What's new

Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise

Thank you Sir. for corroborating my statement:


Vietnam War is of injustice to the eyes ot Vienam people, wrong to the eyes of of American people. So it is doomed regardless of the vast weaponary contrast.

I am not specifically corroborating you comment at all.
You actual post was written in a specific manner and I am replying to that post and the way it was presented.

My comments of the political nature are more complex than just people so you still miss the deep issues of this conflict.

Do not play with my words.

Again your last comment is still misinformed and still highly simplified, so I would suggest you do not embarrass yourself further by discussing that war till you go read up on it a bit more.

I know more about this war than you do. Take the hint.
 
Weapon is an important means of winning a war, it nonetheless is not deterministic. The most deterministic factor of winning a war is people.

Both Korea War and Vietnam War testify that.

In the Vietnam War, USA arguably used the most advanced weapons, conventional and chemical, in Vietnam against VC, NVC and the people of Vietnam, with the most barbarous cruelty that top the all war history of human kind. It is, however, the brave Vietnam people, North and South alike, armed only with junks that laughed by you, kicked the invaders a$$ out of Vietnam, including their puppets, among which you are probably one. :lol:

It is pitiful for a "military prefessional" to forget military history.
Why the latest good news from Iraq doesn't matter. - By Phillip Carter - Slate Magazine
With a tinge of bitterness about the war's outcome, Summers told Tu, "You know, you never defeated us on the battlefield." Tu replied, in a phrase that perfectly captured the American misunderstanding of the Vietnam War, "That may be so, but it is also irrelevant."
Take the man's advice, lay of the rhetorics and the hyperboles and do some genuine study of the Vietnam War before, just like how I show you know little about the military, I can embarrass you even worse about the Vietnam War.
 
Why the latest good news from Iraq doesn't matter. - By Phillip Carter - Slate Magazine
Take the man's advice, lay of the rhetorics and the hyperboles and do some genuine study of the Vietnam War before, just like how I show you know little about the military, I can embarrass you even worse about the Vietnam War.

Thank you for corroborating my statement again, too.

"That may be so, but it is also irrelevant."

Well said indeed, Mr. Tu. As long as the people of Vietnam won it, anything else is irrelevant. It doesn’t matter how comforting it may sound to say something.

It’s a shame to US military that it won all over the world, including WWI and WWII, but completely defeated in Vietnam War. We must learn lesson from shame to avoid being defeated and getting a shame next time. Blaming media is simply not it!

I suggest your military professionals open a thread in, perhaps military history topic, and teach us something that we may not know. And we may talk/debate from there.

Any of you want to take the challenge?
 
Thank you for corroborating my statement again, too.



Well said indeed, Mr. Tu. As long as the people of Vietnam won it, anything else is irrelevant. It doesn’t matter how comforting it may sound to say something.

It’s a shame to US military that it won all over the world, including WWI and WWII, but completely defeated in Vietnam War. We must learn lesson from shame to avoid being defeated and getting a shame next time. Blaming media is simply not it!

I suggest your military professionals open a thread in, perhaps military history topic, and teach us something that we may not know. And we may talk/debate from there.

Any of you want to take the challenge?
The goal of the US/SVN alliance was to MAINTAIN partition, not to invade North Vietnam. In that, the military goals were accomplished and North Vietnam failed. If you are unable intellectually to distinguish the differences between military objectives versus political goals, then you have no business discussing ANY topics regarding politics and war. So either YOU start or revive a discussion about this conflict and let yourself be further humiliated by me, I suggest you stay with this Song-class sub tall tale here.
 
The goal of the US/SVN alliance was to MAINTAIN partition, not to invade North Vietnam. In that, the military goals were accomplished and North Vietnam failed. If you are unable intellectually to distinguish the differences between military objectives versus political goals, then you have no business discussing ANY topics regarding politics and war. So either YOU start or revive a discussion about this conflict and let yourself be further humiliated by me, I suggest you stay with this Song-class sub tall tale here.

So you are implying that Vietnam still maintains partitioned, because either your military objective or your political goal is achieved but NV’s failed!

How hilarious! :rofl:


Couldn't be entertained more!
 
So you are implying that Vietnam still maintains partitioned, because either your military objective or your political goal is achieved but NV’s failed!

How hilarious!


Couldn't be entertained more!
Still? It is hilarious of your reading comprehension. I said 'was'. If you ever do decide to debate me about the Vietnam War, I will slaughter you.

:rofl:
 
Still? It is hilarious of your reading comprehension. I said 'was'. If you ever do decide to debate me about the Vietnam War, I will slaughter you.

:rofl:

Vicious SV puppet government was only good at butchering its own people.


The photo depicts police chief General Nguyen Ngoc Loan executing a Vitecong prisoner, Nguyen Van Lem on February 1, 1968 during the Tet Offensive.


Kim Phuc, center left in the photo, shows her running away from a Napalm attack by a South Vietnamese pilot ...

:tdown:
 
Vicious SV puppet government was only good at butchering its own people.
After unification (1975) more Viets either died at the hands of the communist government or fled the country in terror. Estimated over one million 'boat people'.

The photo depicts police chief General Nguyen Ngoc Loan executing a Vitecong prisoner, Nguyen Van Lem on February 1, 1968 during the Tet Offensive.
Because the VC murdered a policeman's family. Under the Geneva Conventions, the VC are not recognized as a legitimate combat force but rather can be tried and executed as spies. Good riddance to the commie scum.

Kim Phuc, center left in the photo, shows her running away from a Napalm attack by a South Vietnamese pilot ...

:tdown:
Kim Phuc later defected to the West at the most opportune moment -- to Canada. She requested political asylum and became a speaker against communism.

Do you really believe you have anything new for me?

:rofl:
 
Gambit you are speaking out of your arse again. You have no clue to the cruelty the Yankees commited towards innocent people. You did not have to suffer your family members (children even) being beheaded alive. You did not have to suffer from bombs dropping daily and dying slow painful death. Do you know the whole "fighting communism" was one big-fat-zionist lie??? Difficult for your little racist white brain to comprehend such a thing.

How do you like your Financial Crisis? Your people are killing each other over something insignificant as foreclosures.

One thing is for certain Karma will get your racist arse, if not in this life then in the next.
 
Gambit you are speaking out of your arse again. You have no clue to the cruelty the Yankees commited towards innocent people. You did not have to suffer your family members (children even) being beheaded alive. You did not have to suffer from bombs dropping daily and dying slow painful death. Do you know the whole "fighting communism" was one big-fat-zionist lie??? Difficult for your little racist white brain to comprehend such a thing.

How do you like your Financial Crisis? Your people are killing each other over something insignificant as foreclosures.

One thing is for certain Karma will get your racist arse, if not in this life then in the next.
Would someone clue this guy in on WHAT am I before he embarrass himself further with his drivel?
 
1) The US could have destroyed North Vietnam at any time by using nuclear weapons - they decided not to because of public opinion in the US not because of anything the vietnamese or the europeans did.
2) The US was not: "kicked out" of vietnam - we left because of public opinion in the US.
3) Vietnam was just one battle in the cold war. The US won the cold war and the USSR ended up on the "ash heap" of history.
4) Millions of vietnamese civilians were murdered by the communists YEARS after the US left. This is precisely what the US said would happen and what the stupid liberals in europe denied would happen.
5) Both vietnam and china are communist in name only. In reality they depend on capitalism to feed their people - communism has failed. Capitalism has won.
 
...

Kim Phuc later defected to the West at the most opportune moment -- to Canada. She requested political asylum and became a speaker against communism.

Do you really believe you have anything new for me?

:rofl:

If your intelligence is only limited to no more than equaling against VC to for SV government, nothing new will be absorbed by you. :lol: :wave:

Ngo Dinh Diem - U.S.-backed leader of South Vietnam; ran anti-Buddhist regime that was rife with corruption and nepotism

Ngo Dinh Thuc - Diem's brother; also the Catholic archbishop of Hue

Ngo Dinh Nhu - Diem's youngest brother, whom Diem appointed chief of the government's Can Lao secret police organization

Madame Nhu - Nhu's wife; served as South Vietnam's de facto first lady and became wildly controversial

Diem in Office

Upon taking office, Ngo Dinh Diem quickly developed a reputation for using force rather than democratic means to initiate change. Beginning in 1955, he used ARVN troops to reverse Communist land redistribution in South Vietnam and return landholdings to the previous owners. Fearful of Viet Minh popularity and activity in rural areas—which had increased as a result of Diem's cancellation of the scheduled 1956 elections—Diem uprooted villagers from their lands and moved them to settlements under government or army surveillance. He forcibly drafted many of these peasants into ARVN, increasing his unpopularity in rural areas even further.

Catholicism and Nepotism

Diem's government was also unpopular because it had an overwhelming Catholic bias and contained several unpopular, key figures who were members of Diem's own family, the Ngo family. Although Catholics made up less than a tenth of the Vietnamese population, Diem himself was Catholic, as were all his other family members in the government. Diem's government engaged in often vicious persecution of Buddhists, who made up the overwhelming majority of Vietnamese citizens, particularly peasants. Diem's brother Ngo Dinh Thuc, the influential Catholic archbishop of Hue, in particular came into conflict with Buddhists.

Diem continued his nepotistic trend by installing his youngest brother, Ngo Dinh Nhu, as the leader of the government's secret police organization, the Can Lao. Moreover, because Diem himself was not married, his sister-in-law, Nhu's wildly unpopular, Francophile wife, Madame Nhu, became South Vietnam's de facto first lady. In the years that followed, Madame Nhu would emerge as a notorious figure in Vietnam and on the world stage; arrogant, extravagant, and prone to nasty, on-the-record comments, she created one public relations disaster after another for the U.S.-backed Diem government.

Diem's Crackdown on Communism

In general, Diem's repressive policies between 1955 and 1959, though designed to root out Communists from South Vietnam, actually increased sympathy for Communists in the South and swelled the ranks of the southern Viet Minh. Although the southern Viet Minh were anxious to revolt against Diem, Viet Minh leaders in the North held back their southern forces because they feared that the United States might get involved in the conflict.

In May 1959, Diem passed Law 10/59, establishing military tribunals to search out Communists in South Vietnam, whom he derisively referred to as Viet Cong. These tribunals were unconcerned with justice, and Law 10/59 was brutal in its application.

The National Liberation Front

In 1960, a group of Vietnamese intellectuals issued the Caravelle Manifesto, which called for mild reforms to Diem's corrupt regime. Diem, paranoid, unable to take criticism, and unwilling to negotiate, threw the reformers in jail and refused to diminish the power of his much-hated brother Nhu. A coup against Diem was attempted later that year but failed.

Also in 1960, in an effort to present a united front, southern Communists formed the National Liberation Front (NLF), which the North Vietnamese government officially recognized and sanctioned. Immediately, the NLF began a program to both train and arm guerrilla soldiers. Over the course of the next few years, the terms “NLF” and “Viet Cong” began to be used interchangeably, and ultimately the once-derisive “Viet Cong” became common parlance that was used throughout the war, especially by the U.S. military.

Assessing Diem's Regime

Although the Ngo family was universally hated in South Vietnam, Diem, despite his Catholic faith and dictatorial tendencies, had been widely respected as a sincere nationalist in the years before he came to power. Indeed, he was in many respects just as nationalistic as Ho Chi Minh. It was for these reasons that the United States felt that Diem represented the best hope for a strong South Vietnamese government that could resist Communist influence.

As it turned out, Diem's regime was undemocratic, corrupt, and extreme from the beginning, and, as evidenced by the formation of ARVN, dependent on U.S. strength. Though Diem was popular among Catholics and had some influence in South Vietnam's cities, his regime was universally hated in rural areas, which proved a perfect hiding and training ground for Communist forces. And in a nation as undeveloped as Vietnam was at the time, power in the cities meant far less than it would have in a developed country.

Indeed, though the United States established Diem as leader to halt Communist expansion, his repressive techniques, corrupt government, and inept public relations—such as his decision to grant his hated sister-in-law, Madame Nhu, a public stage—had the opposite effect. Under Diem, the number of active southern Communists increased dramatically. To the United States, operating under the domino theory, this Communist expansion posed a massive threat.
 

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom