Chinese Missiles News & Discussions

[j20blackdragon]

Who cares about the DF-21D?

China will completely destroy Yokosuka, Sasebo, and Naval Base Guam.

J-20 and J-15 will handle the remaining surface ships.

Y-8 ASW will handle the submarines.

Any questions?

 

[Alpery]

is this ilustration of MaRV true (post^# 108 l am still waiting)
what I said:
"..if you reduce the speed CIWS can destroy all MaRVs"
if not..you cant move MaRV 1cm left-right at Mach10 within 10km due to inertia laws
Frigates which next of AC will use CIWS ...88 degrees is enougth
you cant find any video because no one designed a crazy 90 degrees attacker anti-ship missilles except chineese

do you know how much wide a tipical AC of USNavy...has DF-21 "0"cm. CEP?

 

[amalakas]

is this ilustration of MaRV true (post^# 108 l am still waiting)
what I said:
"..if you reduce the speed CIWS can destroy all MaRVs"
if not..you cant move MaRV 1cm left-right at Mach10 within 10km due to inertia laws
Frigates which next of AC will use CIWS ...88 degrees is enougth
you cant find any video because no one designed a crazy 90 degrees attacker anti-ship missilles except chineese

do you know how much wide a tipical AC of USNavy...has DF-21 "0"cm. CEP?

I don't know about the rest, but one cannot use CIWS to destroy a Mach 10 warhead. No time, no elevation no nothing.

Who cares about the DF-21D?

China will completely destroy Yokosuka, Sasebo, and Naval Base Guam.

J-20 and J-15 will handle the remaining surface ships.

Y-8 ASW will handle the submarines.

Any questions?

Yes, one.. how old are you?

 

[Martian2]

let's have a look at this:


Temp, 5.0 km/sec in inertial frame, 100 km starting altitude

It shows heating is not during the troposphere descent.
In actual fact it shows the opposite.

Your graph is irrelevant.

It does not show the temperature of a Mach 10 warhead at an altitude of 1 through 10km.

Your graph is only relevant for a supersonic warhead that transitions to a sub-sonic speed. It is useless in a discussion of a Mach 10 hypersonic warhead.

I'm talking about apples (hypersonic Mach 10 warhead in troposphere) and you put up a graph about oranges (supersonic warhead transitioning to subsonic speed in troposphere).

 

[grey boy 2]

Martian2 pal, check this out (his source:Reentry Heating) it will eventually unveil his trick.

 

[amalakas]

Martian2 pal, check this out (his source:Reentry Heating) it will eventually unveil his trick.

errmmm which trick exactly are you referring at ?

 

[j20blackdragon]

Yes, one.. how old are you?

I'm old enough to realize the DF-41 can destroy 10 cities per missile.

If you must worry about a DF series missile, worry about the DF-41 instead.

 

[amalakas]

Your graph is irrelevant.

It does not show the temperature of a Mach 10 warhead at an altitude of 1 through 10km.

Your graph is only relevant for a supersonic warhead that transitions to a sub-sonic speed. It is useless in a discussion of a Mach 10 hypersonic warhead.

I'm talking about apples (hypersonic Mach 10 warhead in troposphere) and you put up a graph about oranges (supersonic warhead transitioning to subsonic speed in troposphere).

No 5 km / sec is faster than your warhead, but yes, it slows down considerably after, so well fine if you want to look at it this way, it's ok, I'll accept that, it is not unreasonable to say so.

so the warhead reaches the troposphere at Mach 10, I am game with that. So, it didn't heat up at all before like the example in the graph? You mean it had low temperatures before ? what was its velocity before the 10km zone?

Re heating commences at roughly 60 km and is about 2000 Celcius. That is not hot ?

I'm old enough to realize the DF-41 can destroy 10 cities per missile.

If you must worry about a DF series missile, worry about the DF-41 instead.

I am worried about that missile.

But I am worried about your fascination with missiles too. Maybe you should get that looked at by a professional.


friendly advice.

 

[Martian2]

No 5 km / sec is faster than your warhead, but yes, it slows down considerably after, so well fine if you want to look at it this way, it's ok, I'll accept that, it is not unreasonable to say so.

so the warhead reaches the troposphere at Mach 10, I am game with that. So, it didn't heat up at all before like the example in the graph? You mean it had low temperatures before ? what was its velocity before the 10km zone?

Re heating commences at roughly 60 km and is about 2000 Celcius. That is not hot ?

You are barking up the wrong tree

You are barking up the wrong tree. The graph looks like the flight profile for the space shuttle. A Mach 10 hypersonic warhead does not share the same flight profile as a space shuttle.

A ballistic-shaped DF-21D ASBM warhead will lose very little speed as gravity keeps pulling on the warhead. It will never slow down to a subsonic speed as shown in your posted graph.

Quote from your source:

"There is a certain amount of kinetic energy in your reentry vehicle that will be converted to heat as it comes through the atmosphere. How much of the heat goes into the vehicle depends on the trajectory flown and the size and shape of the vehicle. The choice of trajectory is limited by the realities of lift, drag, and mass of the vehicle."

[Note: Thank you to Greyboy2 for the article link, which Amalakas shamefully hid and for good reason. It is only applicable to a hypersonic vehicle transitioning to subsonic speeds.]

 

[amalakas]

You are barking up the wrong tree

You are barking up the wrong tree. The graph looks like the flight profile for the space shuttle. A Mach 10 hypersonic warhead does not share the same flight profile as a space shuttle.

A ballistic-shaped DF-21D ASBM warhead will lose very little speed as gravity keeps pulling on the warhead. It will never slow down to a subsonic speed as shown in your posted graph.

Quote from your source:



[Note: Thank you to Greyboy2 for the article link, which Amalakas shamefully hid and for good reason. It is only applicable to a hypersonic vehicle transitioning to subsonic speeds.]

On the shameful bit, think what you like.

On the other bit, I think you are not following what you are saying. The point was heat!

a few posts up, you responded to someone telling him that, and I quote you..

Before entering the troposphere, the radar and infrared detectors on the DF-21D can identify the location of its target. The target will be struck in 3 seconds. How far do you think a ship can move in 3 seconds? Also, the DF-21D's detectors can probably track the moving ship and predict its exact location in the next three seconds.

The heat caused by entering the troposphere is irrelevant to a DF-21D warhead.

You hint that the heat from friction is only in Troposphere and there is insignificant heat before, I am asking you clearly, is that what you are saying ?

 

[Martian2]

You hint that the heat from friction is only in Troposphere and there is insignificant heat before, I am asking you clearly, is that what you are saying ?

Yes, for a ballistic-shaped re-entry vehicle. Not a planar space shuttle.

Want me to post a video of burning/glowing MIRVs in the troposphere for you?

 

[amalakas]

Yes, for a ballistic-shaped re-entry vehicle. Not a planar space shuttle.

Want me to post a video of burning/glowing MIRVs in the troposphere for you?

So, for a ballistic missile shape vehicle, significant friction only happens in the troposphere. Fine ,

however this contradicts what you are saying.


Re-enter The DF-21D ASBM | USNI Blog

on the reentry vehicle correspondingly grow, but not at a 1:1 pace. For example, at 200,000 ft (the point at which re-entry begins) thermal loading on an ICBM-class RV will cause the tip to experience temperatures in excess of 3,500 deg.F

Note: 200K feet is 60Km and 3500 F is ~1930 Celcius.

have a read.

 

[Martian2]

So, for a ballistic missile shape vehicle, significant friction only happens in the troposphere. Fine ,

however this contradicts what you are saying.


Re-enter The DF-21D ASBM | USNI Blog


Note: 200K feet is 60Km and 3500 F is ~1930 Celcius.

have a read.

Big deal. The ASBM enters the atmosphere at 63km. What's the temperature before impact? It's higher. You have proven nothing.

 

[amalakas]

Big deal. The ASBM enters the atmosphere at 63km. What's the temperature before impact? It's higher. You have proven nothing.

Are we driving in circles or is it my impression.

If I have proven nothing and the temperature is higher (and you don't care) why the hell did you even post what you posted to the other guy ?

makes no sense.

also.. side note ..

if the temperature is higher throughout, then IR cannot be used.

Also, if the temperature is higher, and especially as you said during the latter stages, then, the re-entry friction creates a plasma field around the warhead as indicated by your :

Yes, for a ballistic-shaped re-entry vehicle. Not a planar space shuttle.

Want me to post a video of burning/glowing MIRVs in the troposphere for you?

We all know that stops EM radiation -shuttle like- .. so a radar guidance will be hampered..

so what gives ?

unless you are not saying what you are saying ...

 

[Martian2]

Are we driving in circles or is it my impression.

If I have proven nothing and the temperature is higher (and you don't care) why the hell did you even post what you posted to the other guy ?

makes no sense.

1. My statement regarding physics is correct.

2. The high temperature at a high altitude excludes infrared detection by the warhead. We are still left with radar detection or relay of coordinates from an external sensor.

If we are still discussing point number one then your citation proves nothing.

If we are discussing point number two then infrared detection by the warhead has been ruled out.

----------

I will give you one out of three points.

a. Your first graph was irrelevant. (0 point)

b. Your argument about the majority of friction-induced heating was wrong. (0 point)

c. I didn't know the significant heating started at 63km, instead of 10km. (1 point)

Still don't like you.