[Chinese] On Shambaugh's collapsism and relationship with 江泽民, 曾庆红

[Raphael]

(Very abridged) translation: Shambaugh was part of a generation of US sinologists who promoted the theory that US engagement and trade would lead to China's political opening up and democratization. China was supposed to be just a big Japan, and certainly just as docile. Shambaugh had a good relation with pro-West leaders like Jiang Zemin and Zeng Qinghong, whom he compared to legendary reformers like Hu Yaobang and Zhao Ziyang. However, the CCP is not static, and Xi Jinping's (even Hu Jintao's) new, nationally-focused policies have moved China away from the US' desired/envisioned trajectory. China has become more powerful, but not as docile and acquiescent to US interests as Shambaugh told US leaders it would be, and now Shambaugh has egg on his face. That's why, out of frustration, Shambaugh has turned into a new Gordon Chang.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Jiang and Zeng were corrupt, but the most pro-West leaders were Hu Yaobang and Zhao Ziyang, then followed by Wen Jiabao.

 

[Lux de Veritas]

(Very abridged) translation: Shambaugh was part of a generation of US sinologists who promoted the theory that US engagement and trade would lead to China's political opening up and democratization. China was supposed to be just a big Japan, and certainly just as docile. Shambaugh had a good relation with pro-West leaders like Jiang Zemin and Zeng Qinghong, whom he compared to legendary reformers like Hu Yaobang and Zhao Ziyang. However, the CCP is not static, and Xi Jinping's (even Hu Jintao's) new, nationally-focused policies have moved China away from the US' desired/envisioned trajectory. China has become more powerful, but not as docile and acquiescent to US interests as Shambaugh told US leaders it would be, and now Shambaugh has egg on his face. That's why, out of frustration, Shambaugh has turned into a new Gordon Chang.

Xi is now backstabbing his benefactor Jiang Zemin and Zeng Qinghong in alliance with Hu and Wen. So this Sham guy start jumping up and down.

Xi has shit on General Xu Caihou, Zhou Yongkang..etc which is Jiang's inner circle. Now Xi is taking down Guo Boxiong.

Jiang Zemin faction has lost completely. Before Jiang Zemin stop Li Keqiang from ascending. If Li Keqiang call the shot today, he will be weak and Jiang can still be Regent for years. Li Keqiang is a commer.

Xi is a princelings and now princelings look to Xi as their leaders. Once princelings are mobilize, Jiang Shanghai clique simply collapse.

 

[Place Of Space]

Jiang and Zeng were corrupt, but the most pro-West leaders were Hu Yaobang and Zhao Ziyang, then followed by Wen Jiabao.

LMAO, China don't need to pro anyone. Just do anything for nation/s interests.

During Cold War, China helped America to win USSR and America helped China to develop economy.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

LMAO, China don't need to pro anyone. Just do anything for nation/s interests.

During Cold War, China helped America to win USSR and America helped China to develop economy.

China doesn't need to pro anyone, but there are fifth column groups among us, and these people don't put China's national interests in the first place.

Xi is now backstabbing his benefactor Jiang Zemin and Zeng Qinghong in alliance with Hu and Wen. So this Sham guy start jumping up and down.

Xi has shit on General Xu Caihou, Zhou Yongkang..etc which is Jiang's inner circle. Now Xi is taking down Guo Boxiong.

Jiang Zemin faction has lost completely. Before Jiang Zemin stop Li Keqiang from ascending. If Li Keqiang call the shot today, he will be weak and Jiang can still be Regent for years. Li Keqiang is a commer.

Xi is a princelings and now princelings look to Xi as their leaders. Once princelings are mobilize, Jiang Shanghai clique simply collapse.

Xi Jinping didn't form an alliance with Hu and Wen.

Do you know who is Ling Jihua? This guy was once considered as the successor of Hu Jintao, yet he is gone now, and this is a major blow to Hu's faction.

About Wen Jiabao, his days are now pretty much numbered.

 

[Beast]

So how is the R/S between Jiang and Xi nowadays? Or they turn against each other's?

Seriously, how the very upper level of CCP operates and how they choose their leader is one of the greatest mystery and well kept secret.

 

[Lux de Veritas]

China doesn't need to pro anyone, but there are fifth column groups among us, and these people don't put China's national interests in the first place.



Xi Jinping didn't form an alliance with Hu and Wen.

Do you know who is Ling Jihua? This guy was once considered as the successor of Hu Jintao, yet he is gone now, and this is a major blow to Hu's faction.

About Wen Jiabao, his days are now pretty much numbered.

Ling Jihua to succeed Hu Jintao? You got to have your mind check.

Li Keqiang and Hu Chunhua looks more likely. And whether Ling Jihua is Hu's gang is questionable. He is Shanxi clique, and everyone know his family has links with Bo Xilai.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Ling Jihua to succeed Hu Jintao? You got to have your mind check.

Li Keqiang and Hu Chunhua looks more likely. And whether Ling Jihua is Hu's gang is questionable. He is Shanxi clique, and everyone know his family has links with Bo Xilai.

Ling Jihua was a very important member of Tuanpai, and he got a bigger role than both Li Keqiang and Hu Chunhua.

Ling Jihua belonged to Hu's faction was always very well known in China.

And i suggest you to read more different sources other than the one from the Epoch Times.

 

[Lux de Veritas]

Ling Jihua is a very important member of Tuanpai, and he got a bigger role than both Li Keqiang and Hu Chunhua.

Ling Jihua belonged to Hu's faction was always very well known in China.

And i suggest you to read more different sources other than the one from the Epoch Times.

Ling is important to Tuanpai does not mean he is earmark as the successor. He belongs to the CPC secretary gang not unlike role of eunuch, who is beholden to emperor. This is his stealth power.

And whether he was there because Hu like him or is there any more reasons is long due for speculation.

In taking down of Bo Xilai, Gu Junshan which is the prelude to taking down Xu Caihou and Guo Boxiong, Hu and Wen was an ally with Xi in countering Jiang.

This is a good thread yet again to expose CPC.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Ling is important to Tuanpai does not mean he is earmark as the successor. He belongs to the CPC secretary gang not unlike role of eunuch, who is beholden to emperor. This is his stealth power.

And whether he was there because Hu like him or is there any more reasons is long due for speculation.

In taking down of Bo Xilai, Gu Junshan which is the prelude to taking down Xu Caihou and Guo Boxiong, Hu and Wen was an ally with Xi in countering Jiang.

This is a good thread yet again to expose CPC.

Well, Ling Jihua got all the dirty secrets from the family of Hu and Wen, and taking him down is really not what Tuanpai wants to see.

BTW, Jiang's Shanghai clique and Hu's Tuanpai had been choking each other's throat for a decade, and now they are both going to be taken down by Xi Jinping's conservative left-wing princeling faction.

Jiang and Hu both won't be touched, but their faction will be gone.

 

[Place Of Space]

Ling Jihua was a very important member of Tuanpai, and he got a bigger role than both Li Keqiang and Hu Chunhua.

Ling Jihua belonged to Hu's faction was always very well known in China.

And i suggest you to read more different sources other than the one from the Epoch Times.

Hawks and doves differ, especially on North Korea, The Philippines and Ukraine issues.

 

[Lux de Veritas]

Well, Ling Jihua got all the dirty secrets from the family of Hu and Wen, and taking him down is that what Tuanpai wants to see.

BTW, Jiang's Shanghai clique and Hu's Tuanpai had been choking each other's throat for a decade, and now they are both going to be taken down by Xi Jinping's conservative left-wing princeling faction.

Jiang and Hu both won't be touched, but their faction will be gone.

You are right in some statement but princelings are equally as corrupt. There are good princelings who corrupt less. Nevertheless even Chairman Xi extended family are tycoon.

The corruption cannot be blame entirely to princelings but that is a design by Chen Yun. The condition for forgoing Marxism in favor of market economy was laid down such that the princelings become major shareholder.

Some princelings who serve in PLA, like Liu Yuan could be tycoon but he forgo everything. That is admirable. I am not say Liu Yuan is completely clean but apparently he is consider a pauper in relative to his playmates.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Hawks and doves differ, especially on North Korea, The Philippines and Ukraine issues.

Yeah, Xi Jinping is a hawkish leader, and that's why the influence of both Jiang and Hu need to be gone as soon as possible.

You are right in some statement but princelings are equally as corrupt. There are good princelings who corrupt less. Nevertheless even Chairman Xi extended family are tycoon.

The corruption cannot be blame entirely to princelings but that is a design by Chen Yun. The condition for forgoing Marxism in favor of market economy was laid down such that the princelings become major shareholder.

Some princelings who serve in PLA, like Liu Yuan could be tycoon but he forgo everything. That is admirable. I am not say Liu Yuan is completely clean but apparently he is consider a pauper in relative to his playmates.

Xi Jinping has ended his family's business, so he is clearly cleaner than Hu Jintao, and definitely a mile than Jiang Zemin.

Since he wanna become Mao 2nd, so the family corruption is a threshold that he needs to cross, and his family (sisters) has been completely withdrawn from the business sector.

This only shows that he has great ambition like Mao.

 

[Lux de Veritas]

Yeah, Xi Jinping is a hawkish leader, and that's why the influence of both Jiang and Hu need to be gone as soon as possible.



Xi Jinping has ended his family's business, so he is clearly cleaner than Hu Jintao, and definitely a mile than Jiang Zemin.

Since he wanna become Mao 2nd, so the family corruption is a threshold that he needs to cross, and his family (sisters) has been completely withdrawn from the business sector.

This only shows that he has great ambition like Mao.

You are wrong. Hu is very clean, and even his family do not prosper that much.

Wen's nuclear family is real wealthy.

Xi extended family is wealthy but speculations that Xi ask them to cash out. That means they got to keep a lot of wealth.

Princelings like Li Peng, Deng family and Wang Zhen family are incredibly wealthy but they are not Xi clique of princelings.

Liu Yuan appears to be quite clean but his extended family could be wealthy.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

You are wrong. Hu is very clean, and even his family do not prosper that much.

Wen's nuclear family is real wealthy.

Xi extended family is wealthy but speculations that Xi ask them to cash out. That means they got to keep a lot of wealth.

Princelings like Li Peng, Deng family and Wang Zhen family are incredibly wealthy but they are not Xi clique of princelings.

Liu Yuan appears to be quite clean but his extended family could be wealthy.

Hu Jintao's son didn't withdraw from the business sector, so you cannot really say how much money he has earned during his dad's term.

BTW, even the most anti-China sources claimed that Xi Jinping's family got 100-300 million USD, but not in the billionaire level yet.

Now his family has withdrawn from the business sector, and this is pretty much unprecedented for any leader in China's history.

Face the reality, your liberal allies in PRC now have been completely crushed and marginalized by Xi Jinping's hawkish conservative policy and iron fist.

Now it is pretty much impossible for the West to repeat a USSR 2.0 on PRC by sponsoring those liberal fifth column groups.