Chinese FM arrives on 29th to discuss Pak-US deadlock

[Raje amar]

I dont understand why China need to loby for US to end the deadlock on the land rout issue between US & Pakistan.????????????

 

[batmannow]

I dont understand why China need to loby for US to end the deadlock on the land rout issue between US & Pakistan.????????????

No, china isn't pushing , pakistan to open the landline for america, as long as americans, were engaged in afghanistan, & in Iraq! China is getting higher & higher economicly!
Problem here is , our cia supported , media!
Our so, called independent media, is geting crazy, over derailling of , our one sided relationship, with america,pAkistan wasn't, able to stop, drones , even with ,its 1000 requests, thn , ISI caught , raymond davis, from him, they got, the clue of, former pakistan ,ammbasdor. HUSSAIN. HAQANI, who was working with, cia on a, horrible project to, have a surgical opps, in pakistan, in which, main security, officials were the, targets, after which ,pakistan could get ready, to give its nukes to, usa, & all this scandle was blown by , mansoor Ijaz( a american born pakistani) , who had suspected, links to many, of secret security**agencies in the, world.
HUSSAIN haqani was protected, by prime minster, & president of pakistan , in the endn he left, pakistan with , the intense preasure by, politicaly elected prime minster & president of pakistan on the militry chief, who decided to, stop all this episode of traitorships falling , into the hands of media , because higher anti-american atitude by some, religious groups, who looking, for a reason, to put preasure, on army to cut, its relationship with usa.
ISI & 80% of, pakistanis demanded , a long waited apology from usa for the, killings of its soilders by ISAF forces, on salalaa checkpost on the boder area between, pakistan & afghanistan, which wasn't been accepted by usa,last chance was NATO summit, in chicago, where pakistani president with the, preasure of army, went to have a meeting, with US president OBAMA, who never gave him any chance?
So, pakistan is looking forward, the ride with cowboy is over, & pakistan is ready, to move ahead, with its all, weather friend china, who is telling pakistan to clean , itS crupt politicians , & get reAdy to stand up, with its new, partners India, Iran, russia, china, burma, north korea!
That's why, we. Are wittnessing fast track , negociations, with india! DR chiStti,s. Freedom was , bieng seen very, positive sign, & same gesture couldbe seen once, indian prime minster will, arrive on state visit of islamabad.
Pakistan has busted, local spy network, of black waters & gave shakil afridi,33 years of massive, sentence,well ! I guss, its time to, see things from our own, glassis not, the rented ones.
Guss its enough, for the tea break!

 

[muse]

Once Pakistan gets out of American camp , it will have plenty of new friends hopefully sincere ... Of course I am talking , besides Beijing ... China's FM visit will put more pressure on the US already under trouble with supply lines closed , Taliban not negotiating , trying to find a face saving exit , already we have rejected US aid and said a straight " NO " to their demands at Chicago !

Where does the confidence that SCO wants a Pakistan that is not clear about what Pakistan is, as a member, come from? Does China really want a Pakistan, as SCO member and ally, that is committed to "limping" along while all others are determined to run towards development??

Sorry if this busts anybody's bubble, but Pakistan are not going anywhere - not until, the question of "WHY Pakistan" and "WHAT is Pakistan?" has been answered by Pakistanis, to the satisfaction of both Pakistanis and the world.

Now this may upset some, what can I tell you, if this reality is a problem, then change it - if you can't change it, what makes you think China, SCO or anybody else can change it??

Pakistan is headed for some serious bloodletting, better we get that over with sooner rather than later - what the Quaid e Azam won has been squandered, not any number of prostrations towards Riyadh will win back what has been lost to Riyadh, only the will to create a Pakistan that is true to the principles of the Quaid e Azam is worthy of survival, worth fighting for.

 

[lem34]

Where does the confidence that SCO wants a Pakistan that is not clear about what Pakistan is, as a member, come from? Does China really want a Pakistan, as SCO member and ally, that is committed to "limping" along while all others are determined to run towards development??

Sorry if this busts anybody's bubble, but Pakistan are not going anywhere - not until, the question of "WHY Pakistan" and "WHAT is Pakistan?" has been answered by Pakistanis, to the satisfaction of both Pakistanis and the world.

Now this may upset some, what can I tell you, if this reality is a problem, then change it - if you can't change it, what makes you think China, SCO or anybody else can change it??

Pakistan is headed for some serious bloodletting, better we get that over with sooner rather than later - what the Quaid e Azam won has been squandered, not any number of prostrations towards Riyadh will win back what has been lost to Riyadh, only the will to create a Pakistan that is true to the principles of the Quaid e Azam is worthy of survival, worth fighting for.

China well officially suppprts Pakistans application as does Russia. China opposes Indian entry. Pakistan is important from a geo strategic location but i do agree that we have leaders who are liabilities to Pakistan

But China has held back on such an endorsement due to its historical differences with New Delhi over border disputes and India’s desire to get more involved in activities in the South China Sea, which China regards as its sphere of influence.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/182904-india-cozies-up-russia-china.html#ixzz1w5kAbaRM


btw I think you are being optimistic it would be cruel to be kind to have some 2000 people eliminated but I cant see anyone who is ruthless enough in Pakistan to take such drastic action.

 

[muse]

China well officially suppprts Pakistans application as does Russia. China opposes Indian entry. Pakistan is important from a geo strategic location but i do agree that we have leaders who are liabilities to Pakistan

But China has held back on such an endorsement due to its historical differences with New Delhi over border disputes and India’s desire to get more involved in activities in the South China Sea, which China regards as its sphere of influence.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/182904-india-cozies-up-russia-china.html#ixzz1w5kAbaRM


btw I think you are being optimistic it would be cruel to be kind to have some 2000 people eliminated but I cant see anyone who is ruthless enough in Pakistan to take such drastic action.

Pakistan is required to undertake certain actions (clean up the Islamists and be rid of the ethnic and linguistic separatists, change the structure of its economy).

as for being optimistic - 2000 people? Not really, I don't think it will be in the thousands, I honestly think it will be in numbers so large that we will never know the true numbers - and it will be good - yes, good, if and only if what is to emerge is a Quaid e Azams Pakistan.

 

[lem34]

Pakistan is required to undertake certain actions (clean up the Islamists and be rid of the ethnic and linguistic separatists, change the structure of its economy).

as for being optimistic - 2000 people? Not really, I don't think it will be in the thousands, I honestly think it will be in numbers so large that we will never know the true numbers - and it will be good - yes, good, if and only if what is to emerge is a Quaid e Azams Pakistan.

We are talking at cross purposes. I was talking about the ones that pull the strings you may be talking about all with a certain mind set. If Madrassas could brain wash them one way surely we should be able to deprogram those that belong to a certain cult

 

[muse]

We are talking at cross purposes. I was talking about the ones that pull the strings you may be talking about all with a certain mind set. If Madrassas could brain wash them one way surely we should be able to deprogram those that belong to a certain cult

Deprogramming is for cults, and this is not a problem in Pakistan, the culture wars the Saudi have imposed on us, have consumed millions, and it's not just islamists, it's the ethnic and linguistic divides that animate politics, the state that seeks to not be a state - from head to toe, it's an infection that requires some strong medicine --

See, Aryan, this problem can be dealt with if the state has the will to deal with it - but we might as well be saying that the blind will be able to handle obstacles if only they could see

 

[lem34]

Deprogramming is for cults, and this is not a problem in Pakistan, the culture wars the Saudi have imposed on us, have consumed millions, and it's not just islamists, it's the ethnic and linguistic divides that animate politics, the state that seeks to not be a state - from head to toe, it's an infection that requires some strong medicine --

See, Aryan, this problem can be dealt with if the state has the will to deal with it - but we might as well be saying that the blind will be able to handle obstacles if only they could see

will discuss this with you sometime on another thread do not want to derail this. I have some ideas on a new start

 

[FaujHistorian]

SCO's basic purpose is to secure ex-CIS gas and oil resources to be used by China.

Pakistan's very existence denies Chinese monopoly on CIS oil+gas. TAPI is a huge point and Chinese and Russians do not like it at all.

And thus Pakistan will not be allowed, at least no happily by the Chinese.


Pakistanis have serious problem understanding global trends.

We think about the world as absolute friendship or animosity. The reality is that countries have to constantly adjust their view based on contemporary situation.

And thus we are stuck in the rut of old thinking and old methods.


China likes us in some aspects and views us with contempt in other aspects. SCO is where Chinese and Pakistani interests do not coincide.


peace.

 

[muse]

SCO is where Chinese and Pakistani interests do not coincide.

Please expand on this

 

[FaujHistorian]

SCO is where Chinese and Pakistani interests do not coincide.

Please expand on this

Simple. Russia and China do not want gas+oil piped out from central asian countries through Afghanistan+Pakistan to Gawader to the world.


Russians want to be sole supplier of gas to Europe. They have tried to control all the countries that serve as transit point for this gas. Georgia is one such example. Ukraine had its problems with Russia.

Chinese want Central Asian oil+gas shipped directly to China thus avoiding any link through Pakistan or Afghanistan.

This is the main reason SCO was formed. Just look at its make up. Will ya?


Pakistan and China are competing for the same resource, and China is winning.

Pakistanis are shooting their own feet by not allowing Afghanistan to stabilize and thus indirectly helping China to win.


Please look at the world atlas for a change and see which countries are part of SCO. Then try to understand the importance of SCO. It will never allow Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan to be SCO members.


peace.

Many Sheesh Kabob sheiks in the Gulf are supporting Talibobs and BLA to create mayhem in FATA, Balochistan and Afghanistan so the Turkman gas will not compete with Gulf gas.

Its a new great game, and Pakistanis are stupidly destroying our chances to benefit from this.

 

[muse]

Thank you for elaborating on the subject - though one may ask what difference does it make to Russia and China what route, or where gas is piped from to their countries

While what is also called the Asian energy grid includes players such as Russia and Iran, and players such as US seek to break into this formulation, it's difficult to sell the proposition that the Chinese have built Gwadar and has offered to build refineries and Gas processing facilities at the port. just to see it fail.

The problem with Pakistan in the SCO is that most countries (read Russia and China) are unable to figure out what the long term orientation of Pakistan is - we all know the one orientation that will be entirely unacceptable, not just to Russia and China, but the world, including to the majority of the people of Pakistan.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Thank you for elaborating on the subject - though one may ask what difference does it make to Russia and China what route, or where gas is piped from to their countries

........ the Chinese have built Gwadar and has offered to build refineries and Gas processing facilities at the port. just to see it fail.

.

You are welcome. And thank you for a super partner in this discussion.


Russia looses control over gas supplies from central asia if TAPI like projects are successful. This impact both the pricing of the gas and long term geo-strategic control of Russians.

Chinese have not supported any grid in Asia. Their effort (I admire them for this) has been to secure energy for "CHINA ONLY".

Chinese may get some projects in Pakistan. However none of them is supporting gas exports from CIS.

Oh and Chinese have long left Gawader with respect to large scale development. This is precisely why Gawader port has not become significant in Pakistani imports.


Blaming Pakistan for exclusion from SCO is simply self deprecating effort, that is so common among Pakistani intellectuals.

"China good, Pakistan bad, USA worst" mantra is only suitable for a 3rd grade history book analysis that is so common in Pakistani news media these days.

Have a blessed day.

peace.

 

[batmannow]

Relations between pakistan & china , aren't bassed only on gas supplies,our relations are deeper thn sea & higher thn , skies, plZ remember this, allways!
Banana gulf, states are nothing, with out CIA, which is using, Stupid & biasd minds of Arab rullers, like bahrin?
CIA wants baluchistan , as its base camp, to lunch a attack , on IRAN, too sAve Israel, once its done, US is bound, to throw away, these foolish BADDOOS, just check the , closing speach, of NATO sumit, its mainly about, creating defence misile shield, against RUSSIAN EU boders!its a direct threat to russia , its. Defence & its economy ,from EU?
India has been told to cut, its oil buying from, IRAN, do you PHDs , have ever, thought , whAt could be , the impact , on shinning Indian economy?
So, guys don't limit, pakistan china, in a dark room, of energy trade, or gas trade, accept it, world is changing, US & NATO countries are suffering, from their, worst economic times, its time to make & break, for many , not only pakistan or asia,& we all asians, needs a unification, anyway to get back our, resourses from the hands, of uncle, tom, & uncle sam!

 

[xyxmt]

every body needs, every body in this world my friend, as americans needs oil, thats why ksa is thier friend, iran cant because, it not ready , to accept israel?
usa needs nato, to rule the world, china sees usa , a deniable all weather threat, last indian visit by miss, clinton wasnt , seen a decent one, specially after, telling india to cut back its, buying of oil from IRAN, & other different matters, which cant be , disclosed, now, so its a changing world, where every one needs , everyone!
iran, still not, think its safe from , usa which is holding its grounds in , afghanistan!
russians, are angry over, the announcment of , missile shield by nato, on its european boders, so every one needs every one!
like americans, needs nato supplies, to be openned , for them by pakistan!
eeryone needs, everyone! in the end.

go easy with punctuation my friend