Chinese Navy (PLAN) News & Discussions

[ChineseToTheBone]

From the small map in the bottom right corner, it seems our base is only maybe just over a quarter the area of the much larger American base in Djibouti.

 

[JSCh]

Type 901 general supply vessel no. 965 Hulun Hu inducted.

 

[GS Zhou]

Type 901 general supply vessel no. 965 Hulun Hu inducted.

I think in less than 18months time, we can see our carrier battle group with two carriers (type 001 and 002), two type 055 destroyers, four to six 052D destroyers, and two Type 901 supply vessels!!

 

[yusheng]

 

[Han Patriot]

Sort of out of topic, nevertheless India should bear long term disadvantage because of its poor social structure. But the current Chinese leadership does give obvious concession to Modi led India, which is pretty weird to outside observers and has incurred profound criticism from Chinese nationalists. So what you proposed might not be applicable in near future.

If you analyzed it properly, this was a win win situation, on the surface we gave road postponement concession, but don't forget we now militarized Doklam, there is now permanent presence of Chinese troops near Doka La, that is a huge status quo change. As per MOFA statements, both side deescalated, I believe this involved troop reduction from both side and also weapons reduction. Essentially, if there are 200 Indian soldiers on Indian side of the border, there will also be 200 Chinese soldiers there. If there are no mssiles there, China will not put in missiles. Before this, due to its disputed nature, China only patrolled and didn't had permanent presence. Essentially we are now having de facto annexation of Doklam, do you think Bhutanese soldiers will patrol after this incident?

 

[ozranger]

If you analyzed it properly, this was a win win situation, on the surface we gave road postponement concession, but don't forget we now militarized Doklam, there is now permanent presence of Chinese troops near Doka La, that is a huge status quo change. As per MOFA statements, both side deescalated, I believe this involved troop reduction from both side and also weapons reduction. Essentially, if there are 200 Indian soldiers on Indian side of the border, there will also be 200 Chinese soldiers there. If there are no mssiles there, China will not put in missiles. Before this, due to its disputed nature, China only patrolled and didn't had permanent presence. Essentially we are now having de facto annexation of Doklam, do you think Bhutanese soldiers will patrol after this incident?

It is an interesting topic as the then situation was so dramatic. I'd like to add in more of my observation here.

I sort of agree that China is holding full control of that area now solely based on official announcements from both governments. However officially admitting delaying the road construction (some would argue the wording was only implying a postponement as what you said, but I saw most people thought it was very obvious) without clearly stating that it will surely be continued in near future, has changed quite a few things on both sides which could have long term impact.

First thing is Modi can stay in office for longer now. It allows Modi to continue on his reform and disappoints the opposition parties which approached the Chinese embassy in early stage of the stand-off. Therefore China lost useful friends in India by saving Modi.

Interestingly during the stand-off I contacted one Indian friend because of some personal things. He told me at least in his area it was very chaotic as people were on a huge strike, public transport and other services were all stopped. Count in the riot after the conviction of the rapist guru, as well as serious disorders in other places, Modi's administration was in a horrible shape during the time.

Apparently Modi is not welcomed by any other major world power, which is why they didn't pick side during the stand-off although Modi expected their supports, because no one wants a modernized India, even though Modi's reform would likely fail. I can't help but think China's best choice is further embarrassing Modi, taking him down to ensure India stays weak in the competition.

However, by announcing the delay on the road construction, Xi rendered himself at least not smart or competent enough to the Chinese nationalists, especially when India has a salami slicing strategy on the disputed border area which annoys the Chinese online communities from time to time. As such I noticed some very strong criticism in Chinese online communities even under very strict censorship and being deleted very quickly. As what I saw, many felt betrayed by the announcement by Hu Chunying.

Please note that such criticism was not from any western backed puppets such as the utterly stinky FLG, etc. The main stream culture in China rejects anything which could hurt unity (funny the western media don't know about it at all or just ignore it on purpose). So the criticism really matters as it follows the main stream and abides by the growing nationalism.

The rapidly growing nationalism, especially Han nationalism, further fueled by some PLA backed movies recently, passed some strong signals and also raised alerts to government think tanks. I read two of their articles on some online forums including the popular CJDBY. They agreed that the vague statements issued by the foreign ministry caused hard feeling broadly but also criticized the over grown Han nationalism which makes it hard for the government to steer its policies. This Han nationalism is really a double sword to the government.

I personally believe the final handling of the road construction issue counter-stimulated the nationalism.

Further growth of Han nationalism will be more and more interesting to many observers, as what can be seen at this border stand-off, and its implication to future political development of China shall not be ignored.

 

[Jlaw]

If you analyzed it properly, this was a win win situation, on the surface we gave road postponement concession, but don't forget we now militarized Doklam, there is now permanent presence of Chinese troops near Doka La, that is a huge status quo change. As per MOFA statements, both side deescalated, I believe this involved troop reduction from both side and also weapons reduction. Essentially, if there are 200 Indian soldiers on Indian side of the border, there will also be 200 Chinese soldiers there. If there are no mssiles there, China will not put in missiles. Before this, due to its disputed nature, China only patrolled and didn't had permanent presence. Essentially we are now having de facto annexation of Doklam, do you think Bhutanese soldiers will patrol after this incident?

A bad move giving Indian concessions

 

[Han Patriot]

It is an interesting topic as the then situation was so dramatic. I'd like to add in more of my observation here.

I sort of agree that China is holding full control of that area now solely based on official announcements from both governments. However officially admitting delaying the road construction (some would argue the wording was only implying a postponement as what you said, but I saw most people thought it was very obvious) without clearly stating that it will surely be continued in near future, has changed quite a few things on both sides which could have long term impact.

First thing is Modi can stay in office for longer now. It allows Modi to continue on his reform and disappoints the opposition parties which approached the Chinese embassy in early stage of the stand-off. Therefore China lost useful friends in India by saving Modi.

Interestingly during the stand-off I contacted one Indian friend because of some personal things. He told me at least in his area it was very chaotic as people were on a huge strike, public transport and other services were all stopped. Count in the riot after the conviction of the rapist guru, as well as serious disorders in other places, Modi's administration was in a horrible shape during the time.

Apparently Modi is not welcomed by any other major world power, which is why they didn't pick side during the stand-off although Modi expected their supports, because no one wants a modernized India, even though Modi's reform would likely fail. I can't help but think China's best choice is further embarrassing Modi, taking him down to ensure India stays weak in the competition.

However, by announcing the delay on the road construction, Xi rendered himself at least not smart or competent enough to the Chinese nationalists, especially when India has a salami slicing strategy on the disputed border area which annoys the Chinese online communities from time to time. As such I noticed some very strong criticism in Chinese online communities even under very strict censorship and being deleted very quickly. As what I saw, many felt betrayed by the announcement by Hu Chunying.

Please note that such criticism was not from any western backed puppets such as the utterly stinky FLG, etc. The main stream culture in China rejects anything which could hurt unity (funny the western media doesn't know about it at all or ignore it on purpose). So the criticism really matters as it follows the main stream and abides by the growing nationalism.

The rapidly growing nationalism, especially Han nationalism, further fueled by some PLA backed movies recently, passed some strong signals and also raised alerts to government think tanks. I read two of their articles on some online forums including the popular CJDBY. They agreed that the vague statements issued by the foreign ministry caused hard feeling broadly but also criticized the over grown Han nationalism which makes it hard for the government to steer its policies. This Han nationalism is really a double sword to the government.

I personally believe the final handling of the road construction issue counter-stimulated the nationalism.

Further growth of Han nationalism will be more and more interesting to many observers, as what can be seen at this border stand-off, and its implication to future political development of China shall not be ignored.

Don't forget the demonetization screw up by Modi, India under Modi is on fire, the negative sorts of fire. Yes, as a super power, we shouldn't even give a concession, but remember Doklam plateau road is already complete, it is only the portion from Doka La to Gipmochi that is incomplete. Doklam plateau and Doklam are two different things, the strategic portion is only at the top left portion corresponding roughly 30% of the Doklam area, roads are already complete. We forgot India entered not to stop Chinese road construction, it was to destroy the roads in Doklam plateau, they could have stop road construction with kumbaya troops, why the need to bring in two excavators? Obstruction was not the major purpose, road destruction of the completed road in Doklam plateau was the main reason.

Now we have a completed road in Doklam plateau (not Doklam as a whole as the remaining portion are valleys). Essentially we actually did achieve our strategic objectives, on top of that we now have permanent presence there.

A bad move giving Indian concessions

Doklam and Doklam plateau are two different things, China wanted to own Doklam not just the plateau, the road till Doka La essentially already covers the whole Doklam plateau. When we station troops there, we have de-facto control of Doklam plateau. Strategically, it was the plateau that mattered, the last big piece of flat land there facing Siliguri. Use google 3D, the plateau area is only at the top left quarter of Doklam, the rest are essentially river valleys with no strategic use.

So when Indians entered the Doklam plateau area, their main aim was not road obstruction, it was road destruction of the completed roads in Doklam Plateau. Why else do you need to bring in 2 excavsatros, you could have used only kumbaya troops instead.

Map from Indian analyst

Map from Chinese MOFA

 

[cirr]

Type 901 #1 965 "Hulunhu" commissioned on 01.09.2017

Two 901 AOEs rear to rear

 

[ozranger]

Don't forget the demonetization screw up by Modi, India under Modi is on fire, the negative sorts of fire. Yes, as a super power, we shouldn't even give a concession, but remember Doklam plateau road is already complete, it is only the portion from Doka La to Gipmochi that is incomplete. Doklam plateau and Doklam are two different things, the strategic portion is only at the top left portion corresponding roughly 30% of the Doklam area, roads are already complete. We forgot India entered not to stop Chinese road construction, it was to destroy the roads in Doklam plateau, they could have stop road construction with kumbaya troops, why the need to bring in two excavators? Obstruction was not the major purpose, road destruction of the completed road in Doklam plateau was the main reason.

Now we have a completed road in Doklam plateau (not Doklam as a whole as the remaining portion are valleys). Essentially we actually did achieve our strategic objectives, on top of that we now have permanent presence there.



Doklam and Doklam plateau are two different things, China wanted to own Doklam not just the plateau, the road till Doka La essentially already covers the whole Doklam plateau. When we station troops there, we have de-facto control of Doklam plateau. Strategically, it was the plateau that mattered, the last big piece of flat land there facing Siliguri. Use google 3D, the plateau area is only at the top left quarter of Doklam, the rest are essentially river valleys with no strategic use.

So when Indians entered the Doklam plateau area, their main aim was not road obstruction, it was road destruction of the completed roads in Doklam Plateau. Why else do you need to bring in 2 excavsatros, you could have used only kumbaya troops instead.

Map from Indian analyst

Map from Chinese MOFA

I think you missed my point. It is not about what China physically and finally gets in that area. It is about the concession which was given to India by delaying the road construction without clear confirmation to continue the work ignited the fury among the nationalists.

The prominent question is why such a concession can be granted to a government defined invader while, quite the contrary to normal understanding, some punishment hasn't been given. That naturally leads to further questioning to the government's creditability.

People strongly felt betrayed as I saw.

I don't take any position with such observation and I can't say China won't resume the road construction either.

 

[cirr]

The fitting-out of 055 #1 is said to be going extremely well

Sea trials around 2018 Chinese New Year

 

[samsara]

Now get back on the Chinese NAVY / PLAN News....

From OedoSoldier 2017.09.01, the emblem of the replenishment ship Hulun Hu 补给舰呼伦湖的标志 (named after the Hulun Lake in the Inner Mongolia)

 

[Figaro]

The fitting-out of 055 #1 is said to be going extremely well

View attachment 422423

Sea trials around 2018 Chinese New Year

@cirr when was this taken? It must be fairly recent ...

 

[JSCh]

View attachment 422306​

Type 901 general supply vessel no. 965 Hulun Hu inducted.

Look like the official english name is Hulun Nur, since it is a lake in inner Mongolia, therefore the Mongolian name for lake is used.

PLA Navy commissions new supply ship
Editor：Dong Zhaohui Time：2017-09-01

GUANGZHOU, Sept. 1 (ChinaMil) -- An advanced comprensive supply ship Hulun Nur (Hull 965) joined the People's Liberation Army (PLA) Navy in southern China's Guangzhou city on Sept.1, 2017.

Hulun Nur 965 is a new type of comprehensive supply ship independently developed by China using globally advanced technologies.

It is capable of conducting replenishment-at-sea with the aircraft carrier battle group or other ocean-going naval fleet.

Vice admiral Shen Jinlong, commander of the PLA Navy, conferred the military flag and presented a certificate to the new ship.

 

[Han Patriot]

I think you missed my point. It is not about what China physically and finally gets in that area. It is about the concession which was given to India by delaying the road construction without clear confirmation to continue the work ignited the fury among the nationalists.

The prominent question is why such a concession can be granted to a government defined invader while, quite the contrary to normal understanding, some punishment hasn't been given. That naturally leads to further questioning to the government's creditability.

People strongly felt betrayed as I saw.

I don't take any position with such observation and I can't say China won't resume the road construction either.

I agree with you, alot of nationalist are angry, but are they rational? What we got in return on the ground is strategic. I think we should stop trolling on non-naval news.