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Chinese Navy’s Type 054A Frigates visit South-east Asia

Which one is the Target destroyer?

no one knows.

typical way of how Chinese do things -- build the warship, put it into service, operate for a while, make some improvements, announce it when an improved ship in under construction. you never announce the availability until you have something much better on hand.

typical way of how india do things -- come up with a very rough idea, hold a media conference to announce it, make a full size model of the idea, show it to the general public during the national day parade, everyone shouting "incredible india", keep reporting the progress made on that project for 30 years doing "tests" as the technical difficulies are too hard to overcome, then label it as the world's most tested...come up with another idea without completing the one on hand, the above cycle repeats again and again.
 
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no one knows.

typical way of how Chinese do things -- build the warship, put it into service, operate for a while, make some improvements, announce it when an improved ship in under construction. you never announce the availability until you have something much better on hand.

typical way of how india do things -- come up with a very rough idea, hold a media conference to announce it, make a full size model of the idea, show it to the general public during the national day parade, everyone shouting "incredible india", keep reporting the progress made on that project for 30 years doing "tests" as the technical difficulies are too hard to overcome, then label it as the world's most tested...come up with another idea without completing the one on hand, the above cycle repeats again and again.

Well, you are describing a child with Attention Deficit Hyper Disorder (ADHD)

India do not plan to do it that way, it just happened. But I do believe that India should just purchase weapons instead of building it themselves as everyone want to sell India weapons.
 
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Don't think so PN would be getting Type-52C, as this is more of a fleet defence ship for air threats, with a 100+KM SAM system as main arsenal, but Type-054A is more like a multi-role thing with capability to launch cruise missiles also. Type-054A matches more to PN requirements compared to Type-052C.

why dont pak need air defence capability when engage in a sea battle with the presence of indian aircraft carrier and coastal massive aircraft assault on pak fleets of ships which are protecting pak coastal ports???? can you explain that anti indian air dominance is not important to secure your navy safety????? pak fleets with mediocre anti air capability when protecting pak near sea ports??? any hegemonic force with immense air force will first sink the ships before they get to the softer parts within the sea ports.......
 
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why dont pak need air defence capability when engage in a sea battle with the presence of indian aircraft carrier and coastal massive aircraft assault on pak fleets of ships which are protecting pak coastal ports???? can you explain that anti indian air dominance is not important to secure your navy safety????? pak fleets with mediocre anti air capability when protecting pak near sea ports??? any hegemonic force with immense air force will first sink the ships before they get to the softer parts within the sea ports.......


We have enough missile to counter any kind of AIRCRAFT CARRIER!
 
. . .
no one knows.

typical way of how Chinese do things -- build the warship, put it into service, operate for a while, make some improvements, announce it when an improved ship in under construction. you never announce the availability until you have something much better on hand.

typical way of how india do things -- come up with a very rough idea, hold a media conference to announce it, make a full size model of the idea, show it to the general public during the national day parade, everyone shouting "incredible india", keep reporting the progress made on that project for 30 years doing "tests" as the technical difficulies are too hard to overcome, then label it as the world's most tested...come up with another idea without completing the one on hand, the above cycle repeats again and again.


here is typical way how china do things:

What is chinese original in these 054 frigates except some missiles ?
Almost all of the components are license built from french .Even the engines.

If there is TOT any country will build comparable products and will incorporate their own R&D to make it better. not many TOT were offered to India until very recently. India didn't have the luxury to license build as many components as the chinese used to. But dude now TOT is coming to india.


Read below how 054a was built mostly by stealing foreign technologies.

The Russian state military import/ export agency Rosvoorouzhenie and 956E production Severnoye Design Bureau were shocked and angered when the 054A upgrade to the new People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) 054 frigate appeared in 2006 . At first it appeared to have four Russian-supplied systems that had been on earlier Chinese Luyang guided missile destroyers (DDGs). In reality, the four complex systems were illegal Chinese copies never before seen, and all were on a new serial production series of frigates.


The Sovremennyi high-technology combat systems copied by China on the surprising 2006 054A upgrade are the MGK-335 sonar, the Fregate M2EM three-dimensional (3-D) radar, Mineral ME (Bandstand) tracking radars and the Russian MR90 missile guidance tracker-illuminator for the SAN-7 Rif-M Shtil surface-to-air missile (SAM).

Designed by Morphizpribor Central Research Institute, the complete MGK-335 sonar suite has a towed variable depth sonar (VDS) in addition to its hull array. Because no stern VDS hoist is visible, the Chinese 956E ships must have the reduced MGK 335MS with only the hull sonar dome. This complex 1.5-10.9 kilohertz medium-frequency sonar has sufficient power and digital signal processing to enable near-convergence zone detection capability. The first PLAN vessel to use an imported sonar set was the 2002 052B DDG. The 054A frigate in 2006 was the first illegal reverse-engineered version manufactured in China.

The Fregate M2EM 3-D radar offers two channels in E and H bands that can track more than 100 contacts with maximum range of 300 kilometers (200 miles). The equipment and antenna weigh 6.6 tons and 2.3 tons, respectively. It was designed by Salyut Moscow and first provided to China on four 956E ships in 2000. China imported 10 sets of the Fregate 3-D radar, with two placed on 052B DDGs in 2002 and two placed on 051C DDGs in 2006. The first reverse-engineered Chinese copy appeared on the 054A frigate in 2006.

The Russian MR90 missile guidance tracker-illuminator for the SAN-7 Rif-M Shtil SAM was designed by the Altair Marine Radio-Electronics Research Institute JSC. China imported eight S-band MR90s from Russia for four 956E DDGs in 2000. Two MR90 radars were tested for several years on the Chinese experimental ship 891. The first installation of a Chinese copy of the MR90 supported the HQ-16 vertical launch system (VLS) on the 054A in 2000.

This touches on what may be another piece of reverse engineering. The four rectangular VLS modules of the HQ-16 on the 054A appear identical to the U.S. Navy MK 41 VLS, but the United States has not commented on the obvious similarity. The MK 41 has been exported for many years to numerous nations, and a copy could have been expected sooner—such as on the 052C Luyangs. In fact, this rectangular-hatch VLS has been evaluated, along with an MR90 tracking radar, on the 6,000-ton weapon experimental Wuhu-B hull 891 for more than a year. Some experts assumed that this MR90 was a Soviet import, but it probably is the Chinese copy undergoing testing prior to installation on the 054A. Although the type of VLS SAM has not been identified, it would probably be the SAN-7, which is associated with the MR90 illuminator.

The 054A frigate has the Type 730 close-in weapon system (CIWS), based on the Netherlands Goalkeeper, which uses the U.S. GE GAU Phalanx gun. The Type 730 was on the 052B and 052C in 2002 and 2003, and it was on the 051C prior to the 054A frigate in 2006. Type 730 radars are very similar to the Signaal I-band search radar and dual I- and K-band track radar.

These recent stunning reverse-engineering successes do cause complications. One result is that combat system sensors are not matched on the hull and machinery generators, notably for MTU and SEMT diesels. Shaanxi Diesel Plant, also called Factory 408, has been licensed to serially produce French SEMT Pielstick and German MTU series diesels since 1974. In 1989, a second factory, Shanghai Hudong Heavy Machinery Company, was authorized to produce PA6STC diesels. Four of these diesels are on each 054/054A frigate.
SEMT Pielstick PC2-5 series diesels have 6-, 12- and 16-valve models, and MTU 956 diesels have 12-, 16- and 20-valve models (TB82, -32 and -92). The 052A has MTU 12-valve 1163 TB83 diesels, and the 052B has MTU 20-valve 956 TB92 diesels. Chinese factories produced them, and difficulties have been reported with them.
After all of these years, China still imports some SEMT and MTU diesel components from France and Germany. During 2006 and 2007, China imported 15 to 20 sets of German MTU 16-valve and 8-valve 396 SE84 diesels for new submarines such as the modern Yuan diesel boats. The same situation exists with China importing parts for 24 model 16 PA6STC diesels, which were used on the newest 054/054A frigates. Apparently China has not yet successfully produced these submarine or surface ship diesels without imported components.

Other notable Chinese PLAN reverse engineerings of foreign weapon systems include the Crotale/HQ-7/Castor C radar. Two sets of Crotale missile launchers were imported from France in the 1980s. Crotale missile launchers and associated Thomson CSF DRBC 32F Castor C fire control radars were installed on the Luhu DDG 112 in 1991. An upgraded Luda, hull 109 added a topside 8-round reload box aft of the launcher. The six Jiangwei II frigates launched from 1991 to 2000 had HQ-7 by China, with no reload storage. In 2002 the Crotale was replaced with indigenous HQ-7A on DDG 112. The 1993 Luhu DDG 113 and 1997 Luhai DDG 167 HQ-7 had reload rounds in below-deck hatches, which was not even available in French Crotale systems.

Two SS-12 variable depth or dipping sonars were imported from France in 1974. Three SS-12s were installed on Z-9 shipboard helicopters, and in 1987 Haiju craft hulls 688 and 697 replaced aft 57-millimeter guns with the SS-12. China procured one French Thomson CSF TAVITAC CDS computer, which was installed on the Luda I destroyer DD 105 upgrade in 1987. The first Chinese copy of TAVITAC was installed on Luhu DDGs 112 and 113 as the ZJK4 in 1991 and 1993.

China imported 40 A244 torpedoes from Italy around 1980. An improved A244/S was produced in 1984. Reportedly, the A244/S is produced under Italian license as the Yu-7 antisubmarine warfare (ASW) torpedo. Some reports of U.S. Navy MK 44 torpedoes being produced by China could be mistaken because both the MK 44 and the A244 have a similar shroud around the propeller. Some references state that Yu-7 PLAN ASW torpedoes are copies of the U.S. Navy MK 46 Mod 2, four of which were sent to China in 1986 for co-production. Because the sale was below the $14 million Arms Export Control Act threshold, Congress did not review the deal. Negotiations between the United States and China broke down, and Chinese attempts to change the hardware to metric measurements reportedly stopped in 1988.
 
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here is typical way how china do things:

What is chinese original in these 054 frigates except some missiles ?
Almost all of the components are license built from french .Even the engines.

If there is TOT any country will build comparable products and will incorporate their own R&D to make it better. not many TOT were offered to India until very recently. India didn't have the luxury to license build as many components as the chinese used to. But dude now TOT is coming to india.


Read below how 054a was built mostly by stealing foreign technologies.

The Russian state military import/ export agency Rosvoorouzhenie and 956E production Severnoye Design Bureau were shocked and angered when the 054A upgrade to the new People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) 054 frigate appeared in 2006 . At first it appeared to have four Russian-supplied systems that had been on earlier Chinese Luyang guided missile destroyers (DDGs). In reality, the four complex systems were illegal Chinese copies never before seen, and all were on a new serial production series of frigates.


The Sovremennyi high-technology combat systems copied by China on the surprising 2006 054A upgrade are the MGK-335 sonar, the Fregate M2EM three-dimensional (3-D) radar, Mineral ME (Bandstand) tracking radars and the Russian MR90 missile guidance tracker-illuminator for the SAN-7 Rif-M Shtil surface-to-air missile (SAM).

Designed by Morphizpribor Central Research Institute, the complete MGK-335 sonar suite has a towed variable depth sonar (VDS) in addition to its hull array. Because no stern VDS hoist is visible, the Chinese 956E ships must have the reduced MGK 335MS with only the hull sonar dome. This complex 1.5-10.9 kilohertz medium-frequency sonar has sufficient power and digital signal processing to enable near-convergence zone detection capability. The first PLAN vessel to use an imported sonar set was the 2002 052B DDG. The 054A frigate in 2006 was the first illegal reverse-engineered version manufactured in China.

The Fregate M2EM 3-D radar offers two channels in E and H bands that can track more than 100 contacts with maximum range of 300 kilometers (200 miles). The equipment and antenna weigh 6.6 tons and 2.3 tons, respectively. It was designed by Salyut Moscow and first provided to China on four 956E ships in 2000. China imported 10 sets of the Fregate 3-D radar, with two placed on 052B DDGs in 2002 and two placed on 051C DDGs in 2006. The first reverse-engineered Chinese copy appeared on the 054A frigate in 2006.

The Russian MR90 missile guidance tracker-illuminator for the SAN-7 Rif-M Shtil SAM was designed by the Altair Marine Radio-Electronics Research Institute JSC. China imported eight S-band MR90s from Russia for four 956E DDGs in 2000. Two MR90 radars were tested for several years on the Chinese experimental ship 891. The first installation of a Chinese copy of the MR90 supported the HQ-16 vertical launch system (VLS) on the 054A in 2000.

This touches on what may be another piece of reverse engineering. The four rectangular VLS modules of the HQ-16 on the 054A appear identical to the U.S. Navy MK 41 VLS, but the United States has not commented on the obvious similarity. The MK 41 has been exported for many years to numerous nations, and a copy could have been expected sooner—such as on the 052C Luyangs. In fact, this rectangular-hatch VLS has been evaluated, along with an MR90 tracking radar, on the 6,000-ton weapon experimental Wuhu-B hull 891 for more than a year. Some experts assumed that this MR90 was a Soviet import, but it probably is the Chinese copy undergoing testing prior to installation on the 054A. Although the type of VLS SAM has not been identified, it would probably be the SAN-7, which is associated with the MR90 illuminator.

The 054A frigate has the Type 730 close-in weapon system (CIWS), based on the Netherlands Goalkeeper, which uses the U.S. GE GAU Phalanx gun. The Type 730 was on the 052B and 052C in 2002 and 2003, and it was on the 051C prior to the 054A frigate in 2006. Type 730 radars are very similar to the Signaal I-band search radar and dual I- and K-band track radar.

These recent stunning reverse-engineering successes do cause complications. One result is that combat system sensors are not matched on the hull and machinery generators, notably for MTU and SEMT diesels. Shaanxi Diesel Plant, also called Factory 408, has been licensed to serially produce French SEMT Pielstick and German MTU series diesels since 1974. In 1989, a second factory, Shanghai Hudong Heavy Machinery Company, was authorized to produce PA6STC diesels. Four of these diesels are on each 054/054A frigate.
SEMT Pielstick PC2-5 series diesels have 6-, 12- and 16-valve models, and MTU 956 diesels have 12-, 16- and 20-valve models (TB82, -32 and -92). The 052A has MTU 12-valve 1163 TB83 diesels, and the 052B has MTU 20-valve 956 TB92 diesels. Chinese factories produced them, and difficulties have been reported with them.
After all of these years, China still imports some SEMT and MTU diesel components from France and Germany. During 2006 and 2007, China imported 15 to 20 sets of German MTU 16-valve and 8-valve 396 SE84 diesels for new submarines such as the modern Yuan diesel boats. The same situation exists with China importing parts for 24 model 16 PA6STC diesels, which were used on the newest 054/054A frigates. Apparently China has not yet successfully produced these submarine or surface ship diesels without imported components.

Other notable Chinese PLAN reverse engineerings of foreign weapon systems include the Crotale/HQ-7/Castor C radar. Two sets of Crotale missile launchers were imported from France in the 1980s. Crotale missile launchers and associated Thomson CSF DRBC 32F Castor C fire control radars were installed on the Luhu DDG 112 in 1991. An upgraded Luda, hull 109 added a topside 8-round reload box aft of the launcher. The six Jiangwei II frigates launched from 1991 to 2000 had HQ-7 by China, with no reload storage. In 2002 the Crotale was replaced with indigenous HQ-7A on DDG 112. The 1993 Luhu DDG 113 and 1997 Luhai DDG 167 HQ-7 had reload rounds in below-deck hatches, which was not even available in French Crotale systems.

Two SS-12 variable depth or dipping sonars were imported from France in 1974. Three SS-12s were installed on Z-9 shipboard helicopters, and in 1987 Haiju craft hulls 688 and 697 replaced aft 57-millimeter guns with the SS-12. China procured one French Thomson CSF TAVITAC CDS computer, which was installed on the Luda I destroyer DD 105 upgrade in 1987. The first Chinese copy of TAVITAC was installed on Luhu DDGs 112 and 113 as the ZJK4 in 1991 and 1993.

China imported 40 A244 torpedoes from Italy around 1980. An improved A244/S was produced in 1984. Reportedly, the A244/S is produced under Italian license as the Yu-7 antisubmarine warfare (ASW) torpedo. Some reports of U.S. Navy MK 44 torpedoes being produced by China could be mistaken because both the MK 44 and the A244 have a similar shroud around the propeller. Some references state that Yu-7 PLAN ASW torpedoes are copies of the U.S. Navy MK 46 Mod 2, four of which were sent to China in 1986 for co-production. Because the sale was below the $14 million Arms Export Control Act threshold, Congress did not review the deal. Negotiations between the United States and China broke down, and Chinese attempts to change the hardware to metric measurements reportedly stopped in 1988.

You will see less of reverse engineering from year 2009! Why? China had mastered the technology!

Keep it up India! When can you be self sufficient in defence technology:china:
 
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here is typical way how china do things:

What is chinese original in these 054 frigates except some missiles ?
Almost all of the components are license built from french .Even the engines.

If there is TOT any country will build comparable products and will incorporate their own R&D to make it better. not many TOT were offered to India until very recently. India didn't have the luxury to license build as many components as the chinese used to. But dude now TOT is coming to india.


Read below how 054a was built mostly by stealing foreign technologies.

The Russian state military import/ export agency Rosvoorouzhenie and 956E production Severnoye Design Bureau were shocked and angered when the 054A upgrade to the new People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) 054 frigate appeared in 2006 . At first it appeared to have four Russian-supplied systems that had been on earlier Chinese Luyang guided missile destroyers (DDGs). In reality, the four complex systems were illegal Chinese copies never before seen, and all were on a new serial production series of frigates.


The Sovremennyi high-technology combat systems copied by China on the surprising 2006 054A upgrade are the MGK-335 sonar, the Fregate M2EM three-dimensional (3-D) radar, Mineral ME (Bandstand) tracking radars and the Russian MR90 missile guidance tracker-illuminator for the SAN-7 Rif-M Shtil surface-to-air missile (SAM).

Designed by Morphizpribor Central Research Institute, the complete MGK-335 sonar suite has a towed variable depth sonar (VDS) in addition to its hull array. Because no stern VDS hoist is visible, the Chinese 956E ships must have the reduced MGK 335MS with only the hull sonar dome. This complex 1.5-10.9 kilohertz medium-frequency sonar has sufficient power and digital signal processing to enable near-convergence zone detection capability. The first PLAN vessel to use an imported sonar set was the 2002 052B DDG. The 054A frigate in 2006 was the first illegal reverse-engineered version manufactured in China.

The Fregate M2EM 3-D radar offers two channels in E and H bands that can track more than 100 contacts with maximum range of 300 kilometers (200 miles). The equipment and antenna weigh 6.6 tons and 2.3 tons, respectively. It was designed by Salyut Moscow and first provided to China on four 956E ships in 2000. China imported 10 sets of the Fregate 3-D radar, with two placed on 052B DDGs in 2002 and two placed on 051C DDGs in 2006. The first reverse-engineered Chinese copy appeared on the 054A frigate in 2006.

The Russian MR90 missile guidance tracker-illuminator for the SAN-7 Rif-M Shtil SAM was designed by the Altair Marine Radio-Electronics Research Institute JSC. China imported eight S-band MR90s from Russia for four 956E DDGs in 2000. Two MR90 radars were tested for several years on the Chinese experimental ship 891. The first installation of a Chinese copy of the MR90 supported the HQ-16 vertical launch system (VLS) on the 054A in 2000.

This touches on what may be another piece of reverse engineering. The four rectangular VLS modules of the HQ-16 on the 054A appear identical to the U.S. Navy MK 41 VLS, but the United States has not commented on the obvious similarity. The MK 41 has been exported for many years to numerous nations, and a copy could have been expected sooner—such as on the 052C Luyangs. In fact, this rectangular-hatch VLS has been evaluated, along with an MR90 tracking radar, on the 6,000-ton weapon experimental Wuhu-B hull 891 for more than a year. Some experts assumed that this MR90 was a Soviet import, but it probably is the Chinese copy undergoing testing prior to installation on the 054A. Although the type of VLS SAM has not been identified, it would probably be the SAN-7, which is associated with the MR90 illuminator.

The 054A frigate has the Type 730 close-in weapon system (CIWS), based on the Netherlands Goalkeeper, which uses the U.S. GE GAU Phalanx gun. The Type 730 was on the 052B and 052C in 2002 and 2003, and it was on the 051C prior to the 054A frigate in 2006. Type 730 radars are very similar to the Signaal I-band search radar and dual I- and K-band track radar.

These recent stunning reverse-engineering successes do cause complications. One result is that combat system sensors are not matched on the hull and machinery generators, notably for MTU and SEMT diesels. Shaanxi Diesel Plant, also called Factory 408, has been licensed to serially produce French SEMT Pielstick and German MTU series diesels since 1974. In 1989, a second factory, Shanghai Hudong Heavy Machinery Company, was authorized to produce PA6STC diesels. Four of these diesels are on each 054/054A frigate.
SEMT Pielstick PC2-5 series diesels have 6-, 12- and 16-valve models, and MTU 956 diesels have 12-, 16- and 20-valve models (TB82, -32 and -92). The 052A has MTU 12-valve 1163 TB83 diesels, and the 052B has MTU 20-valve 956 TB92 diesels. Chinese factories produced them, and difficulties have been reported with them.
After all of these years, China still imports some SEMT and MTU diesel components from France and Germany. During 2006 and 2007, China imported 15 to 20 sets of German MTU 16-valve and 8-valve 396 SE84 diesels for new submarines such as the modern Yuan diesel boats. The same situation exists with China importing parts for 24 model 16 PA6STC diesels, which were used on the newest 054/054A frigates. Apparently China has not yet successfully produced these submarine or surface ship diesels without imported components.

Other notable Chinese PLAN reverse engineerings of foreign weapon systems include the Crotale/HQ-7/Castor C radar. Two sets of Crotale missile launchers were imported from France in the 1980s. Crotale missile launchers and associated Thomson CSF DRBC 32F Castor C fire control radars were installed on the Luhu DDG 112 in 1991. An upgraded Luda, hull 109 added a topside 8-round reload box aft of the launcher. The six Jiangwei II frigates launched from 1991 to 2000 had HQ-7 by China, with no reload storage. In 2002 the Crotale was replaced with indigenous HQ-7A on DDG 112. The 1993 Luhu DDG 113 and 1997 Luhai DDG 167 HQ-7 had reload rounds in below-deck hatches, which was not even available in French Crotale systems.

Two SS-12 variable depth or dipping sonars were imported from France in 1974. Three SS-12s were installed on Z-9 shipboard helicopters, and in 1987 Haiju craft hulls 688 and 697 replaced aft 57-millimeter guns with the SS-12. China procured one French Thomson CSF TAVITAC CDS computer, which was installed on the Luda I destroyer DD 105 upgrade in 1987. The first Chinese copy of TAVITAC was installed on Luhu DDGs 112 and 113 as the ZJK4 in 1991 and 1993.

China imported 40 A244 torpedoes from Italy around 1980. An improved A244/S was produced in 1984. Reportedly, the A244/S is produced under Italian license as the Yu-7 antisubmarine warfare (ASW) torpedo. Some reports of U.S. Navy MK 44 torpedoes being produced by China could be mistaken because both the MK 44 and the A244 have a similar shroud around the propeller. Some references state that Yu-7 PLAN ASW torpedoes are copies of the U.S. Navy MK 46 Mod 2, four of which were sent to China in 1986 for co-production. Because the sale was below the $14 million Arms Export Control Act threshold, Congress did not review the deal. Negotiations between the United States and China broke down, and Chinese attempts to change the hardware to metric measurements reportedly stopped in 1988.

There is a difference between stealing and reverse engineering. If you are knocking on reverse engineering, it just show that you are not capable of doing that.
 
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There is a difference between stealing and reverse engineering. If you are knocking on reverse engineering, it just show that you are not capable of doing that.

If reverse engineering had been that easy, then half of the countries would have been doing that, rather 90% plus countries.

Reverse engineering is itself very hard process and takes time and intellectualism to successfully reverse engineer something, which itself is a great feat in itself.
 
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please just go to the CD forum, they have photos showing the CJ-10 mounted onto the 054a in its typical green painting.

CJ-10 was originally called DH-10, meaning DongHai-10, it will only surprise me if it can not be fired from our major warships.

:smokin:

btw, there is also an upgraded version of 054a. at least one has already been completed. the wikipeida (which is never a reliable source) mark it as 054b while others call it 054a+.

Oh really? Do u have the web address for the CD thread?
Any ways, I also have a picture of 052C with one of its midsection round missile tube painted green, and it resembles the look of DH-10 that were shown during the national day parade. Do you think that means 052C is also capable of firing DH-10?:china:
 
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You will see less of reverse engineering from year 2009! Why? China had mastered the technology!

Keep it up India! When can you be self sufficient in defence technology:china:

Really ? How do I care?
and why do you care? afraid? Why do you bring India in this frigate discussion ?
What makes you think India is not building frigates ?
 
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There is a difference between stealing and reverse engineering. If you are knocking on reverse engineering, it just show that you are not capable of doing that.

about stealing, we better not talk about it. About reverse engineering without legal copyrights , well also will not talk about it.

Just avoid bringing india into discussion like this unless there is some fear psychosis.
 
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about stealing, we better not talk about it. About reverse engineering without legal copyrights , well also will not talk about it.

Just avoid bringing india into discussion like this unless there is some fear psychosis.

You do not need copy rights to reverse engineer. Because technology should be patented. A missile is not a book or movie or software that it need copy writes. In the US, companies do also reverse engineer. One group of engineer would do the reverse engineering part and write the spec. Another group would engineers would design base on the spec but the result are the same. Why is under the hood is different. I'm not sure about India but this is completely 100% legal in the US.
 
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about stealing, we better not talk about it. About reverse engineering without legal copyrights , well also will not talk about it.

Just avoid bringing india into discussion like this unless there is some fear psychosis.

You should avoid attacking China first!
I really don't know what an Indian thought! First attacking and provoking us, then try to avoid us discussing about india !:cheesy: :sniper:
 
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