Chinese firm to deliver 28nm chip manufacturing machine in 2021-2022: reports

[riscol]

Even Switzerland got fucked too when we found out the crypto company was owned by the CIA.

Only countries who where not using devices from Crypto AG were China and Russia.

 

[Han Patriot]

never forget how Germany got fucked with Siemens.

How?

 

[vi-va]

Even Switzerland got fucked too when we found out the crypto company was owned by the CIA.

Only countries who where not using devices from Crypto AG were China and Russia.

Basically every single countries fucked by CIA because of using Crypto AG. Except China and Rusia.

India heavily rely on Google, Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, Instgram and so on. India is finished by CIA, no chance to be a great power at all, regional power, maybe.

And CIA is crying foul for HUAWEI. WTF.

Did people have short memory like fish?
PRISM
PRISM
PRISM
PRISM
PRISM
PRISM

 

[8888888888888]

never forget how Germany got fucked with Siemens.

Wow even against its allies, so it treats them more like vassals instead.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

How?

search the appropriate terms... I cannot say here directly.

 

[Amember]

How?

Watch this guy's talking about it (toshiba & siemens)
the Siemens part starting at 11:12

 

[surge]

The core component of this 28nm machine is still produced by another country, I think china a decade behind their western competitors. China has lost the 5G race after even UK is backing down which may mean china lost billions of research investment but they are preparing for the next one.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

The core component of this 28nm machine is still produced by another country, I think china a decade behind their western competitors. China has lost the 5G race after even UK is backing down which may mean china lost billions of research investment but they are preparing for the next one.

how has China lost the 5G race?

how is that money lost if it has already resulted in patents and sales?

do you even know what the core component is?

 

[surge]

how has China lost the 5G race?

how is that money lost if it has already resulted in patents and sales?

do you even know what the core component is?

Lost doesn't means it goes into a gutter but for now the business opportunity is gone I think. China wont be able to produce 5G components if they cannot manufacture 14nm or 7nm etc components. But the research they have done will be used in next Chinese technology can be 6G.
If western companies are using Chinese patents then good however US want to sabotage the whole Chinese 5G

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Lost doesn't means it goes into a gutter but for now the business opportunity is gone I think. China wont be able to produce 5G components if they cannot manufacture 14nm or 7nm etc components. But the research they have done will be used in next Chinese technology can be 6G.
If western companies are using Chinese patents then good however US want to sabotage the whole Chinese 5G

who told you 14 nm cannot be manufactured?

 

[CAPRICORN-88]

Lost doesn't means it goes into a gutter but for now the business opportunity is gone I think. China wont be able to produce 5G components if they cannot manufacture 14nm or 7nm etc components. But the research they have done will be used in next Chinese technology can be 6G.
If western companies are using Chinese patents then good however US want to sabotage the whole Chinese 5G

IMO there is no way US can sabotage 5G at this point of time? If is way too late.

Huawei has confidently projected that they will complete 800,000 5G base stations in China by the end of 2020 at 10,000 per week.

I will viewed all these as an act of desperation by US.

Although China can filed its complaint with WTO but it won't do them any good as USA will just ignore it and will not complied with WTO ruling like they did in the case of aluminum and steel.

China own indigenous indigenous lithography machine by SMEE is in fact a great news and major achievement. A milestone in any sense, one that will propelled China towards its goal of self sufficiency.

This is already sending shock wave and ripples to USA even though it is only 28nm.

SMIC will be running it's trial production of its 7nm N+1 node by the 4Q 2020.

SMEE will be a major if not the only competitor to ASML in the future. Companies like SMEE are not lacking in technological knowhow but demands in the past.

IMO China will soon pumped in billions into these strategic industries like they did for SMIC. USA has shot itself in the foot. Time will tell and it won't take long to find out.

Semiconductor is USA last technological frontier against China. But USA has no idea on how to fight it apart from prevent or sabotaging it's opponents.
The US basketball players are known to poke their opponents in the eyes whenever they are losing.

 

[JustAnotherPerson]

The core component of this 28nm machine is still produced by another country, I think china a decade behind their western competitors. China has lost the 5G race after even UK is backing down which may mean china lost billions of research investment but they are preparing for the next one.

They say a core component MAY be produce by a foreign country and i think they are referring to the light source, who i think MAY be produced by Gigaphoton but not necessary because there is a company in China who produce Arf light sources for lithography systems.
https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=CN243495255&docAn=201910072005.8
People seems to forget that you can advance in jumps, because this is already invented. That "decade gap" it could be bridged in a few years, that why you don't "rest in your laurels" and mistreat your costumers by thinking that your technological advantage is the only reason why they should buy your products. Look at the position of Intel now that AMD can create competent products, Intel thought that its technological advantage was enough, they raised price and stopped innovating, AMD didn't.

 

[Han Patriot]

The core component of this 28nm machine is still produced by another country, I think china a decade behind their western competitors. China has lost the 5G race after even UK is backing down which may mean china lost billions of research investment but they are preparing for the next one.

Yup we will collapse soon. I wonder what those 500k Huawei basestations are for?

 

[JustAnotherPerson]

Watch this guy's talking about it (toshiba & siemens)
the Siemens part starting at 11:12

Wow great documentary of that guy.
Is incredible that Huawei is one China most global companies, they really or naively believed in globalization and global supply chains, they have the chance of getting rid of most US semiconductors years ago but they didn't, they partnered with Qualcomm, Xilinx, Synopsis and many other Americans companies. Their products were as American as much as they were Chinese. Samsung they design and fabricate their own chips, Nokia and Ericsson they probably prefer to buy European. So they were not destroying American companies they will helping America to be the backbone of the global 5G network including inside China. Sad.
Like i say, convincing a Neocon that its policies are counterproductive is like convincing the coronavirus not to infect people, is almost impossible.

 

[Paul2]

@Paul2 important step for fabs for trailing edge logic, ASIC, power, etc, possibly memory. while not at the cutting edge yet, this is good enough for China to maintain ourselves and act as a springboard.

can you provide deeper insight and evaluate significance?

Indeed, just having any 100% domestic components stepper is mind boggling, something no other country in the world ever did, if it's really true...

Three points:

1. The lion share of Chinese ICs are 90nm+, and we have to go to Taiwanese to make those
   
   There is already a domestic capability for economic 180nm tapeouts that a regular business can go for, but a lot of businesses are still choosing TSMC, or other foreign fabs just for quality of client service, and SPEEED
   
   CanSemi for example is just starting, they have some bad feedback, but they don't seem to mind as they have a giant market of clients whose only immediate need is to put "Made in China" label on their ICs to make money.
   
   When they will be beating Taiwanese on both service, and cost. Then we can talk.
   
   For now, having Chinese foundries that can offer mainstream 300mm service is a way more immediate need that having own equipment.
   
   If relations with Taiwan will seriously sour tomorrow, we will not be able to even make own discreet ICs, simple things like opamps, pmics, simple RF parts, and etc in sufficient volume.
   
   
2. The entirety of Chinese domestic market for <65nm parts is not that big if you count the number of companies. You have 20 behemoth sized clients who can afford 65nm, and everybody else goes for 90nm+
   
   Just not so many of our companies manufacture high speed logic, nor have huge ICs. 300mm wafers make 90nm manufacturing quite economical.
   
   Even at 90nm, a one megagate design will be taking more area for bonding pads than for the IC itself. This is why advanced packaging is such a money saver.
   
   If you can do fan out in plastic, you put 4-6 times more small sized ICs on a wafer even with an ancient 90nm process.
   
   Mainstream ICs simply don't gain anything from <65nm nodes. IC manufacturing is not all about feature size. Things like materials, cell design rules, backend features, and tons of other things industry outsiders have never heard of in their life are equally, or more important than feature size for the mainstream customer.
   
   
3. As I said before many times, the lion share of mid-tier digital logic below 1ghz will stay at 40nm and 65nm for a very long time. Why? Because 65nm, and 40nm nodes are the last nodes where you can reliably use dry tools, and single patterning. For anything else, yield management, and cycle times begin to conflict with each other.
   
   Therefore, I propose to focus on essentials first before chasing the bleeding edge, and to avoid the serious mistake the state backed semi companies have done doing the later.
   
   Develop the 65nm planar process for dry tool, single exposure use, with focus on general purpose mixed signal designs. Provide rapid cycle times, and equipment utilisation.
   
   Develop 40nm 3D process for immersion tool, single exposure use, with focus on mainstream digital ICs. Provide low power consumption, and developer friendliness.
   
   While developing the litho capability, seek blue ocean opportunities more relevant in Chinese market: high volume maskless tech for things like smart interposers; Memory in the backend; Novel material devices; Advanced packaging; Power-on-Chip tech; etc.

P.S. I completely forgot one very important thing: photomask manufacturing. This is another are where we have near no domestic expertise. All advanced photomasks in China are coming from TW, and Japan. For example, you can't get phase shift photomasks here, nor advanced inspection, or repair.