of what was lost and price of what was won.

It was customary, around this time of year for our TV screens to show black and white assortment of the tragic scenes from partition. Glimpses from those times kept the story of the people known and alive. Lately some liberal media big wig has thought it to be too ‘Gory’ for our TV screens. This age of ‘friendship’ ,’free borders’, ’Aman ki Asha’ and ‘New Dawn’ does not spare any room for old prejudices and vendettas .

‘Two Nation Theory’ has drowned in the Bay of Bengal! Said once the triumphant Prime Minister of India .Not a word more is needed to elaborate the hatred an Indian Hindu has for this idea. The Idea that split the ‘Bharat Mata’ into two is a blow that a Hindu will never forget. Islamic scholars have not been kind to this idea either. Nationalism is to them a Satan’s creation to split Muslim Ummah.

The fact, however remains that scores of people have sacrificed everything for this idea, often more than what a human mind can comprehend or understand. Fathers have bore the pain of seeing their daughters raped, mothers have collected the remains of their sons, sons have unhooked their fathers from the bloodied point of spears and all have witnessed humanity go to down to pure monstrosity. We have heard about brave Mujahids destroying tanks with bombs strapped across their chests and likes of Captain Sher Khan striding and invoking fear right into enemy’s hearts. Even now in these perilous times gallant sons , from the snow laden peaks at North to burning deserts in South to dry scorched Tribal areas in west, are busy adding glory to this land with their sweat and blood. The question then arises is that all this pain, sacrifice and suffering for nothing? All in vain and down the history’s drain?

To answer these questions and do some justice with the martyrs of our nation, we need to go down the timeline and recall why the creation of Pakistan was the single most turning event in life of an ordinary Muslim of Indian subcontinent. Have we forgotten the tyranny Bengali Muslims had to go through under Hindu domination before the division of Bengal? Were they not made to pay and pray for Durga Maa? Don’t we remember the Congress rule under 1935 act? The persecution and humiliation Muslims went through was only just a small demonstration of what was to come as British leave India. Today, the secular India portrays itself as the champion of democracy and land of diverse cultures. Just go few years down the memory lane and you will find the true face of this champion in the shapes of Gujrat massacres of 2002, destruction of Babri Masjid 1992, decades of Human rights violations in Kashmir and blood bath in Samjhota Express. Modern India can and will never denounce the rancid and rotten foundations of prejudice and hatred it was built on. This ugly face of India has and will forever remind Muslims of their true place in Indian society. Even in the mainstream media and film industry Muslims are portrayed nothing more than thugs, Mafia dons and the cockroaches gnawing at the Indian society. Is this the place our intellectuals and religious scholars prefer over than the country we are living in right now? Can we deny the planned culling of Muslims in Gujrat? Or do we like to dwell in fools thinking that we can be a part of the progress of India by pleasing her hawks and opening our arms wide open to them, so much so that we forget our own identity, interests and self respect?

It is true Pakistan was made in the name of Islam and till date we don’t have a system of government based on Shariat. There is a penal code that is still in larger extent a remnant of British India. Parliament is debated as being supreme though the name is ‘Islamic Republic of Pakistan’. There are short comings and flaws, no doubt, but is there any alternative? Khilafat and Shariat is not a simple process to implement in modern times. No matter how much we desire Islam to rule every aspect of our lives, there is no turning away from the fact that we are not the Muslims we used to be. Spiritually, morally and politically Muslims are today in the annals of decadence. Even from the days of Khulfa e Rashideen troubles regarding this system were evident . Barring years of Khulfa e Rashideen’s rule and few others, Khilafat in the history of Islam has been nothing but an amalgam of treachery, brothers killing brothers, monarchy and case of who is a stronger General. There was nothing Islamic about nor was it according the system Holy Prophet (pbuh) left for the Muslims. Islamic scholars though very fond of preaching and criticizing, have always come short in addressing the problems regarding the practicality of Khilafat in modern times and introducing a workable formula that encompasses all sectarian divides. Once we dissect modern democratic system of government we can well observe that it is more in tune with what Holy Prophet(pbuh) ordained than the traditional Khilafat system we had over the centuries. Several modifications in the structure of this modern form of government and we can have an answer to our long awaited wishes. We do not need to conform to Western idea of democracy but to evolve our own based on Shariah and injunctions laid down by Holy Prophet Muhammad(pbuh).

Having gone through the Islamic history and its association with khilafat, where does Pakistan stand in modern times in context to Islam and its future is a question in every Pakistani’s mind. Not a single country in the world right now can pride itself of being created in the name of Islam. There may not be shariat in this land but every heart here beats for Islam, let it be the Muslims of Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan, Bosnia or Kashmir Pakistanis have always answered the calls of their brethren. Muslim scholars target Pakistani nationalism. Its founders and everything it stands for. The fact however is that the idea of Nationalism for a Pakistani is nothing more than a Islamic brotherhood .The notion of ‘Pakistan first’ is actually very much against the basis of Pakistan itself. Being a Pakistani is nothing like being an Arab or Persian or Kurd or Asian. It is about being follower of Islam that binds a Punjabi, Pathan, Balochi, Sindhi, Kashmiri or for that matter any muslim in this world on basis of his belief. Was this not the concept behind Khilafat?.

Even if the founders intended it to be an economically independent state for Muslims of sub continent so that they can practice Islam without a Hindu Banya lurking over them and may not have exactly intended it to become an Islamic Shariah state, there is no bar for us to take Pakistan to somewhere ahead of what was initially planned and to evolve it into a Shariah state. Pakistan is a fortress of Islam that is destined to grow and be the starting point of what will one day be a magnificent Khilafat consisting of all the Muslims in the world, an Islamic democracy based solely on beliefs and faith, where ethnicity, nationality, colour, creed, tribe and association will serve only for identity purposes as ordained in Quran.

At the end , let us remember today on 14th August ,all those who perished in the way of achieving this dream and never lived to see it .let us take this dream forward from its inception to its greatness so that not only we leave a mark in the history of Subcontinent but forge ahead a new era and future for Muslims of this region and the world.
 
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I agree there is a reality between chinoy and qadri.... where 99% of pakistans silent population lives....that of moderate islam...
 
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Pakistan can be an Islamic state and also a true republic. The problem is not a conflict between the two, in my opinion. The problem has been a breakdown in law and order. I do not say that in any way, as derogatory of Pakistan. To the contrary, I say that because so many Pakistani posters here have expressed that very thing. Whether it is dealing with terrorism or the danger to women in some areas of the country or the assassination of political leaders and abuse of blasphemy laws. The problem seems to me to be much more one of law and order, corruption in the police and courts, rendering them ineffective, dire economic conditions for the working class, a lack of good K-12 education. I just don't see it as primarily one of competing ideas of Islamic vision vs. secular vision for the country. Just one outsider's view...
 
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I agree there is a reality between chinoy and qadri.... where 99% of pakistans silent population lives....that of moderate islam...
The most incorrect assumption we take. Religious extremists, bigots or plain terrorists comprise anywhere between 20-30% of Pakistan's population. These are people that will kill in the name of religion without thinking twice and investigating a claim made on the basis of religion. Some 50-60% are those that have a mixture of both extreme and calm views of religion and can go either way with good speeches and the promise of roti kapra makan or spiritual salvation. There are 5-10% in Pakistan who arent really bothered by religion or dont take it as such an extreme ideology.
 
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u forgot the libral fascists.... who hate religion.....
well not every religion just islam....

they also hate Pakistan caz they think its strong militarily...
and they also hate our military...

2% of populace....

even at peak of insurgency I don't think Taliban had more than a million sympathizers out of 180 million population...
that's not 30% by the way...

I think there are more libral prestitutes than fundamentalist bas**ds amongst us...
 
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To answer these questions and do some justice with the martyrs of our nation, we need to go down the timeline and recall why the creation of Pakistan was the single most turning event in life of an ordinary Muslim of Indian subcontinent. Have we forgotten the tyranny Bengali Muslims had to go through under Hindu domination before the division of Bengal? Were they not made to pay and pray for Durga Maa? Don’t we remember the Congress rule under 1935 act? The persecution and humiliation Muslims went through was only just a small demonstration of what was to come as British leave India. Today, the secular India portrays itself as the champion of democracy and land of diverse cultures. Just go few years down the memory lane and you will find the true face of this champion in the shapes of Gujrat massacres of 2002, destruction of Babri Masjid 1992, decades of Human rights violations in Kashmir and blood bath in Samjhota Express. Modern India can and will never denounce the rancid and rotten foundations of prejudice and hatred it was built on. This ugly face of India has and will forever remind Muslims of their true place in Indian society. Even in the mainstream media and film industry Muslims are portrayed nothing more than thugs, Mafia dons and the cockroaches gnawing at the Indian society. Is this the place our intellectuals and religious scholars prefer over than the country we are living in right now? Can we deny the planned culling of Muslims in Gujrat? Or do we like to dwell in fools thinking that we can be a part of the progress of India by pleasing her hawks and opening our arms wide open to them, so much so that we forget our own identity, interests and self respect?

All of these vindicate the two-nation theory. Muslims of the sub-continent knew very well from experience that their rights would not be protected in any system of government and any guarantees given to them would turn out to be futile and worthless at best. We have to know our roots and it is very important that we tell our new generations true meanings of Pakistan. This country could not have been possible in this world without extreme sacrifices of millions of Muslims. It was the largest mass migration in human history. If anybody advises us to forget our history, I think this is a very misguided advice.

However it is very important to realize that none of our forefathers ever wanted Pakistan to be a theocratic state where strict interpretations of Islam would be a basis for legal code. In fact most the famous Muslim clerics of that time were united in their opposition to Pakistan and wanted a single country for both Muslims and Hindus. Most of the leaders in Pakistan movement were highly educated and truly moderate Muslims who had realized that there would be no protection for the rights of Muslims in United India. Their vision for the nation was a forward looking, truly moderate, civilized and a democratic society for Muslims where rights of minorities would also be given a complete protection as emphasized by Quaid-e-Azam in several of his speeches.

We see the same dichotomy of clerics vs forward looking people in Qadri case. Most moderate muslims believe that our prophet always believed in forgiveness. His life is totally documented with historical accuracy. Again and again, whenever a situation arose where he defeated his enemies, he forgave them despite the fact that he had been socially, physically and mentally tortured and ill treated by his enemies when he was living among them. There are so many occasions when he forgave his sworn enemies and all of those occasions are an example for Muslims to follow. No sane Muslim would hurt anyone else in his right senses while saying that he is following our prophet's true path. Hardliner and poorly educated muslims on the other hand cite fatwas from Imams who canonized the religion several centuries after the death of our prophet and are quick to ignore the whole life of our prophet which is replete with life-touching examples of forgiveness and love for human beings.

If we want to become a great country, we will have to make sure that we follow the enlightened path of moderate Islam as actually practiced by our prophet and in its true spirit. It is also important to reform our education system so that people are more open minded when it comes to extreme and strict interpretations of religion and are able to think about such issues more objectively on their own after putting the facts together rather than following fatwas of some centuries old theologians.
 
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I agree there is a reality between chinoy and qadri.... where 99% of pakistans silent population lives....that of moderate islam...
Yes the exact premise of the post.

All of these vindicate the two-nation theory. Muslims of the sub-continent knew very well from experience that their rights would not be protected in any system of government and any guarantees given to them would turn out to be futile and worthless at best. We have to know our roots and it is very important that we tell our new generations true meanings of Pakistan. This country could not have been possible in this world without extreme sacrifices of millions of Muslims. It was the largest mass migration in human history. If anybody advises us to forget our history, I think this is a very misguided advice.

However it is very important to realize that none of our forefathers ever wanted Pakistan to be a theocratic state where strict interpretations of Islam would be a basis for legal code. In fact most the famous Muslim clerics of that time were united in their opposition to Pakistan and wanted a single country for both Muslims and Hindus. Most of the leaders in Pakistan movement were highly educated and truly moderate Muslims who had realized that there would be no protection for the rights of Muslims in United India. Their vision for the nation was a forward looking, truly moderate, civilized and a democratic society for Muslims where rights of minorities would also be given a complete protection as emphasized by Quaid-e-Azam in several of his speeches.

We see the same dichotomy of clerics vs forward looking people in Qadri case. Most moderate muslims believe that our prophet always believed in forgiveness. His life is totally documented with historical accuracy. Again and again, whenever a situation arose where he defeated his enemies, he forgave them despite the fact that he had been socially, physically and mentally tortured and ill treated by his enemies when he was living among them. There are so many occasions when he forgave his sworn enemies and all of those occasions are an example for Muslims to follow. No sane Muslim would hurt anyone else in his right senses while saying that he is following our prophet's true path. Hardliner and poorly educated muslims on the other hand cite fatwas from Imams who canonized the religion several centuries after the death of our prophet and are quick to ignore the whole life of our prophet which is replete with life-touching examples of forgiveness and love for human beings.

If we want to become a great country, we will have to make sure that we follow the enlightened path of moderate Islam as actually practiced by our Prophet(SAW)and in its true spirit. It is also important to reform our education system so that people are more open minded when it comes to extreme and strict interpretations of religion and are able to think about such issues more objectively on their own after putting the facts together rather than following fatwas of some centuries old theologians.
I think it is about time there is a third voice in Pakistan who are progressive as well as having unassailable link to Islamic roots of Pakistan. It is impossible I think in current state of world affairs to ask for 'real' Shariat in Pakistan, the essence of first state of Islam 'Madina' where non muslims were treated with justice and their rights safeguarded. Where brotherhood ,peace, love and welfare were prime.I do believe we will have to settle with more robust CII with more progressive and enlighted ulema rather than the old archaic structures that we have right now, till we are strong enough to implement Shariah in entirety. We need to understand our education needs and mix up the curriculum with suitable mix.
 
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Pakistan can be an Islamic state and also a true republic. The problem is not a conflict between the two, in my opinion. The problem has been a breakdown in law and order. I do not say that in any way, as derogatory of Pakistan. To the contrary, I say that because so many Pakistani posters here have expressed that very thing. Whether it is dealing with terrorism or the danger to women in some areas of the country or the assassination of political leaders and abuse of blasphemy laws. The problem seems to me to be much more one of law and order, corruption in the police and courts, rendering them ineffective, dire economic conditions for the working class, a lack of good K-12 education. I just don't see it as primarily one of competing ideas of Islamic vision vs. secular vision for the country. Just one outsider's view...

The present breakdown of law and order, and the chronically abysmal social development are symptoms, Sir, and not the disease. The root causes can be traced right back to the Objectives Resolution, and the subsequent laws and actions based upon that flawed foundation.
 
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The present breakdown of law and order, and the chronically abysmal social development are symptoms, Sir, and not the disease. The root causes can be traced right back to the Objectives Resolution, and the subsequent laws and actions based upon that flawed foundation.
Not really my fight, but our of curiosity, you would have preferred a purely secular constitutional order in the Western sense?
 
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Not my fight any longer. :D

We can discuss it further, but first I would like to know your views on the Objectives Resolution if you have read it. What do you think?

Objectives Resolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I had not heard of it before so I looked it up in Wiki myself. :tup: This is just my brief analysis and is certainly not a full proof model as there are plenty of exceptions to it but bear with me.

My only problem with a purely secular approach is this; I don't think such a model is a good fit for Pakistan, or for that matter, for most Muslim nations of south-west Asia. The reason is that the Islamic world has never experienced the massive secularizing revolution that was the western Enlightenment and it's culmination in the French Revolution and so when many countries in the Muslim world that had been colonies, finally achieved their independence after WW2, many of their leaders adopted Western secular models of government that were in conflict with societies that had never been secular. I think that has been the core of political crisis and chaos in so much of the Muslim world that falls into that category. Those secular governments have lurched from chaos to coups for decades. The more traditional monarchies have been much more stable. Not perfect, not ideal, but more stable. The Shah of Iran was an exception, not just because of his Anglo-American backing, but because he personally, was far too secular and so fomented the more radical Islamic movement that replaced him. I just think a model that draws as much as possible on a country's internal traditions, while still relying on popular support and one that still protects rights and ensures law and order, is best. For example, I thought it was a mistake to insist on trying to turn post Taliban, Afghanistan into some sort of western democracy. I think a better model would have been a constitutional monarchy, with the king restored, a tribal upper house, and a popularly elected lower house, with an Islamic constitution that would have muted some of the Taliban's criticism.


An incomplete and rambling answer, for sure. You won't hurt my feelings, btw, as I know my views may be unrealistic and uninformed as a westerner who has never even been to Pakistan.
 
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I had not heard of it before so I looked it up in Wiki myself. :tup: This is just my brief analysis and is certainly not a full proof model as there are plenty of exceptions to it but bear with me.

My only problem with a purely secular approach is this; I don't think such a model is a good fit for Pakistan, or for that matter, for most Muslim nations of south-west Asia. The reason is that the Islamic world has never experienced the massive secularizing revolution that was the western Enlightenment and it's culmination in the French Revolution and so when many countries in the Muslim world that had been colonies, finally achieved their independence after WW2, many of their leaders adopted Western secular models of government that were in conflict with societies that had never been secular. I think that has been the core of political crisis and chaos in so much of the Muslim world that falls into that category. Those secular governments have lurched from chaos to coups for decades. The more traditional monarchies have been much more stable. Not perfect, not ideal, but more stable. The Shah of Iran was an exception, not just because of his Anglo-American backing, but because he personally, was far too secular and so fomented the more radical Islamic movement that replaced him. I just think a model that draws as much as possible on a country's internal traditions, while still relying on popular support and one that still protects rights and ensures law and order, is best. For example, I thought it was a mistake to insist on trying to turn post Taliban, Afghanistan into some sort of western democracy. I think a better model would have been a constitutional monarchy, with the king restored, a tribal upper house, and a popularly elected lower house, with an Islamic constitution that would have muted some of the Taliban's criticism.


An incomplete and rambling answer, for sure. You won't hurt my feelings, btw, as I know my views may be unrealistic and uninformed as a westerner who has never even been to Pakistan.

Thank you for your thoughts, which are about how the Islamic World has issues with modern secular forms of governance. A more pertinent question to ask is whether the stipulations of the Objectives Resolution can be implemented in a manner consistent with the ideals professed for Pakistan? Therein lies the Gordian Knot.
 
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Thank you for your thoughts, which are about how the Islamic World has issues with modern secular forms of governance. A more pertinent question to ask is whether the stipulations of the Objectives Resolution can be implemented in a manner consistent with the ideals professed for Pakistan? Therein lies the Gordian Knot.
I guess I could have been more specific to that, but that is more detailed than I would be able to answer, so I just stuck to a defence of the idea in general, that the Objectives Resolution was intended to address.
 
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I guess I could have been more specific to that, but that is more detailed than I would be able to answer, so I just stuck to a defence of the idea in general, that the Objectives Resolution was intended to address.

The intentions of the OR may be professed to be highly noble, but the reality is just as ignominious in its far reaching adverse consequences. You may wish to reconsider your defense of the indefensible, given that there is simply no way to implement what it demands, leaving Pakistan confused, hurt and lost.
 
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