What's new

Chinese tech companies spooked about becoming 'next ZTE'

Oh, yeah? Let's how the US likes dealing with a rare earths embargo.

My friend, rare earths are not that rare at all. It is just that no body can compete with Chinese prices. You will find that at a slightly higher price, American, Canadian and Australian mines will open and begin production. Japan recently found a big rare earth discovery on its coast. Also, technology has also been evolving to use and substitute the more rare of the rare earths.
 
. .
Perhaps so. But China can't fight US right now. Again, the fight is not symmetric.

Maybe by 2025, when China will be in a better place.

But now, will harm China and Chinese upcoming tech sector.

These companies need some hard lessons and I'm very please that US has done China this favor otherwise Chinese chips industries will never developed. I don't know if China can fight back, I will leave that to Chinese government's imagination.
 
.
I'm sure they'll be able to eventually. Just like China will be able to achieve semiconductor independence eventually. The key word is "eventually."

But the eventually here is very different.

In the case of US, they ALREADY KNOW where the resource stockpiles are, they know where they are located, they have done survey work there, they also know and have the technology to extract those resources.

In China's case however, being cut off from the West will make it VERY VERY hard.

First, China doesn't make the equipment that is required for semiconductor fabrication. There are only American, European, and Japanese suppliers with each specializing in different instruments.

If america were to put embargo on semiconductor equipment, China will feel it difficult to even set up the factories that it is already setting up.

Apart from that there are the materials, the processes, other equipment, skilled labor, and over and above, the node technology.

These companies need some hard lessons and I'm very please that US has done China this favor otherwise Chinese chips industries will never developed. I don't know if China can fight back, I will leave that to Chinese government's imagination.

I agree. This is a blessing in disguise, BUT only if handled correctly.

Right now is not the time to fight. Right now is the time to swallow your pride for 10 more years, and develop indigenous tech.

If you fight, your indigenous development will actually suffer greatly.
 
.
For that money AMD just licensed its x86. The whole CPU however is not only about this. This is just a language to talk with the CPU. AMD has also been helping in designing independent CPUs, which will come to a standstill.

Once again, AMD was paid $293 million in 2016 for x86 chip technology ONLY. China did not pay for anything else because China doesn't need anything else. The chip is going to be unique and sold in China only. THATIC will be designing and manufacturing the chip. AMD has no further input other than receiving royalties.

So is the US government going to ban AMD from receiving royalties? I hope they do.:lol:

Under the deal, AMD said it had licensed x86 chip technology to a new venture it is forming with Tianjin Haiguang Advanced Technology Investment Co., which will use the technology to develop chips for server systems to be sold only in China. In exchange, AMD said it expects to receive $293 million in licensing fees plus royalties on sales of any chips developed by the venture.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/amd-to-license-chip-technology-to-china-chip-venture-1461269701
 
.
I agree. This is a blessing in disguise, BUT only if handled correctly.

Right now is not the time to fight. Right now is the time to swallow your pride for 10 more years, and develop indigenous tech.

If you fight, your indigenous development will actually suffer greatly.

I don't know much about this electronic business, but I believe that this will mark the beginning to end China dependency of US chips if it's not a wake up call. If US continues to play this dirty game in commercial sector, they should expect less and less options remain for them to use against China in the future.
 
.
here we are another non sense from indian.

China is the Biggest trading nation on this planet, not the US.
how the US push others country to do the same?
if we talked about 30-20 years ago, yeah.. they can do it.
today?
pfffftt
Forget about all other things,what is the use of an Android phone if it dsnt have access to play store,Chinese can use what ever store they have in china but for others phone without play store is of no use
 
Last edited:
.
Frankly, dude, the most hurt will be to Apple, than China, than US.
Apple manufacturer in China and employs quite a lot of people.

I think you are mistaken. Most hurt will be Apple and US. Apple has almost 100% products made in China. Has Apple employ almost all Chinese workers? The wages and money paid to supplier and workers and peanuts compare to the profit Apple corporate earn. A trade war will always has both side hurt. The key is who will hurt most. If you think few thousand Chinese worker get retrenched is more significant collapse of Nasdaq. It’s no wonder India underperform in economy and trade :enjoy:
 
.
I think you are mistaken. Most hurt will be Apple and US. Apple has almost 100% products made in China. Has Apple employ almost all Chinese workers? The wages and money paid to supplier and workers and peanuts compare to the profit Apple corporate earn. A trade war will always has both side hurt. The key is who will hurt most. If you think few thousand Chinese worker get retrenched is more significant collapse of Nasdaq. It’s no wonder India underperform in economy and trade :enjoy:

Tell me how are 100% Apple products made in China? China produces pretty much no component of note in an iphone.
 
.
$20 billion to build a new fab is a complete ripoff. This is the cost of buying equipment from the West.

TSMC Ready to Spend $20 Billion on its Most Advanced Chip Plant
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...nd-20-billion-on-its-most-advanced-chip-plant

If TSMC wants to do it, just let them do it. Huawei can design the chip and TSMC can fab it. This is already happening. Taiwan is not going to join a US ban.

Huawei Kirin 980 Mass Production Begins This Quarter, To Use TSMC’s 7nm Process

The race for the 7nm chip is on and it appears Huawei may be the first to announce a chipset based on the new process and also the first to have it in a phone.

Latest reports say that Huawei will begin mass production of the Kirin 980 chipset this quarter. The 7nm chipset will be manufactured by Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company Ltd. (TSMC).

https://www.gizmochina.com/2018/04/...begins-this-quarter-to-use-tsmcs-7nm-process/
 
.
This isn't a good thing in the long run for the US, all it does is make China focus more on R&D, speaking of which I'm pretty sure the US was saying before 2010 that China would never ever become a competitor in high-end manufacturing, why the sudden change of heart?

Just admit it guys, this is a trade war started for political gain that doesn't do much good for the US in the long run when it comes to being dominant in semi-conductors.
 
.
Well done.
I want more. It is a knock on our head. I have put up with companies like SAIC and FAW which focus only on the money but ignore the R&D. They are not the ambitious companies like HW which is aggressive.
 
.
Tell me how are 100% Apple products made in China? China produces pretty much no component of note in an iphone.
Can USA do the final assemble parts of iPhone in USA? No. My point still stands, if China revoke Foxconn licensed to assemble iPhone. Apple will have zero products to sell. You think you can build Rome in a day and find a supplier who can build as good as Foxconn in China in just few months time? It’s as good as putting the final nail to Apple. No product means worthless stock market value. Apple inc can close down.

China has many tricks to bring down American. Deng say bid the time but never say don’t strike when you are ready. ZTE saga is just a small issue. US dare not do further disruptive action. In fact, after ZTC saga. These will force local Chinese companies to use local chips. The rise of Chinese semi conductor came at a right time. They are lackstrate effort and half hearted attempt to use Chinese chips but this event is a big push others to do so. Huawei and xiaomi are already using local design chip set with semiconductor source from TMC. More will to follow.
 
Last edited:
.
TAIPEI -- Many Chinese tech companies are wary of becoming the next ZTE. The country's No. 2 telecom equipment provider and major smartphone maker was recently penalized by the U.S. government with a seven-year ban on buying American-made components.

The severe punishment imposed by the U.S. over ZTE's violation of a ban on selling products to Iran and North Korea could get the company in a big trouble. The company currently sources some 20-30% of its parts from American suppliers, according to Sinolink Securities, and it's not likely it will find alternatives for crucial chips and high-end optic components anytime soon.

The Chinese company could also be barred from using Android operating systems provided by Google, which run on every handset ZTE is shipping. The company suspended trading of its shares in China and Hong Kong on April 16 and postponed its earnings release.


Though some say it's an isolated case, the ZTE ban came amid tit-for-tat trade tensions between the U.S. and China, and many Chinese tech companies are starting to fret that similar restrictions could be a blow to their business, according to analysts and industry sources. It is also part of Washington's ongoing efforts to curb Beijing's ambition to quickly gain technological dominance by pouring enormous amounts of funds into building a competitive semiconductor industry.

"The U.S. wants to show China its ability to really hit its tech companies badly ... there could be more to come," said Wang Yanhui, secretary general of Mobile China Alliance, an agency affiliated with China's Ministry of Industry and Information in Beijing. "Currently, only Beijing could save ZTE with some negotiations with Washington."

According to Wang, Chinese tech companies, such as Huawei Technologies, Lenovo Group, Xiaomi, Oppo and Vivo could also be hit hard if the U.S. expands similar bans to them, as they still need to use various chips and critical components provided by U.S. vendors.

China's Ministry of Commerce responded that it hopes the U.S. will handle the situation properly in accordance with laws and policies. It said it is prepared to take necessary measures to protect the legitimate interests of Chinese companies.

On April 19, the U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission released a report, naming Huawei, ZTE and Lenovo as companies that pose cyberespionage risks to the U.S. It also flagged Dell supplier Lishen Power Battery Systems and Apple supplier GoerTek, an audio component maker, for links to China's military, nuclear or cyberespionage programs. More than 10 Chinese enterprises were picked in the report.

In the near term, for mobile processors and other wireless chips, if access to the U.S. market were cut, these Chinese device makers could look to Taiwan's MediaTek and Realtek and their homegrown Unigroup Spreadtrum & RDA for quick alternatives. For memory chips, they could ask Samsung Electronics, SK Hynix, Toshiba and Nanya Technology to help fill the gaps. However, they would face large-scale product redesigns if they need to switch key suppliers.

Meanwhile, the U.S. still controls the most crucial intellectual properties, operating systems and high-end chip components needed to operate smartphones, base stations and networking equipment. For instance, it's impossible to replace core processor chips for data center servers from Intel and radio frequency components from Qorvo and Skyworks, or find quality optical parts from Lumentum elsewhere anytime soon.

Even Huawei Technologies, the world's biggest networking equipment builder and No. 3 smartphone maker, which aggressively develops its own chipset, boosts patent portfolios and localizes its supply chain, still finds it extremely difficult to eliminate U.S. components, said Andrew Lu, a longtime semiconductor analyst at Hong Kong-based Sinolink Securities.

"Take Huawei's latest Premium P20 Pro phone, for instance -- the company still uses many chips from Skyworks, Texas Instruments and Micron Technology," Lu said.

"The U.S. tech companies hold the most leading technologies in hand, which are not something the Chinese firms can easily find alternatives to or catch up in a short period of time," Yuanta Securities Investment Consulting analyst James Wei said.

Many emerging chip production projects and Chinese homegrown chip manufacturers would also be vulnerable if the U.S. were to impose bans on them.

For instance, state-backed Tsinghua Unigroup's affiliate Yangtze Memory Technologies is building a $24 billion memory chip facility in Wuhan, while Innotron Memory, another government-sponsored program, is constructing an $8 billion factory in Hefei. Semiconductor Manufacturing International Co., the country's biggest contract chipmaker, is also expanding its facility in Shanghai.

These are all part of Beijing's relentless push to slash dependence on overseas technologies, but it's not fast enough to bear fruit. These facilities rely heavily on U.S. semiconductor equipment providers such as Applied Materials, Lam Research and KLA-Tencor to go into operation.

More than 40% of capital expenditure from these Chinese companies goes to American equipment makers. Of that spending, they have no way to replace up to 30% of the components with alternatives from other parts of the world, noted Sinolink's Lu.

"If any of this kind of embargo is further imposed, that could be a serious blow to these emerging state-backed players," Lu added.

Nevertheless, the aggressive measure by the U.S. has sent a clear and strong warning to China, and could reinforce that country's determination to continue to boost local players.

Shares of many Chinese semiconductor-related companies, including state-sponsored Goodix and Gigadevice, on domestic stock exchanges surged during the week of April 16 amid reports that government bodies are discussing adding funding to the chip segment.

"It is foreseeable that China will accelerate the development of key components and its semiconductor industry in the wake of ZTE's case," said Liu Meng-chun, the head economic researcher at Taiwan's Chung-Hua Institute for Economic Research.

"ZTE will not be the only case. The U.S. could target rising Chinese tech companies like Alibaba Group Holding and Huawei to limit China's development in the global tech race," Liu said.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Business-Trends/Chinese-tech-companies-wary-to-become-next-ZTE


Answer to any oppressive moves against the Chinese economy and civilization... One Bet One Road.

Make China a hyper superpower no other nation dares to empose economic warfare against your nation.
 
.
Once again, AMD was paid $293 million in 2016 for x86 chip technology ONLY. China did not pay for anything else because China doesn't need anything else. The chip is going to be unique and sold in China only. THATIC will be designing and manufacturing the chip. AMD has no further input other than receiving royalties.

So is the US government going to ban AMD from receiving royalties? I hope they do.:lol:

Under the deal, AMD said it had licensed x86 chip technology to a new venture it is forming with Tianjin Haiguang Advanced Technology Investment Co., which will use the technology to develop chips for server systems to be sold only in China. In exchange, AMD said it expects to receive $293 million in licensing fees plus royalties on sales of any chips developed by the venture.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/amd-to-license-chip-technology-to-china-chip-venture-1461269701

china is still #1 in supercomputer without intel's best server chips. who cares about amd x86? it's amd that come to beg china to buy their sh1t to get into server market to compete with intel. there are plenty of alternatives server chips from chinese companies based on arm, power and sparc. the maker taihuLight tupercomputer is releasing one too for commercial with ai capability. :D

i'm not worry much. as long as they have access to taiwan and sk fabs.. this is all good news. china lack in high end chip fab tech, not designers. they have plenty of 'em. even a real estate company is getting into this business too. lol

Makers of TaihuLight Supercomputer Offer Commercial Version
TOP500 AuthorsHans Werner Meuer (1936 - 2014†) Erich StrohmaierJack DongarraHorst SimonMartin Meuer
Michael Feldman | June 23, 2017 18:33 CEST
One of the more unusual pieces of news at this year’s ISC High Performance conference was the announcement by the National Supercomputing Center in Wuxi that it will be offering a cut-down version of the Sunway TaihuLight supercomputer for more mainstream HPC users.

TaihuLight is the reigning champ on the TOP500 list, delivering a whopping 93 petaflops on the Linpack benchmark. Besides being the number one system, it’s other big claim to fame is that it is constructed almost entirely from Chinese-made componentry. In particular, the system is powered by the 260-core ShenWei processor, known as the SW26010. Each of TaihuLight’s 40,960 ShenWei chips delivers three teraflops of peak performance.

The commercial version they announced at ISC is called the Sunway Micro and is based a dual-socket SW26010 server node. The system is aimed at a broad spectrum of industrial and research applications including “deep learning, oil & gas exploration, climate modeling, etc.”

The two-processor design means each node delivers a very respectable six peak teraflops. Unlike the TaihuLight supercomputer, whose single-socket nodes were outfitted with a scant 32 GB of memory, the Sunway Micro can be equipped with 64 GB to 256 GB. That gives Micro buyers the option to have lot more local memory to feed these high-flying ShenWei chips. Each node is also equipped with 12 GB of local storage of undefined type and origin.

While talking with some of the folks at the Wuxi booth during the ISC exhibition, they revealed that the Micro nodes can be clustered together via a network based on InfiniBand technology, which apparently is similar, but not identical to the TaihuLight network implementaion. Given that these servers will be used in relatively small clusters, they didn’t have to develop a network for supercomputer-level scalability.

One of the most unusual aspects of the Sunway Micro is that it is being sold by the National Supercomputing Center in Wuxi. That might seem like an odd thing for a supercomputing center to do, given its public mission. But since the center supplies the system software and developer toolset for these ShenWei-based machines, they basically act as system integrators for the commercial offering. As for the TaihiLight, the Micro was developed by the National Research Center of Parallel Computer Engineering & Technology (NRCPC).

Software support includes C/C++ and Fortran compilers for the ShenWie, as well as supporting runtime libraries. For parallel software development, Wuxi includes MPI, OpenACC and Athread implementations targeted to the ShenWei platform. An integrated development environment, with a debugger and performance monitor, are also included.

Besides selling the standard version of the Micro, the Wuxi center will also provide customized solutions. Pricing for the system was not made public.
 
.
Back
Top Bottom