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Chinese Police Dynamite Christian Megachurch

We haven't even started yet ....... anyways I hope you got your answer.




All the best to Atheist China ......... and I hope she would be just in its treatment of people without discriminating them, based on their religious beliefs and associations.

I heard enough when I was young, and yours is just the repeat of what I was preached many times. It's just boring. Atheist China is going great so it can afford to invest billions on CPEC. Chinese gov can't discriminate anyone on the basis of religion, but private citizens are free to give a middle finger to anyone who try to instigate issues in the name of religion.
 
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I heard enough when I was young, and yours is just the repeat of what I was preached many times. It's just boring. Atheist China is going great so it can afford to invest billions on CPEC. Chinese gov can't discriminate anyone on the basis of religion, but private citizens are free to give a middle finger to anyone who try to instigate issues in the name of religion.


Its hard to believe your story buddy ........ because Atheist China tends to insult an entity which it believes doesn't exist in first place ....... sign of insecurity in what you believe ..... if you ask me.

And please don't give me that billions in CPEC argument as you are doing some big favor out of your good heart ........ its not some favor, its your own interest, I happen to have a world map and can very clearly see the interests and savings involved. :)
 
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Read the Christian bible, the Old Testament, the "God" is Israeli/Jewish god only.
 
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The problem with Atheists (my view and opinion) is that they wish God to prove HIS existence by punishing someone, like throwing thunderbolts from skies on some rapist or murderer of HIS followers ..... what they don't see is all HIS blessings surrounding them even when they refuse to acknowledge HIS existence.

My friend God already gave you this world and afforded you freedom to make whatever you wish of it, HE made a law to let humans rule their Earth ..... HE is that lawful that HE doesn't even break laws made by HIMSELF, however, what is going to happen when humans leave this Earth? that would be HIS domain. Do we create animals ourselves for our consumption and convenience? Did humans make this Earth as it is? Is Earth today better than when it was inhabited by earlier humans? Do we produce plants? Did humans create Sun and the moon? Or all the stars? Skies and oceans? Or did we humans create the gravity to keep everything in order? Did we?

Anyways why we want God to prove his existence by sending a big asteroid towards Earth? Is humanity capable of surviving impact of a 10 km wide asteroid hitting the Earth? The Mightier you are the more patient and sober you are ....... and HE happens to be the Mightiest.
There is a difference between religion and spirituality. Chinese don't tend to mix the two.

Many "atheist" (the categorisation is misleading) Chinese are actually very spiritual and many would agree with what you have said but don't prescribe to an organised religion, many even read holy books. If you talk about just the spirituality side you would have common language but most Chinese don't get caught up thinking about that stuff all the time. Some might even deny that they are spiritual in attempt to avoid getting caught up in conversion tactics. Chinese do have a concept for god/deity/divine/nature but differentiate that with forms of governance or religion.

To be honest many/most Chinese don't feel entirely comfortable talking about that stuff with overly religious people for not wanting to hurt their feelings because they know how much some people care about their faith, they want to show respect to religious people. If the religious person feels comfortable then its fine. People can bad mouth Chinese people, religions, culture, customs, and important figures and no civilian will harm or kill the critic. I am not sure if the same cannot be said of some religious countries, thus the keeping of distance/silence. Chinese don't seek to change any other countries but others must realize China is the homeland for Chinese civilisation not for anybody else unless they assimilate (at least embrace some Chinese values) and live peacefully (sorry if that sounds hurtful but outside opinions has little effect upon China) and will defend it with their lives , as Chinese only have one China. All East Asian countries are similar in this regard, people will try to be extra polite and generous to foreigners since they are considered guests, but they are only guests in the end and will not be able to dictate how the nation is run (though they might try). Some Chinese become Japanese citizens but must adopt a Japanese name, their culture, values, identity etc from East Asian point of view its quite reasonable maybe not from other's views.

This is a phase in Chinese history where it (re)meets religions (Christianity) and over generations indigenizes them to become one that is compatible with Chinese society. Hui muslims are compatible with Chinese society because they are Chinese but muslims like ones seen in migrant crisis might not be compatible due to their interpretation of the religion and social values. This can be seen in the negative impact of Arab Islamic influence upon Chinese muslims and how it relates to ultra-conservatism and even terrorism.

Abrahamic religions (if interpreted fundamentally) combine governance, spirituality, education, and ideology, though there is nothing wrong with spirituality by itself. China for various reason of history have kept all those things separated or rather more decentralised in various schools of thought and literary works (the Bible is seen as a literary work along with others). This means there is room for different forms of religion and governance to exist together, China is open to try different combinations. Religion can exist in China but must understand that the governance of China is the ultimate authority, not the church/pope/priest.

Some members have stated the reason for women covering their hair/face in Islamic countries was for their protection, and I respect that and hope for a safe and prosperous life for all women. This means there was a need due to various reasons in Islamic countries to do this, but modern day China doesn't have a need for that due to its social environment. If men from these countries are brought to China en-mass who think women are better protected by covering up then there is a tendency to view uncovered women as "loose" or "impure" and more likely to attack them as observed in European migrant crisis. This overtime will change Chinese society/attitudes to be less open since there is a clash with the existing population. People can do whatever they wish at home (legal activities) but the public domain considers the welfare of the entire society. Its not so much the act of covering of women but the underlying attitudes that pushes for covering. China won't bother with how other country governs themselves.

If you wondered why China and other East Asian countries like assimilation over multiculturalism its because of collectivism/common identity weaved through thousands of years of history. Though we tend to be very individualistic in most walks of life but there is a consensus in the public sphere of identity, we are proud of it but we are not a people to have empty pride, a dysfunctional society doesn't sit well with us. Chinese generally adapt well outside of China because they respect the local culture and many assimilate but the country of China is more homogeneous. Individualistic countries like UK and US are more welcoming of multiculturalism. In China, no matter your religion, ethnic group, etc must be contributing to the welfare of the whole and not just your particular identity groups. The current world climate involving religious conflicts just further urges the Chinese government to take action to reduce negative religious influence. All religions must be aligned with the Chinese values and identity, of course Chinese only keeps the positive/useful aspects of our culture, its susceptible to change of times.
 
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Its hard to believe your story buddy ........ because Atheist China tends to insult an entity which it believes doesn't exist in first place ....... sign of insecurity in what you believe ..... if you ask me.

And please don't give me that billions in CPEC argument as you are doing some big favor out of your good heart ........ its not some favor, its your own interest, I happen to have a world map and can very clearly see the interests and savings involved. :)

we Chinese believe in Mao wisdom words:
seek the truth from the facts!
there is no truth in religion, just empty frat
 
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Thank you my friend, I wish I could rate your post positive.

People can bad mouth Chinese people, religions, culture, customs, and important figures but no civilian will harm or kill the critic.

Honestly that is not my intention. My participation is limited to debating questions raised as to existence of God, in my initial post I clearly mentioned that if the building was illegal construction without a permit, then demolishing it is fine, but it was just to ban people from practicing their religion and beliefs, that is not fine. Obviously that is my personal opinion and my opinion and I have nothing to do with China and Chinese as I don't live there.

Chinese don't seek to change any other countries but others must realize China is the homeland for Chinese civilisation not for anybody else unless they assimilate (at least embrace some Chinese values) and live peacefully (sorry if that sounds hurtful but outside opinions has little effect upon China) and will defend it with their lives

I don't know about others, but I consider Mao Zedong to be very close to what I hold as my belief and faith. I am Muslim and I can tell you Islam has only problem with oppression and exploitation of humans, rest it is more like live and let live for all, believe and follow and those who don't ..... let them be.

we Chinese believe in Mao wisdom words:
seek the truth from the facts!
there is no truth in religion, just empty frat

And the religion I follow advises me the same ......... as I said I don't know about others but I consider Mao very close to what I practice and believe as my faith.
 
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that's a typical human reasoning.....
if God did not spare the temple in israel & scattered the israelites when they disobeyed him who/what are those man made buildings to him?

the God of bible/israel doesnt live in temple built by the hands of man.
anyway the 3rd temple will be built when the messiah returns.

I don't know about Jews and Christians but the same God told us Muslims ... that HE doesn't need our prayers and worship, HIS angels are enough to please HIM with that, HE wants us to see acting as humans, HIS best creation.

I don't believe in return of Messiah, he came, he lived, he preached and established a state and departed like any other normal human.
 
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Well regardless, the omnipotent God should have threw some lightning bolts at the Chinese police or at least make the dynamite not work....but look like Christian God is too weak or too fake. Sometimes I wonder what's inside the minds of idiots.
that's a typical human reasoning.....
if God did not spare the temple in israel & scattered the israelites when they disobeyed him who/what are those man made buildings to him?

the God of bible/israel doesnt live in temple built by the hands of man.
anyway the 3rd temple will be built when the messiah returns.

I don't know about Jews and Christians but the same God told us Muslims ... that HE doesn't need our prayers and worship, HIS angels are enough to please HIM with that, HE wants us to see acting as humans, HIS best creation.

I don't believe in return of Messiah, he came, he lived, he preached and established a state and departed like any other normal human.
sorry my original reply was not aimed at you.

anyway, if he simply passed away whats the point of preaching on earth?
 
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Why didn't all might omnipotent God stop the Chinese from destroying the church
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Is God real?

Can you ask this same questions to the pakistanis that why their God didn't stop the destruction of masques??
 
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sorry my original reply was not aimed at you.

No problem.

anyway, if he simply passed away whats the point of preaching on earth?


You are asking this question to a Muslim ......... preaching by who? Jesus (Peace be upon him) or his followers now?

If Jesus then his people at that time needed guidance.

And for his followers now ...... all I can say is what's the point of driving an old model of the same brand when the newer more better everlasting model is there in the market. But some people tend to stick with old things.

Can you ask this same questions to the pakistanis that why their God didn't stop the destruction of masques??


For your information ....... a Pakistani has been answering / debating his Chinese friends in this very same thread.
 
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China as oldest living Civilisation must remain Confuscian in both character and daily practice.

What has served China for thousands of years must be protected.

Loose Confuscian Ethos and loose the heart and soul of China.

PRC must do everything possible in this regard!
 
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Thank you my friend, I wish I could rate your post positive.



Honestly that is not my intention. My participation is limited to debating questions raised as to existence of God, in my initial post I clearly mentioned that if the building was illegal construction without a permit, then demolishing it is fine, but it was just to ban people from practicing their religion and beliefs, that is not fine. Obviously that is my personal opinion and my opinion and I have nothing to do with China and Chinese as I don't live there.



I don't know about others, but I consider Mao Zedong to be very close to what I hold as my belief and faith. I am Muslim and I can tell you Islam has only problem with oppression and exploitation of humans, rest it is more like live and let live for all, believe and follow and those who don't ..... let them be.



And the religion I follow advises me the same ......... as I said I don't know about others but I consider Mao very close to what I practice and believe as my faith.
Please don't take that as a personally directed reply to your statements, much of my writing is directed at any interested readers to provide a more holistic understanding. I understand you have good intentions and your sentiment. It was intended to show that if others have an open attitude with the Chinese, most will reciprocate, it's how Chinese understand the world but will likely be closed off to people who are closed off themselves. Don't like bothering people who don't like being bothered.

There is much mystery to this article but China is so big with so much going on that most Chinese are a bit desensitised to minor events like this, even if they feel a certain way about it, the feeling is passing. Most issues don't make the news nor do people have the attention span to care for all events, just another day. Problems and resolution, that's the development of society. Chinese have adapted to only care for the macro trends, those around them, major pressing issues, inspirational news and recent development in the care for civil society.

If the world was divided into 5 equally populated regions. China is a world onto itself.
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I can say for a fact that China has many state sanctioned places for worship, the government never really care for personal belief as long as the nation is protected. I think it will take a while before China feels comfortable with various internal/external factors. China's development had been very recent and even Chinese are not used to China's pace at development, many still think they are a weak and abused country, which might seem funny to some outsiders but it is true. There are those who if you tell them that China is strong now, they would think you are foolish/misinformed. Many have a fantasy about the level of wealth and development(human, economic, and social) of developed countries and the disparity they have with China, I have seen this myself with those who visit the US and Canada. Overall they praise the environment but generally disappointed by the reality of these countries. There is nothing wrong with the countries they visit but those Chinese realise the difference between the West and China isn't as big as they previously thought.

There is just a general suspicion for privately organized and funded churches as some act as a breeding ground for CIA infiltration and cult activity (its been confirmed many times). You would be surprised by the number of cults that have sprung up over the years with people claiming to be Jesus and different variations, fooling vulnerable people. If the government doesn't keep an eye on them then how will they know if the church is actually legit or just a cult masking as a church. Chinese government can't really care for being against religion simply because China has too many pressing issues, religion is not even on their list unless there are incidents that affects national security or there is criminal activity. Demolition of illegal buildings are quite common, it could be due to paperwork.

There is also a difference between religion and the institution of religion, which often gets abused by those who seek self power and not the empowerment of others but will use religion as a vehicle for power. At least that sometimes the case in China. Many Chinese actually read and own holy books, but when asked many would say they are non-religious simply because they don't identify with the institution of religion nor do they want outside influence. They would rather interpret things for themselves (its more relateable), free from politics.
 
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Thank you again my friend, for such an elaborate reply. I didn't take anything personal, I was just clarifying my position. I hope we both understand each other.

There is just a general suspicion for privately organized and funded churches as some act as a breeding ground for CIA infiltration and cult activity (its been confirmed many times). You would be surprised by the number of cults that have sprung up over the years with people claiming to be Jesus and different variations, fooling vulnerable people. If the government doesn't keep an eye on them then how will they know if the church is actually legit or just a cult masking as a church. Chinese government can't really care for being against religion simply because China has too many pressing issues, religion is not even on their list unless there are incidents that affects national security or there is criminal activity. Demolition of illegal buildings are quite common, it could be due to paperwork.

I am all supportive of state controlled mosques in my own country, plus I want my state to interfere and take control of privately operated Medressas as well, and if China is already in that position then we should be learning something from China.

I agree China is huge people and what they have achieved is based on their hard work, dedication and a clear vision, and no people would like their hard earned rewards to be wasted by some fools or malicious thugs. They are an emerging power and I pray the world benefits from them and they don't end being rude and arrogant.
 
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Thank you again my friend, for such an elaborate reply. I didn't take anything personal, I was just clarifying my position. I hope we both understand each other.


I am all supportive of state controlled mosques in my own country, plus I want my state to interfere and take control of privately operated Medressas as well, and if China is already in that position then we should be learning something from China.

I agree China is huge people and what they have achieved is based on their hard work, dedication and a clear vision, and no people would like their hard earned rewards to be wasted by some fools or malicious thugs. They are an emerging power and I pray the world benefits from them and they don't end being rude and arrogant.

Did you hear about the Chienese underground churches??? About two thirds of the whooping 100 million Christians in China don't go to official churches...Official churches are in fact just political institutes...
 
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Did you hear about the Chienese underground churches??? About two thirds of the whooping 100 million Christians in China don't go to official churches...Official churches are in fact just political institutes...


Underground would be something illegal then. You say they are 100 million in numbers and still they are afraid?
 
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