Chinese warships force Indian submarine to surface in Gulf of Aden

[metalfalcon]

I think the Issue of Piracy should be debated in UNO and just like UN peace keeping Force a Combined Task Force (CTF) must be made of many Nations and They should be given the Mandate to Police Somali waters and get rid of Pirates UNDER THE FLAG OF UNO.

In this way CHINA and India wont be "Locking their Horns" anymore but they will be co-operating with each other for Common cause.

 

[iamunique]

"New Delhi: Over-emphasis on indigenous work is hurting India's readiness for war. As India's vital submarine arm struggles with dangerously low numbers, a top-end submarine has been taken out of the fleet for a repair programme.

The shocking part is that the repair schedule will last 10 years. Such upgrades have previously been done overseas in two years. One could compare this to a submarine being laid comatose, at least in the case of the INS Sindhukirti, a frontline Kilo class attack submarine of the Indian Navy.

It's been in dry dock at Vizag for a refit programme for close to five years now. It seems that Hindustan Shipyards, the government-owned contractor with little experience in submarine upgrades, will take at least another five years before the submarine can be put to water again.


Unavailable to the submarine-starved Navy for 10 of the 30 years of its useful life, the Sindhukirti is as good as a write off. "How viable is a surgery which requires a healthy patient to be in a hospital bed for one-third of his life? That is the approximate analogy for the mid-life upgrade for this submarine INS Sindhukirti, the Dry Dock Queen. Four submarines are stuck in such protracted upgrades. Not surprisingly, just nobody is accountable," said our defence correspondent.

Russia took just two years each to upgrade six similar Kilo class submarines for the Indian Navy. The government insists that it is now building national capability with inhouse upgrades. "That kind of expertise did not exist in India before and this is for the first time that we are trying it out here. Instead of sending them to Russia all the way, this one is being offloaded to Hindustan Shipyards. There are some problems in their procurement procedures. It takes a little longer than is expected," said Chief of Naval Staff, Admiral Suresh Mehta.

What this trade-off on time does to India's military readiness is anybody's guess. It took a recent CAG report to blow the lid of the Indian Navy's worst kept secret: that the vital submarine arm faces a crisis of numbers. The shocking revelations of the report were:

Only seven of India's 16 submarines are available for combat at any time.
10 of these 16 ageing submarines will be due for phase-out by 2012.

To maintain current numbers, one submarine needs to be inducted every two years but there's been no addition since 2001.

India's only submarine-making facility in Mumbai was kept idle for 12 years.

The gaping hole in India's naval capability is showing."

Are We Battle Ready: Submarine repair takes forever .

Nice to see that inspite of news to the contrary (as reported above), my brothers are still overly optimistic about our country's naval capabilities. Anyway my take on the main story of this thread:
1)With only 7 subs operational at any time, it is unlikely that this was an indian navy sub.
2)If it was, then it explains why the captain surfaced the sub -- he didn't want the IN to lose one of it's 'only 7 subs operational at any time' subs!

 

[kenchabhai]

Some of you people apparently cannot read.

Assuming that this is accurate, China had already detected a submarine shadowing its warships as it passed through the Indian Ocean and discovered those same patterns in the Gulf of Aden. Sounds to me like the PLAN heard them Indian rust buckets from a planet away.

The simple fact that the submarine was discovered was pretty embarrasing to say the least. Compare that the 2006 Kitty Hawk incident when the Chinese sub was completely undetected until it decided to reveal itself within a mere 5 miles to the CV.

And when a Submarine is forced to surface, you can damn well bet that it's considered dead meat.

Assuming the incident did take place.

IN's kilo calls subs are armed with Klub AShms with a 220km range. Chinese warships are armed with torpedos with a max range of ~30km.

It was detected when it tried to jam the sonars of the 2 most advanced Chinese warships, this must have resulted in a quite a lot of brown stains on the otherwise pristine white uniform of PLAN sailors aboard the ship.

No wonder the captain panicked and was ready to send the chopper. IN, it appears was in no mood to prolong the standoff and after collecting the valuable ELINT data left the scene.

"While officers in the Indian Navy have acknowledged that track was being kept of the Chinese warships that transited from the Malacca Straits to Somalia waters, they denied that the India sub was forced to surface during the 'encounter'.
"It is a routine procedure. We do keep track of warships transiting near Indian waters through all means possible. However, the reports of the Indian submarine having surfaced are incorrect," a senior Navy Officer said. "

 

[TOPGUN]

yea metal sir am back , it was good episode . the topic was " transperancy in world "


ajpirzada ji , there nothing to accept . the facts are not showing any kind of success to china , and our politics are not willing to show down any country . we work like a mature not like kido ........

TOPGUN sir , yea very funny news .....

metal sir , what can i reply to you sir . you said true Oceans are full of mysteries. no one here knows what happen exactly .

Yes it is isn't ! don't be bashful laugh a-d if it was pakistani news u and your boys would be all over it even after it was played out but this forsure is FUNNY NEWS

 

[jeypore]

Chinese navy sees off Indian sub

Chinese warships sent to fight piracy in waters off Somalia were stalked by an Indian attack submarine and the two sides became locked in a tense standoff for at least half an hour, mainland media reported yesterday.

After rounds of manoeuvring during which both sides tried to test for weaknesses in the other's sonar system, the two Chinese warships managed to force the Indian submarine to surface. The Indian vessel left without further confrontation.

The incident was reported by Qingdao Chenbao yesterday and was widely carried by major mainland websites such as Sina.com and QQ. Both Beijing and New Delhi were silent about the matter.

This is the first reported military standoff between China and India since a bitter border war in 1962.

The incident took place on January 15 in waters near the Bab Al-Mandab Strait, which separates Yemen and Djibouti, at the western end of the Gulf of Aden. The Chinese destroyers had picked up an unidentified submarine on their sonar, the report said.

The Chinese navy soon identified it as a 70-metre-long vessel armed with 20 torpedoes. Although the report did not directly specify the model, it provided a file photo of a Kilo-class submarine belonging to the Indian navy, which fit the description.

The submarine tried to evade the Chinese warships by diving deeper. But the warships continued the chase.

The report said the Chinese ships sent an anti-submarine helicopter to help track the submarine, which had tried to jam the Chinese warships' sonar system.

But the two destroyers eventually cornered the submarine and forced it to surface. The report said the submarine had been trailing the Chinese ships since they had entered the Indian Ocean on the way to Somalia.

It said that at one point the Chinese commander even ordered the helicopter to have its anti-submarine torpedoes ready.

The Indian submarine is believed to have been collecting electronic signals and sonar data from the Chinese warships. Such information would be crucial in naval conflicts.

The two destroyers China sent to Somalia are among its most advanced warships. One of the destroyers, Haikou, was commissioned in 2005.

It is rare for mainland media to report such a close encounter between the Chinese navy and foreign warships. Although deemed a provocative and unfriendly gesture, it was not unusual for one country to send submarines to collect other navies' information.

In 2006, a Chinese submarine was detected stalking the US aircraft carrier Kitty Hawk near the Japanese island of Okinawa. The Chinese submarine eventually surfaced close to the US battle group.

Chinese Military News Blog ????

SCMP.com|Online Asia News| News from Indonesia,Thailand,Korea, rest of Asia and across the globe

This does not contribute to further positive development.

There is lots of bravado and chest thumping on this thread regarding this article, but the jist of it is India future plans to dominate the Indian Ocean arena proves that India is doing it's deligence to accomplishing there goal. Case in point:

But the two destroyers eventually cornered the submarine and forced it to surface. The report said the submarine had been trailing the Chinese ships since they had entered the Indian Ocean on the way to Somalia.

The India submarine was well aware from the point of entrie of the chinese vessel and was gathering critical sonar data.

 

[jeypore]

India denies Chinese reports on submarines

Statesman News Service
NEW DELHI, Feb. 4: India today refuted a report that Indian Navy submarines were tracking Chinese warships in the waters off Somalia in the Gulf of Aden where these warships had been sent to fight piracy.
“There was no such tracking and none of our submarines surfaced in the Gulf on the day that the Chinese media reported that there had been a standoff between the Indian submarine and the Chinese warship. If India had wanted, it could have tracked these warships from the Straits of Malacca and not necessarily in the Gulf as stated in the media reports,” highly placed defence ministry sources said.
In the first reported military standoff between the two countries since the 1962 Sino-Indian border conflict, the Chinese media said Chinese destroyers had picked up an unidentified submarine on their sonar.
“The Chinese navy soon identified it as a 70-metre long vessel armed with 20 torpedoes. Although the report did not directly specify the model, it provided a file photo of a Kilo-class submarine belonging to the Indian navy, which fit the description,” the report said.
Defence ministry sources said that “one cannot merely reach such conclusions and when no submarine had surfaced in the area referred to in the report, one cannot just infer as to what class the submarine belonged and to which country.”
The Chinese newspaper said the incident took place on 15 January but India said no Indian submarine had surfaced in the area. It added that deployment patterns too were not discussed.
The report said the two destroyers China sent to Somalia are among its most advanced warships. One of the destroyers, Haikou, was commissioned in 2005.
In 2006, a Chinese submarine was detected stalking the US aircraft carrier Kitty Hawk near the Japanese island of Okinawa. The Chinese submarine eventually surfaced close to the US battle group
The Statesman

 

[Fennecus]

Lots of cyber-muscle flexing by Indian members here, Lol.

I will not waste my time if you people don't know what the hell is going on, especally considering the very nature of the "incident" is disputed.

 

[badguy2000]

well, according to the report, PLAN succeeded in using acitve sonar to "lock" IN sub before the IN sub got closely enough to "lock" PLAN warships

In such kind of game, when subs is detected by "active sonar",it always means that surface warships have accurately lock the subs and subs lose the game ,because warship can destroy the locked subs anytime.

 

[badguy2000]

different from the event, US navy's AC group didn't detected PLAN sub until PLAN sub was only 5 mile away

 

[badguy2000]

Assuming the incident did take place.

IN's kilo calls subs are armed with Klub AShms with a 220km range. Chinese warships are armed with torpedos with a max range of ~30km.

It was detected when it tried to jam the sonars of the 2 most advanced Chinese warships, this must have resulted in a quite a lot of brown stains on the otherwise pristine white uniform of PLAN sailors aboard the ship.

No wonder the captain panicked and was ready to send the chopper. IN, it appears was in no mood to prolong the standoff and after collecting the valuable ELINT data left the scene.

well,
1.the strike-range of KIlo is not decided not only by the range of its "Klub" ASHM,but also by the range of its "eye-sight'. if subs are "short-sighted", the long range of its weapons has no meaning.

when crusing under the seaface,subs are hard to "see" what is going on beyond vison range,if they have no enough support such as datalink,satellite ,detecting-planes......etc.
I don't believe that India navy has solved the problem of subs' "short-sight".

2.why is China so eager to deploy its own global statellite postion system-"compass"?
it is Because "compass" can greatly cure PLAN sub's "short-sight".
With the support from "compass " and “TDRSS”， PLAN subs can receive the real-time data of evemy' accurate postion even when they are crusing underwater.

3.Now,only USA,Russia ,EU,Japan,and CHina have "TDRSS". India has not yet.
And only USA has a finished "GPS". Russia's "GLONASS" is crippled. CHina's "Compass" won't be finished until 2011. EU's “Galileo ” is still a "paper-work" and has not any satellite . India even has no a "paper-work".

4. Either "TDRSS" or " satellite postion system" like "GPS" need support of powerful industry base and huge fund.
In forseeable future, I think only three guys can easily afford the two toys,who are USA,EU and CHina.
Russia has tech and is short of money,becacue even maintaining "TDRSS" and "GLONASS" need lots of money.
As for India, India has neither tech nor moeny enough.

 

[Fennecus]

oooh. How scary.

Why can't we analyze the situation objectively insted of making useless empty threats and one-upmanship?

Friend, that was no threat.

Every action produces a consequence. Not too long after the Kitty Hawk incident, the USA deployed F-22 Raptors to Kadena air force base.

I thought India wanted to become a permanent member of the UNSC? Really blew it there.

 

[A-D]

well,
1.the strike-range of KIlo is not decided not only by the range of its "Klub" ASHM,but also by the range of its "eye-sight'. if subs are "short-sighted", the long range of its weapons has no meaning.

when crusing under the seaface,subs are hard to "see" what is going on beyond vison range,if they have no enough support such as datalink,satellite ,detecting-planes......etc.
I don't believe that India navy has solved the problem of subs' "short-sight".

2.why is China so eager to deploy its own global statellite postion system-"compass"?
it is Because "compass" can greatly cure PLAN sub's "short-sight".
With the support from "compass " and “TDRSS”， PLAN subs can receive the real-time data of evemy' accurate postion even when they are crusing underwater.

3.Now,only USA,Russia ,EU,Japan,and CHina have "TDRSS". India has not yet.
And only USA has a finished "GPS". Russia's "GLONASS" is crippled. CHina's "Compass" won't be finished until 2011. EU's “Galileo ” is still a "paper-work" and has not any satellite . India even has no a "paper-work".

4. Either "TDRSS" or " satellite postion system" like "GPS" need support of powerful industry base and huge fund.
In forseeable future, I think only three guys can easily afford the two toys,who are USA,EU and CHina.
Russia has tech and is short of money,becacue even maintaining "TDRSS" and "GLONASS" need lots of money.
As for India, India has neither tech nor moeny enough.

Friend, that was no threat.

Every action produces a consequence. Not too long after the Kitty Hawk incident, the USA deployed F-22 Raptors to Kadena air force base.

I thought India wanted to become a permanent member of the UNSC? Really blew it there.

i think we was talking here about IN sub which trailed the 2 chinese warships thousands of miles.

badguy letme tell you we are currently using the american GPS stallite , i was reading somewhere but didnt get the link . in fail result of brahmos there was one reason as well . the reason was US satelitte blink at the last stage of test .
i will try my best to find the article.

yea if you dont want our vote against China on taiwan issue , good luck .

 

[badguy2000]

i think we was talking here about IN sub which trailed the 2 chinese warships thousands of miles.

badguy letme tell you we are currently using the american GPS stallite , i was reading somewhere but didnt get the link . in fail result of brahmos there was one reason as well . the reason was US satelitte blink at the last stage of test .
i will try my best to find the article.

yea if you dont want our vote against China on taiwan issue , good luck .

1.only GPS is not enogh to provide global real-time supervision.

GPS+TDRSS the the base of real time global datalink.
India has no TDRSS yet now.

2.USA's GPS closes its door to India ,as for military purpose such real-time datalink.


3.In a real conflict, the dependence on foreigner's GPS or TDRSS is dangerous weankness for a independent power like USA,RUssia or CHina.
If India still has a ambition to be independent world power, it has to set up its own GPS+TRRSS.

 

[Fennecus]

i think we was talking here about IN sub which trailed the 2 chinese warships thousands of miles.

badguy letme tell you we are currently using the american GPS stallite , i was reading somewhere but didnt get the link . in fail result of brahmos there was one reason as well . the reason was US satelitte blink at the last stage of test .
i will try my best to find the article.

yea if you dont want our vote against China on taiwan issue , good luck .

Which had been detected all along.

India does not recognize Taiwan, nor would India's vote in the U.N. matter regarding any issue on Taiwan. China, on the other hand, has leverage in the SC over whether or not India can be become a permanent council member.

 

[badguy2000]

china has much more leavages on international issue than India has.

N.Korea,Iran, Sudan. US T-bond,RMB' exchange.Cuba....etc. almost all international issue would not be solved without the cooperation of CHina.

As for India, India's influence is hardly seen outside south asia.