Chinese & Indians in old Arab travelers' accounts

[dravidianhero]

@Tsherring22
do buddhists in north east eat beef?i read buddhists in china,thailand,korea eat beef whereas srilankan and cambodian buddhists dont.i know there is no ruling in buddhism which prevents beef eating but as buddhism is a dharmic religion i want to know where you people stand

 

[Tshering22]

@Tsherring22
do buddhists in north east eat beef?i read buddhists in china,thailand,korea eat beef whereas srilankan and cambodian buddhists dont.i know there is no ruling in buddhism which prevents beef eating but as buddhism is a dharmic religion i want to know where you people stand

Well here we have Yak meat which is famous because of the harsh Himalayan climate, especially with those who live in north areas of Sikkim and Arunachal.

Traditionally, Buddhists didn't eat non-veg as a whole (Shaolin monks in China even today are hardcore vegetarians) but these days the whole non-vegetarian thingy has become more of a personal choice now.


Water buffalo meat is most prevalent in Northeast and beef (cow meat) is eaten among the Christians and other shamanists as well.

I am a non-vegetarian but don't eat beef because I respect the sentiments of our Hindu brethren.

I was watching an old video from Sikkim by a British journalist from 1960s where Sikkim's Emperor was fearing constant threat from China and they were even training kids in school how to hide in trenches in the case of Chinese invasion of Sikkim.

Yeah.

It was a bad time during those day. My grandfather and dad used to tell me of that lurking danger.

Although many of our northern villagers also fought them and helped the Indian Army of then alongside the RSS from other parts of the country.

 

[INDIC]

Man, I think you're referring to the Sanskrit term "Cina". Which is pronounced as 'Chee-na'.

In Chinese language, there is no 'China'.

They refer to themselves as something Zhonghuo, which (Chinese folks can correct me if I am wrong) is something like the 'Middle Kingdom'.

Just like there is no 'India' and it is a colonial term whereas officially our country is Bharat, China seems more like a colonial imposition.

But it is possible that the Brits might have got the idea from those who spoke local languages here because mostly China is referred to as 'Cheen' in Hindi.

Kirata also become Kirat, Nepalese use the word Kirat for themselves in modern time. Many ancient Indian words were replaces by Persian words. Greeks were called Yavana/Yona by ancient Indians are now referred with Persian word Yunani. Persian/Arabic word for China is Cheen too.

 

[Fattyacids]

tell us how the name China originated and who were first to use the word. Mahabharat is one of the most ancient books in the world.

Persian have had contact with China via Silk Road since Qin Dynasty. To say the word came from Mahabharat is quite a stretch, given that Mahabharat is not a one author book, it's final version was completed as late as 7th century AD. God knows which passage or which version did word came from. In Persian, it's Chini, Sanskrit Cina. The exact China was Portuguese.

 

[Fattyacids]

I don't know about any earlier reference to Chinese people apart from Mahabharat but you will find Chinese won't agree to Indian origin of the word China from Cina.

If it is supported by facts, Chinese have no qualms accepting it. Problem is most of these claims by Indians are either grossly exaggerated or fake.

 

[INDIC]

Persian have had contact with China via Silk Road since Qin Dynasty. To say the word came from Mahabharat is quite a stretch, given that Mahabharat is not a one author book, it's final version was completed as late as 7th century AD. God knows which passage or which version did word came from. In Persian, it's Chini, Sanskrit Cina. The exact China was Portuguese.

The name `China’ comes from the Sanskrit Cina (derived from the name of the Chinese Qin Dynasty, pronounced `Chin’) which was translated as `Cin’ by the Persians and seems to have become popularized through trade along the Silk Road from China to the rest of the world. The Romans and the Greeks knew the country as `Seres’, “the land where silk comes from”. The name `China’ does not appear in print in the west until 1516 CE in Barbosa’s journals narrating his travels in the east (though the Europeans had long known of China through trade via the Silk Road).
China -- Ancient History Encyclopedia

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

Arabs had trade relations with Indians across Konkan and Malabar coast, they learnt the use of spices in food from Indians. Many translated manuscript of Indian discoveries were once preserved in the house of wisdom.

I know but most of the traveller accounts describe Pakistani region. Its not like the culture used to be the same all around South Asia.

 

[Wholegrain]

Kirata also become Kirat, Nepalese use the word Kirat for themselves in modern time. Many ancient Indian words were replaces by Persian words. Greeks were called Yavana/Yona by ancient Indians are now referred with Persian word Yunani. Persian/Arabic word for China is Cheen too.

The derogatory word Chams and Cambodians use for Vietnamese is Yuon and it derives from the same word for Greek, Yavana. Chams and Cambodians insult Vietnamese by calling them Greeks.

In fact the Cham used "Yavana" to describe the country of Vietnam.

Man, I think you're referring to the Sanskrit term "Cina". Which is pronounced as 'Chee-na'.

In Chinese language, there is no 'China'.

They refer to themselves as something Zhonghuo, which (Chinese folks can correct me if I am wrong) is something like the 'Middle Kingdom'.

Just like there is no 'India' and it is a colonial term whereas officially our country is Bharat, China seems more like a colonial imposition.

But it is possible that the Brits might have got the idea from those who spoke local languages here because mostly China is referred to as 'Cheen' in Hindi.

The difference is, in Chinese language we don't use the word China, but in Hindi you use the word "Hind" (India) which was created by central asian Muslim conquerors.

 

[INDIC]

The difference is, in Chinese language we don't use the word China, but in Hindi you use the word "Hind" (India) which was created by central asian Muslim conquerors.

The Hindi word for India is Bharat and 'Bharat Ganrajya' means Republic of India. Hind or Hindustan is also used as loanwards. Hind and Hindustan were coined by Persians.

 

[INDIC]

The derogatory word Chams and Cambodians use for Vietnamese is Yuon and it derives from the same word for Greek, Yavana. Chams and Cambodians insult Vietnamese by calling them Greeks.

In fact the Cham used "Yavana" to describe the country of Vietnam.

No idea about it. We now use the word Yavan for Greeks in refined Hindi but Yunani is more frequent. Chams originated from the word Champa. Champa was the once the capital of 'Anga' region of India.

 

[darkhero]

@Tsherring22
do buddhists in north east eat beef?i read buddhists in china,thailand,korea eat beef whereas srilankan and cambodian buddhists dont.i know there is no ruling in buddhism which prevents beef eating but as buddhism is a dharmic religion i want to know where you people stand

Real Buddhists do not eat any meat and several kinds of vegetable such as green onion in China. A strict Buddhist should not eat egg too.

Definitely today most monks are faked, it is just a way to collect money. Don't surprise if you see them eating meat and drinking beer.

 

[Okemos]

India was known as Sindu (身毒）in the Records of Grand Historian (109BC-90BC) by Sima Qian. It was then known as 天竺during early Tang Dynasty but was at that time pronounced sianzu. Xuanzang finalized India as Indu（印度）。　I didn't know the name Indu has such long history!

Regarding vegetarian diet in Buddhism, as far as I know, it is only practiced in northern school of Buddhism, also known as Mahayana, Great Vehicle, that was transformed in China and spread to Korea and Japan. South East Asia or Lesser Vehicle Buddhism has no such tradition. In traditional Chinese Buddhist teaching, Lamaism or Tibetan Buddhism as we know it today was forbidden form of Buddhism or was not even recognized as Buddhism by some because it mixes with Bon, Tibetan shamanistic practice. I know the last part was controversial in modern day politics.

Real Buddhists do not eat any meat and several kinds of vegetable such as green onion in China. A strict Buddhist should not eat egg too.

Definitely today most monks are faked, it is just a way to collect money. Don't surprise if you see them eating meat and drinking beer.

That is not true. Only Chinese Buddhism practices vegetarian diet.

 

[Wholegrain]

No idea about it. We now use the word Yavan for Greeks in refined Hindi but Yunani is more frequent. Chams originated from the word Champa. Champa was the once the capital of 'Anga' region of India.

Yuon is also spelled as Youn.

The sources are here.

From Ionia to Vietnam, National, Phnom Penh Post

Udaya - Google Books

Rethinking Cultural Resource Management in Southeast Asia: Preservation ... - Google Books

The Vermilion Bird - Edward Hetzel Schafer - Google Books

Encyclopedia of Ancient Asian Civilizations - Charles Higham - Google Books

http://www.lib.washington.edu/SouthEastAsia/vsg/elist_2009/Yuan and Mien.html

This means Indic culture, including Sanskrit and Hinduism only spread to southeast asia after Indians made contact with the Greeks. From Sanskrit the Hindu Cham (now there are both Muslim and Hindu Cham) and Hindu Khmer (Cambodians, who were later entirely converted to Buddhism from Hinduism.) got the word Yavana and then they applied it to the Vietnamese. Yavana got corrupted into Yuon or Youn, with Yavana being used to decrive Vietnam and Youn used to describe Vietnamese and Youn acquired a derogatory meaning.

There goes Enemy's BS theory on Hinduism being in southeast asia since the "cro magnons" invaded.

"History of South-East Asia" by D.G.E. Hall is a good book to read if you want to find out how Indic culture including Sanskrit, Indic alphabets, and Hinduism and Buddhism spread to southeast asia. In fact its a good work for the entire history of the region. It was after the birth of Christ 2,000 years ago when Hinduism, Buddhism and Indic culture and writing started spreading to southeast asia. It wasn't there in really ancient times, like when Alexander the Great was around. There are still animist minorities in mainland southeast asia which were not Hinduized or Buddhisizdd in Vietnam and Laos.

Whenever me or southeast asians tried having civilized discussions online about this with Indians, the Indians just came up with insults on how savage the southeast asians were before Indic civilization was introduced. I hope that doesn't happen here.

 

[Rechoice]

The derogatory word Chams and Cambodians use for Vietnamese is Yuon and it derives from the same word for Greek, Yavana. Chams and Cambodians insult Vietnamese by calling them Greeks.

In fact the Cham used "Yavana" to describe the country of Vietnam.



The difference is, in Chinese language we don't use the word China, but in Hindi you use the word "Hind" (India) which was created by central asian Muslim conquerors.

Yuon – racist?

Let us consider only the issue of language and the word used by Cambodians for the people of Vietnam: yuon. This remains a bone of contention because many non-Khmer have argued that the word is fundamentally racist in common parlance.

The word yuon may have come from the word yueh, what the Mandarin Chinese call Vietnam, yueh nam. The word nam means south in Chinese. Yueh indicates the name of the people of that region. Therefore, yueh means Viet or Vietnamese in Chinese, and yueh nam means the yueh people of the south. In this case, south means south of China. South Vietnam pronounces it yeaknam.

Chou Ta-Kuan (Zhou Daguan), the celebrated Chinese ambassador to Cambodia in the 13th century, indicated in his report that there was already a large population of Chinese settling in Cambodia at that time. He said that the Chinese preferred life in the Khmer Empire because it was easier than in China. There were a lot of Chinese men marrying the native Cambodian women. The word yuon may have derived from the Chinese word yueh to indicate the Vietnamese.

Read more.
What

 

[The SC]

The Arab traders and travellers, described what they have seen and learned from the general populations and from the ruling families of that time, about that time, not before, and not after.
They were more objective and unbiased in their descriptions of the two nations they came in contact with in time and space than most people posting about India and china in this thread.
It does not mean that they have not been other more advanced civilisations whom have passed by those lands 10s of thousands of years before; like in describing the Arabs in their lands at that time, anyone would have probably jumped the Assyrian, Babylonian and the Egyptian civilizations...