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Chinese firms join race to supply locos to Railways

@HafizzzDo not try to divert discussion in wrong direction. I can post Numbers of link like this for Chines and Pakistani products. Not only that but Chines try to sell their product as Indian one. Pakistanis try to recognize themselves as Indians. Are you ready to accept that if I post the link?

Let the thread remain clean.


What I was trying to say is when Indians claim that Chinese products are "inferior" but at the same time Indian products aren't any better like the article I posted claimed. So why are Indians keep picking on Chinese products as "inferior" when Indian products are not any better ?

Greater competition is good for the end consumer...in this case India :cheers:

Remember you will get what you paid for when India tries to lower the price by pitting foreign companies against each other !
 
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What I was trying to say is when Indians claim that Chinese products are "inferior" but at the same time Indian products aren't any better like the article I posted claimed. So why are Indians keep picking on Chinese products as "inferior" when Indian products are not any better ?

As I said numbers of times it is not only Indians are saying it is general perception all over the world? In Pakistan, does Chines products recognized as quality products?

I want you to answer honestly.
 
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As I said numbers of times it is not only Indians are saying it is general perception all over the world? In Pakistan, does Chines products recognized as quality products?

I want you to answer honestly.

The answer is : If You are willing to pay the price for top quality then you will get top quality products !
 
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Sad but true: Many Indian brands do not prefer being called Indian
Sad but true: Many Indian brands do not prefer being called Indian [maybe lessons for Indian startups?] : NextBigWhat.com

For a brand, an image of quality and credibility is an extremely important asset and a key factor in a company’s profitability and growth. In India, where locally produced brands are often seen as inferior, businesses consciously choose to build a “fake” foreign image for themselves. An abundance of foreign-sounding goods available at any high-end Indian mall makes it look as if India doesn’t manufacture any consumer goods of its own. But is it really the case or merely a well-planned illusion?

Here’s a fact: if given a choice, an Indian consumer will buy a foreign brand instead of a domestic one. At its most basic level, this preference is sparked by prejudices against an Indian brand name, even though there is no valid reason to justify this bias. That’s exactly what foreign branding is – the intention of certain brands to project themselves as foreign-based, so as to ensure they profit from this “foreignphilia.”

As the East and West created images of each other’s cultures, at some stage the East (or the emerging countries) deemed the West superior. It would be safe to assume that this phenomenon has something to do with the Indian tendency to gravitate towards everything foreign, and western goods are automatically equated to better products.

However, a lot of consumers in India are unaware that many popular, foreign-sounding brands are really Indian: Koutons, Monte Carlo, La Opala, Franco Leone, and Da Milano, to mention just a few among many, are of Indian origins. In some cases, the owners made a conscious choice of adopting a foreign name, while others “inherited” the name when they acquired a foreign brand. The fact that many of these brands– even the Italian-sounding ones like Monte Carlo and Da Milano – come from India is intentionally obliterated.

It is unlikely that this attitude will change anytime soon. “The trend will gather momentum,” says Piyush Kumar Sinha, Professor in retailing and marketing at the prestigious Indian Institute of Management in Ahmedabad. He predicts that Indian brands will try to look and sound foreign to play into the local population’s aspirations for foreign-label merchandise.

To be fair, the fascination with foreign-sounding products is not exclusive to India.

Look at Häagen Dazs, the popular ice cream brand whose name conjures up Scandinavian origins. However, this product was first manufactured in the Bronx, N.Y, and its name doesn’t mean anything in any of the Scandinavian (or other) languages, so the concept of foreign branding is alive and well in many parts of the world, where the preference for new and different products is rampant. That’s why many local brands are “baptized” with Italian, German, or French names, creating an illusion of exotic origins.

And the name is just the beginning of the carefully crafted illusions (some would even call it deceptions). These companies hire foreign models to showcase their collections, which is why there are so many foreign models in India. After all, it is easier to perpetuate a pre-conceived notion of a foreign brand if foreign models are showcasing it. Brands like Duke, for instance, have been hiring foreign models for their collection because these models “help create an international feel for the brand,” an image that an Indian model would not be able to project.

Fortunately for the companies, hiring an overseas model is not difficult. Many of them come to India as tourists and charge between 20,000 and 40,000 rupees ($36o – $720) for a day’s shoot, while a famous Indian personality would charge a lot more.

Ad agencies that provide brands with foreign models concede that a number of them are tourists and don’t have work permits. They get away with these assignments because there are no stringent checks within the modeling industry. This mostly happens in the case of mid-tier, small-budget brands. Some companies have actual statistics suggesting that hiring overseas models proved fruitful and has improved their sales tremendously. Cotton County, for example, faced declining sales, which were revived once they brought in foreign models. It cannot be merely coincidental that profitable Grasim brands like Van Heusen, Louis Phillipe, and Allen Solly have never hired Indian models.

Some firms have gone as far as to fall for their own act. A brand by the name of Munich Polo, that sashays itself as German, chose to design its site in the same fashion – so much so that its website talks about German culture and the German city of Munich, completely erasing all signs of its Indian origins. Similarly, brands like Woodland have succeeded in projecting themselves as a foreign brand. Launched by Aero industries, Woodland now has all but lost its original roots. It is easy to see that the impetus behind a brand image construction like that of Woodland’s owes a lot to other foreign brands like Timberland, which are massively successful. From its merchandise to its use of foreign models, it is hard to see Woodland for what it really is – an Indian company. The Woodland site terms itself as Woodland International, even though it ships products only within India. Therefore, the conscious effort to create a foreign image is embedded in even the smallest details.

This trend is not limited only to adult brands, but also to many children’s brands like Lilliput, and Gini and Jony. In reality, Gini and Jony is a product of Pakistan-based Lakhani Brothers, while Lilliput was founded by an Indian businessman, Sanjeev Narula. These brands also use foreign kids as models and project their merchandise as if it were manufactured in America or England. The new emergent middle class falls for the illusion and participates in this conscious manipulation of the Indian psyche.

The next logical question is why Indian brands pretend they are foreign when they are clearly not? It is not as if local brands like Fabindia are not equally popular. It cannot be denied that these pseudo-foreign companies are exploiting the Indian mentality, which, as stated above, perceives foreign goods as superior. Therefore, the projection of a certain brand as originating from abroad justifies higher prices.

Though this technique seems to be very effective, there is no reason for it to continue. It must be very frustrating for Indian companies to know that so many consumers do not give native products a fair chance. But at the same time, the brand image does very little if the actual products do not provide the high quality expected of imported goods. If a local company chooses to market its merchandise under a foreign alias, it has to ensure that its products look, feel, and last as long as the imported ones, otherwise it’ll be taking advantage of gullible consumers.

So the next time you step into a mall, make note of the brands you go for. You might be surprised to note that many of the ones you choose are actually Indian brands and that is proof enough of the need to recognize the potential in the indigenous market, and not to fall for the same prejudices again and again. Who knows? Maybe your next visit to a mall would be to a truly Indian one!

What about your startup? Are you ‘faking’ it? Is it really mandatory in India to get accepted and charge the ‘right’ pricing?

Historically India was never a brand conscious country. The ubiquitousness of Brands in Indian markets are a recent phenomena that started since economy was liberalized in 1991 and when Indian middle class started becoming upward mobile. To cater to the prime consumer - in this case an upward mobile Indian middle class - companies started churning out western sounding Brands.

I see nothing wrong in this strategy. First companies are successful using this strategy and second more importantly they are learning the art of Brand Management, that would become potent weapon in future when they have to compete in local markets with western rivals or to compete in western markets as foreign players
 
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Historically India was never a brand conscious country. The ubiquitousness of Brands in Indian markets are a recent phenomena that started since economy was liberalized in 1991 and when Indian middle class started becoming upward mobile. To cater to the prime consumer - in this case an upward mobile Indian middle class - companies started churning out western sounding Brands.

I see nothing wrong in this strategy. First companies are successful using this strategy and second more importantly they are learning the art of Brand Management, that would become potent weapon in future when they have to compete in local markets with western rivals or to compete in western markets as foreign players

In other words you see nothing wrong with Indian companies started churning out western sounding Brands while Indian making fun of Chinese companies for doing the same ????
 
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In other words you see nothing wrong with Indian companies started churning out western sounding Brands while Indian making fun of Chinese companies for doing the same ????

There is huge difference in having a western sounding brand such as Monte carlo that is trade marked internationally, and Chinese way of cheating consumers with fake products that sound like original western brands. There was a large thread created by @Roybot on Chinese fake products :lol:

fakebrand-nike.jpg
 
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Nothing wrong in getting chinese company...... It might help us in negotiating with other suppliers.....

Frankly speaking, Indians can't even make what China produces and yet they make fun of the Chinese

My dear friend first design and make an operational 70 cc 2 stroke engine in your country then come and preach us.... Btw Cheer leading is a good exercise.....
 
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There is huge difference in having a western sounding brand such as Monte carlo that is trade marked internationally, and Chinese way of cheating consumers with fake products that sound like original western brands. There was a large thread created by @Roybot on Chinese fake products :lol:

fakebrand-nike.jpg

That's what India is doing too --- Faking Western Products but Indians see it as OK
 
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There is huge difference in having a western sounding brand such as Monte carlo that is trade marked internationally, and Chinese way of cheating consumers with fake products that sound like original western brands. There was a large thread created by @Roybot on Chinese fake products :lol:

fakebrand-nike.jpg

China is the world's largest factory, there are some businesses who are out to make some quick bucks by making fake goods. But that doesn't mean we don't make quality Chinese product. Lining badminton racket is one of the best. Huawei product rivals Cisco. Can Indian company produce anything like it? No, India doesn't even have a good manufacturing base.
The day when India has that manufacturing capability, rest assured it be the world's largest producer of fake goods. Just look at Indian film industry, the entire Bollywood is a plagiarism of Hollywood. How many Indian audience have Bollywood cheated? Did they ever give credit to the original movies? Any royalties paid? NONE.
 
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Two Chinese firms — CSR Corporation and CNR Corporation — have created a flutter by bidding for a share of the Indian Railways’ locomotive market.
Yiiikes!!! Not Chinese locos pllleasse, seeing that they're gathering dust in Pakistan and ready to be sold as scrap! They're not worth a lollipop!

I think we've gone nuts even accepting their bids!!
 
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Like I said, You get what you paid for.

You want good quality products then you have to pay the price for good quality products.
If you are only willing to spend PENNIES but want top quality products then you will hit the wall.

You said nothing, you are just parroting the Chinese excuse:

1. You pay less, you get poor quality; understood, but why such products have to be toxic also? I can understand cheap products won't last long, but that doesn't justify the use of toxic & harmful material.

2. You pay well, you get better quality; maybe, but if I pay more I will get better brands at that price, then why should I buy Chinese? How many reputed Chinese brands you can list?

3. Even if I pay more, there is no guarantee that I will get good product. What about toxic toys sold in USA, what about melamine in baby food of reputed brands like Nestle and Mead Johnson which were made in China? Are they cheap products too?

really, still on the quality thing.

We can build space stations, and man space flight, have the largest train network. Other than the one incident that happened, btw all nations have accidents, spain more recently, we are below the Indian standard?

I know insulting Chinese products is like a hobby, but at least get some facts straight.

No, not hobby, reality.

Curran says KiwiRail report vindicates concerns | Otago Daily Times Online News : Otago, South Island, New Zealand & International News
Pakistan Railways crisis
6 China Trains Fail Tazara Rail Test
KiwiRail's Chinese locomotives 'plagued with faults' - National News | TVNZ
Radio New Zealand : News : National : Faults revealed in KiwiRail locomotives


Ohh!! Pakistanis are always apologetic about China, they don't really have too many options other than being apologetic. But, other Pakistani railway engines did survive the poor service & maintenance standards in Pakistan, only Chinese engines failed, what does that prove?
 
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Ohh!! Pakistanis are always apologetic about China, they don't really have too many options other than being apologetic. But, other Pakistani railway engines did survive the poor service & maintenance standards in Pakistan, only Chinese engines failed, what does that prove?

The thread contained video and interview with the mechanics, not just what was written by PDF member. It was clearly reported in the video that the trains were not properly serviced due to corruption. Hence, the problem. But same CHinese trains in China have no problem.

On Africa, do you know many railroads we've built and how many trains we have supplied to them? And how many countries in Africa? Do you?

You're either a very dimwitted indian or you are just a troll. I think it's a bit of both.

I'm not sure which chinese company NZ dealt with. so no comment.
 
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You said nothing, you are just parroting the Chinese excuse:

1. You pay less, you get poor quality; understood, but why such products have to be toxic also? I can understand cheap products won't last long, but that doesn't justify the use of toxic & harmful material.

You mean like this ? :


Researchers find high levels of toxic metals in herbal medicine products sold online

Researchers at Boston University School of Medicine (BUSM) have found that one fifth of both U.S.-manufactured and Indian-manufactured Ayurvedic medicines purchased via the Internet contain lead, mercury or arsenic. These findings appear in the August 27th issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA).

Using an Internet search, the researchers identified 25 Web sites featuring 673 Ayurvedic medicines. They randomly selected and purchased 193 products made by 37 different manufacturers for analyses. Overall, 20.7 percent of Ayurvedic medicines contained detectable lead, mercury and/or arsenic. U.S. and Indian manufactured products were equally likely to contain toxic metals. Rasa shastra compared with non-rasa shastra medicines were more than twice as likely to contain metals and had higher concentrations of lead and mercury. Among products containing metals, 95 percent were sold by U.S. Web sites and 75 percent claimed Good Manufacturing Practices or testing for heavy metals. All metal-containing products exceeded one or more standards for acceptable daily intake of toxic metals.

Indian paint majors have toxic double standards: NGO
Indian paint majors have toxic double standards: NGO - The Hindu

Indian paint majors are showing their true colours in neighbouring markets, by including dangerously high levels of lead in their products, according to a study conducted by some non-governmental organisations in India, Nepal and Bangladesh.

Lab study finds paints in India have unacceptable levels of toxic lead
Lab study finds paints in India have unacceptable levels of toxic lead | Centre for Science and Environment

The paints used in Indian homes come with a deadly health cost. Most of the popular brands of paints contain high quantities of lead, a toxin especially dangerous for children -- says a latest study done by Centre for Science and Environment (CSE).

Determination of Toxic Metals in Indian
Smokeless Tobacco Products

http://core.kmi.open.ac.uk/download/pdf/5818057%2Bindian+products+contain+toxic&hl=en&ct=clnk]Determination of Toxic Metals in Indian Smokeless Tobacco Products[/url]

This study targets the lesser-known ingredients of smokeless tobacco products, i.e., the
toxic metals, in Indian brands. The metals selected in the study included lead (Pb),
cadmium (Cd), arsenic (As), copper (Cu), mercury (Hg), and selenium (Se). The
differential pulse anodic stripping voltammetry (DPASV) technique was used for
estimating the metals Pb, Cd, and Cu; square wave voltammetry for As; and the cold
vapor atomic absorption technique for Hg. The resulting levels of the metals were
compared to the daily consumption of the smokeless tobacco products. It was observed
that almost 30% of gutkha brand samples exceeded the permissible levels of metals Pb
and Cu, when compared to the provisional tolerable intake limits determined by the
FAO/WHO. The reliability of data was assured by analyzing standard reference materials
 
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The thread contained video and interview with the mechanics, not just what was written by PDF member. It was clearly reported in the video that the trains were not properly serviced due to corruption. Hence, the problem. But same CHinese trains in China have no problem.

On Africa, do you know many railroads we've built and how many trains we have supplied to them? And how many countries in Africa? Do you?

You're either a very dimwitted indian or you are just a troll. I think it's a bit of both.

I'm not sure which chinese company NZ dealt with. so no comment.

First, if you find that you have nothing credible to debate, then just don't reply, don't go into personal attack believing that the person on the other side is incapable of giving you a fitting reply. And check your posts in Indian section before calling others troll.

On topic, Pakistan isn't running a railway for last couple of years only, if other locos survived the Pakistani standard of low-quality maintenance work for last 66 years, then why Chinese locos couldn't survive it? Endurance is also a test of quality. Pakistan cancelled future orders from that company, right?
 
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