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Chinese missile tunnels and fallout shelters.True or false?

Safriz

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"The Underground Great Wall" tunnel network, which plays an important role in China's nuclear deterrence capability by enabling China to have a survivable second strike ability, while simultaneously masking the true number of China's nuclear arsenal. By 2011, the "Underground Great Wall" is reported to amass 3500 miles in total, hiding an estimated number of 2500 to 3000 nuclear warheads. The "Underground Great Wall" also hides underground production/enrichment facilities and nuclear reactors for additional warhead production. The DongFeng 21D is the latest version of the high tech missiles that are possessed by the Government of China. The missile has been developed recently. It has been designed and formed in the Peoples Republic of China. It has the ability to destroy any aircraft carrier whether it is in motion or halt. The new missile has created a lot of tension in the minds of the Americans as this latest weapon has become a severe threat to their aircraft carriers. The pentagon is discussing the whole issue and chalking out its future strategies.
The missile has the ability to destroy a target which is present within one thousand four hundred and forty four kilometres. There is still a possibility that it can hit far more than that and it has not been revealed as a war strategy. The huge distance which this missile can easily cover is quite a worry for the Americans. The US aircraft carriers are believed to be very strong and cannot be destroyed with the help of small bombs and missiles. But it is believed that this missile has the ability to penetrate through the American ships and destroy them.
The Chinese people are very happy to produce DongFeng 21D. The DongFeng 21D shall surely help the Chinese forces in the coming time.
 
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based on a discredited and derided study
 
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If you are referring to underground structures and reserves to fight a nuclear war, then it is true. China spent two decades preparing to fight a nuclear war with USSR, so there are definitely infrastructures for that.

However, if you are referring to the number of nuclear warheads, then there is no evidence for it. A nation's nuclear capacity is one of the best guarded secret.

Personally, I don't believe China is hiding 3000+ nuclear warheads and the reason is cost. Maintaining nuclear weapons is a quite costly endeavor. Since the existing China nuclear strike power is sufficient as deterrent, there is no need to have much more than that.
 
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If you are referring to underground structures and reserves to fight a nuclear war, then it is true. China spent two decades preparing to fight a nuclear war with USSR, so there are definitely infrastructures for that.

However, if you are referring to the number of nuclear warheads, then there is no evidence for it. A nation's nuclear capacity is one of the best guarded secret.

Personally, I don't believe China is hiding 3000+ nuclear warheads and the reason is cost. Maintaining nuclear weapons is a quite costly endeavor. Since the existing China nuclear strike power is sufficient as deterrent, there is no need to have much more than that.

there was an entire "third line" built specifically for fighting the soviet union, where the cpc expected basically all the border areas to be overrun-ed, and possibly the destruction or capture of most of the traditional industrial areas, thus built many plants and factories in the rural and mountainous areas, including nuclear plants that were basically built into the mountains.

many of these old tunnel/cave factories can actually be visited today as they are no longer in use, since the soviet threat disappeared and china no longer fears any land invasion by anyone. so the thousands of miles of tunnels are definitely there and many are still being used.

and as tranquilium says, i dont believe in the 3000 warheads either, just because the tunnels have the capacity to hold that many, does not mean there are actually that many there. A few hundred, so long as it can survive a 1st strike and retaliate is good enough, the tunnels just help in the surviving 1st strike part of that.
 
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TAIPEI — The U.S. military must consider both conventional and
nuclear capabilities to “neutralize” China’s underground nuclear
weapons storage facilities, according to a Pentagon authorization
signed into law. The new National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA), signed by U.S.
President Barack Obama on Jan. 2, orders the Commander of the U.S.
Strategic Command (STRATCOM) to submit a report by Aug. 15 on the
“underground tunnel network used by the People’s Republic of China
with respect to the capability of the United States to use conventional
and nuclear forces to neutralize such tunnels and what is stored within such tunnels.” A Georgetown University team led by Phillip Karber conducted a
three-year study to map out China’s complex tunnel system, which
stretches 3,000 miles. The 2011 report, “Strategic Implications of China’s Underground Great
Wall,” concluded that the number of nuclear weapons estimated by
U.S. intelligence was incorrect. His team estimated that as many as
3,000 nuclear weapons could be hidden within a vast labyrinth in
several locations in China. U.S. intelligence estimates have been
reporting consistently that China had, at the most, 300 nuclear warheads in its arsenal. Karber’s report presents evidence of a complex system of tunnels in
areas noted for nuclear testing and storage — a far greater
subterranean cavity than needed for just 300 nuclear weapons. NDAA sections 1045, 1271 and 3119 all highlight U.S. congressional
concerns over China’s nuclear and military modernization efforts.
Bonnie Glaser, a China specialist at the Center for Strategic and
International Studies, doubts these sections of the NDAA will have
major policy consequences for U.S.-China relations: “The intelligence
community tracks China’s nuclear weapons closely — is a federally funded research and development center going to find a new
threat?” Overall, Glaser believes the new reporting requirements are a reaction
to Karber’s work, making him one of a few lonely challengers to
suggest that U.S. intelligence estimates are wrong. The NDAA-directed report by STRATCOM must include identification of
the knowledge gaps regarding such nuclear weapons programs and
a discussion of the implications of any such gaps for the security of
the U.S. The report must also assess the nuclear deterrence strategy of China,
including a historical perspective and the geopolitical drivers of such
strategy, and a detailed description of the nuclear arsenal, including
the number of nuclear weapons capable of being delivered at
intercontinental range. The report will also include a comparison of the nuclear forces of the
U.S. and China, projections of the possible future nuclear arsenals of
China, a description of command-and-control functions and gaps,
assessment of the fissile material stockpile of China, and its civil and
military production capabilities and capacities. Karber takes little credit for the NDAA requirements, which many
have begun calling the “Karber effect.” “I believe a number of events,
not least of which being Chinese testing and deployment patterns,
have motivated this tasking, and I will leave to others to assess what
part our research played in stimulating or adding motivation to it,”
Karber said. Naysayers and skeptics of Karber’s conclusions abound. The language
in the NDAA reflects several things, said Hans Kristensen, director,
Nuclear Information Project, Federation of American Scientists. These include a general concern and fascination with Chinese military
modernization; fallout from the Karber study; claims by Karber and
retired Russian Col. Gen. Viktor Esin that China has 3,600 nuclear
warheads, which Kristensen views as erroneous and rejected by
STRATCOM; lobbying by the U.S.-China Economic and Security Review
Commission, which “see China as a small Soviet Union”; and “frustration among some, myself included, that the U.S. intelligence
community and military is becoming more secretive about what it
says about Chinese nuclear capabilities.” Kristensen said this gradually increases the dangers of war between
China and the U.S. “The two countries are dancing a dangerous dance
that will increase military tension and could potentially lead to a small
Cold War in the Pacific.” He said most of the U.S. Navy’s ballistic-missile submarine force is
operating in the Pacific, nuclear bomber squadrons periodically
deploy to Guam and recently extended tours from three to six
months, and more naval forces are being shifted into the Pacific. The final question many analysts are asking is, how does the U.S.
“use conventional and nuclear forces to neutralize such tunnels and
what is stored within such tunnels”? Tests of low-yield earth-
penetrating nuclear weapons such as the B61-11 have been
disappointing with low penetration results. It is unclear if the Robust
Nuclear Earth Penetrator program or the improved B61-12 have solved the problem, but given the locations, lengths and various
depths of the tunnel system outlined in Karber’s report, more than
one bomb would be needed to eliminate the threat. So what has got the U.S. Congress so spooked about China’s
underground tunneling program? Karber’s conclusions read like
Cormac McCarthy’s post-apocalyptic novel, “The Road.” Karber’s paper estimates in 2020-plus that China’s true nuclear
arsenal, if used against the U.S. as a “counter-value attack,” would
inflict 50 million direct casualties; plus-or-minus 50 percent would
suffer radiation sickness ranging from debilitating to life-shortening;
two-thirds of the 7,569 hospitals would be destroyed or inoperable
and half the physicians would themselves be casualties. One-third of the electrical generation capacity and 40 percent of the national food
producing agricultural land would be destroyed or exposed to
significant residual radiation. 100 million Americans would face
starvation within the first 10 years of the initial attack. “Bottom line,” Karber’s report said, “200 million lost, and surviving
Americans will be living in the dark, on a subsistence diet, with a life
style and life expectancy equivalent to the Dark Ages.”

http://www.defensenews.com/article/20130105/DEFREG02/301050003/New-U-S-Law-Seeks-Answers-Chinese-Nuke-Tunnels
 
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Orders for the Commander of the US
Strategic Command (STRATCOM) to
submit a report on means of nullifying
China’s underground tunnel network
were outlined in the new National
Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) signed by President Barack Obama on January 2. The NDAA-directed report will further seek to identify
knowledge gaps regarding China’s nuclear weapons
programs, a request which was likely spurred by a
controversial 2011 study out of Georgetown University
entitled “Strategic Implications of China’s Underground Great
Wall.” The researchers claimed that China’s Second Artillery Corps, a
secretive branch of the country’s military tasked with
protecting and deploying its ballistic missiles and nuclear
warheads, had dug some 3,000 miles of tunnels which
currently housed up to 3,000 nuclear warheads – ten times US
intelligence estimates. The report drew a firestorm of criticism via its unconventional
Internet-based research methods, which relied on Google
Earth, blogs, military journals and even a fictional television
program about Chinese artillery soldiers, to reach its
conclusions. But the questionable conclusions of the Georgetown report
and Washington’s drive to more properly assess China’s
military capability, are more reflective of Washington’s own
‘nuclear strategy’ than Beijing’s ambitions, James Corbett,
editor of the Japanese-based Corbett Report news website,
argues. RT: The U.S. government is operating on the assumption that there are three thousand kilometers worth of tunnels
crisscrossing China. Is that something you'd find believable? James Corbett: Well, I’m not even sure that the US government really believes it. This is really on the back of a study that was
commissioned out of George Town University last year – or
two years ago now – that found that in this network of
tunnels that we do know exist and can see from satellite
telemetry…and it’s just sheer speculation what exists within
them at this point. US intelligence estimates puts the Chinese nuclear arsenal at 300 but this study out of George Town in
2011 estimated that it could house as many as 3,000 nuclear
warheads. So basically as part of the NDAA [National Defense
Authorization Act] 2013 they’re basically saying that now
STRATCOM is going to have to issue a report to identify the
potential problems involved in this and whether or not they’ll be able to confront this with conventional or nuclear forces in
the event that they actually need to take action. RT:We've got most of America’s ballistic submarines, we’ve also got more US ships moving to the Pacific, the Pentagon all
the while promising to contain China, and now planning for a
possible nuclear strike. That's not exactly going to help already
strained relations, is it? JC: It really isn’t. I don’t think we have to look at this report within the context of their going to move in with a nuclear
strike right at this point but I think it has to be seen as a wider
part of US nuclear policy that’s been stretching out for decades
now, trying to come up with ways to justify the existence of
some of the US’ existing nuclear arsenal and looking for ways
to create new weapons. So, for example, we have the B61-11 nuclear bunker busters with a 400 kiloton yield that they’ve
been harboring and talking about for the better part of a
decade now in relation to Iran and trying to bust through into
Iran’s underground nuclear facilities or alleged nuclear
facilities. Now they’re just shifting that rhetoric over to the
Asia-Pacific as part of this Asia-Pacific pivot. I think to a certain extent this is just to justify the existence of the US arsenal and
to make sure that things like the new START –the strategic
arms reduction treaty – basically gets scuttled before it gets off
of the ground. And there’s a lot in this new NDAA that really
seeks to undermine the president’s ability should he ever
want to actually reduce the nuclear stockpile. So I think the congress is definitely trying to get their foot in the door and
stop any types of arms reductions before they can actually be
implemented. RT:There are certainly some who say that the American president is powerless when going head to head with the
military industrial complex. We’ve been getting reports that
there have been some rather peculiar, high altitude jet forays
between China and Japan, some Japanese jets tailing Chinese
jets, basically playing high altitude games of cat and mouse,
possibly reigniting another territorial dispute. Is it possible that those two could get involved in something slightly more
intense? JC: It certainly could, and of course the more bellicose that the US becomes against China, the more safe Japan will feel in
either threatening or responding to these aggressions. So I
think it really only serves to put a match next to this powder
keg that is the Asia-Pacific region, especially now that this
really is heating up and that the American is turning here,
we’re going to see more and more of these types of situations come along that could justify even further military
intervention. So we have to look at the types of nuclear
rhetoric that is coming out right now as not necessarily an
intent to strike soon, but [as something] to keep our eyes on
as this rhetoric continues to ratchet up.
 
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Very informative thread about Chinese underground great wall. But in my opinion it is little blown out of proportion.
 
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