Chinese city Shenzhen surpassed China Hong Kong,became NO.1 among Guangdong, Hong Kong and Macao

[TaiShang]

rich hk tycoons are against public housing for obvious reasons.

I do not complain at this point.

The starker Mainland and HK development levels get, the better. This annuls the few colonial residue dogs' constant barking at China in few friendly foreign capitals.

 

[Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA]

Something wrong with the article. They said HK is 266 billion and Shenzhen is 2.2 million. I am confused.

Based on this calculation, Hong Kong's GDP last year was equivalent to RMB 2240.98 billion. The GDP of Shenzhen in 2018 was 2421.918 billion yuan, which was 22.1 billion yuan higher than Hong Kong.




HK dollars and RMB not the same thing!

 

[rott]

Based on this calculation, Hong Kong's GDP last year was equivalent to RMB 224.098 billion. The GDP of Shenzhen in 2018 was 2421.918 billion yuan, which was 22.1 billion yuan higher than Hong Kong.




HK dollars and RMB not the same thing!

Okay I got it. It's just the way they've written the article I was confused.

 

[Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA]

Okay I got it. It's just the way they've written the article I was confused.

Web site translation dude,get the essence ,the original article is written in Chinese!

 

[Mista]

Just talked with a hk friend yesterday when she "comes up" to Dongguan, who also plans to buy an apartment, that current house price in HK is about 180,000-200,000 HKD/m2, goddamn high. But even in Shenzhen, specially in centre areas such as Nanshan, Futian, the house price also exceeds 120,000 HKD/m2 (100,000 RMB/m2).

Both are insane lol. You guys have so much more land than Singapore.

Hong Kong’s high housing prices are caused by the Hong Kong government

The government's revenue have to come from somewhere. HK probably has the lowest tax rates among all major cities in the world.

But HK is taking it too far. Neither do they need to pay taxes to Beijing unlike Shenzhen, nor spend tens of billions on military spending annually like Singapore.
They have large surpluses and financial reserves, and a significant amount of these money come from property-related revenue.

The government could sell land at a discount and still have a surplus to fund government operations.

 

[Offshore]

Guangzhou will replace Hong Kong and become the 4th richest Chinese city in 2019.

more hongkonger but hurts

 

[beijingwalker]

Hong Kong and Shenzhen are both Chinese cities, we want the best of both of them.

 

[Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA]

Both are insane lol. You guys have so much more land than Singapore.



The government's revenue have to come from somewhere. HK probably has the lowest tax rates among all major cities in the world.

But HK is taking it too far. Neither do they need to pay taxes to Beijing unlike Shenzhen, nor spend tens of billions on military spending annually like Singapore.
They have large surpluses and financial reserves, and a significant amount of these money come from property-related revenue.

The government could sell land at a discount and still have a surplus to fund government operations.

The Hong Kong government adopts an extreme greenland protection policy. So many land that can be used is prohibited from being used. In fact, the Hong Kong government has actually no land to build appartments under extreme greenland protection policy, and with a population of 7.45 million, 2 million more than Singapore,the extremely high housing prices in Hong Kong are nothing but very normal!
Hong Kong---extreme greenland protection policy,a little bit too much!!

So much lands not used to low the housing prices!

The development of several green parks can solve the housing problem of Hong Kong's 1 million to 2 million people and actually will not have much impact on the Hong Kong environment.

In fact, 7.45 million Hong Kong people use less land than the 5.61 million Singaporeans.
In fact, Singapore is only about two-thirds of the size of Hong Kong.

 

[rott]

Hong Kong and Shenzhen are both Chinese cities, we want the best of both of them.

Yes, but some young arrogant kids in HK needs to be butt whacked.

 

[Mista]

The Hong Kong government adopts an extreme greenland protection policy. So many land that can be used is prohibited from being used. In fact, the Hong Kong government has actually no land to build appartments under extreme greenland protection policy, and with a population of 7.45 million, 2 million more than Singapore,the extremely high housing prices in Hong Kong are nothing but very normal!
Hong Kong---extreme greenland protection policy,a little bit too much!!

So much lands not used to low the housing prices!

The development of several green parks can solve the housing problem of Hong Kong's 1 million to 2 million people and actually will not have much impact on the Hong Kong environment.

In fact, 7.45 million Hong Kong people use less land than the 5.61 million Singaporeans.
In fact, Singapore is only about two-thirds of the size of Hong Kong.

The government just wants to earn money from land sales revenue. The lack of land is just an excuse to push up prices, HK have plenty of unproductive land lying there unused.

Singapore is only 60% the size of HK and we have our national parks as well. We have 17 golf courses in Singapore (compared to 6 in HK) and 8 airports in Singapore (compared to 2 in HK). We have numerous military bases to house and train our army, navy and air force. Just look at how many bases we have:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Singapore_Armed_Forces_bases

And because of the airbases spreading across our island, we have a blanket height limit of 290m and our average high-rises are only around 12 storeys tall.

Despite all these, we still insist on allocating spaces to plant trees and flowers on every street to green up our island.

Singapore's monthly median household income (USD6,887) is almost twice of HK's (USD3,580).

So why is housing so much more expensive in HK? Why can Singapore implement minimum average housing size while in HK they are building apartments the size of a parking lot?

It all boils down to vested interests of both the government and homeowners in HK.
Homeowners don't want their property value to drop. The government is also dependent on property-related revenue to fund government operations.

In Singapore Lee Kuan Yew, before he stepped down, amended the constitution which disallow the spending of land sales revenue so that future governments can't fund social welfare just by selling more land/raising land price. In this way vested interests by the government are reduced.

Under current laws, proceeds from land sales must be locked away as reserves, a unique feature of Singapore's Budget. But past reserves can be used to fund land-related projects such as land reclamation and land acquisition as this is seen as converting the reserves from financial assets to state land.

Dr Chua points out that Singapore's conservative system of budgeting means a Budget deficit here is not really considered one under the International Monetary Fund rules. If proceeds from land sales were included in the operating revenue, Singapore is deemed to run surpluses.

But those against the move to unlock the funds point to Hong Kong as a counter example. With land sales going directly towards the government's operating revenue, there is pressure for land to be priced higher - a hidden tax - to meet spending needs, and this has driven property prices in the special administrative region sky high.

Do you still believe the lack of land is the reason for high property prices? Canada and Australia have land sizes of a continent with just 20-30m people, so why is their property prices in the city so high?

 

[Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA]

The government just wants to earn money from land sales revenue. The lack of land is just an excuse to push up prices, HK have plenty of unproductive land lying there unused.

Singapore is only 60% the size of HK and we have our national parks as well. We have 17 golf courses in Singapore (compared to 6 in HK) and 8 airports in Singapore (compared to 2 in HK). We have numerous military bases to house and train our army, navy and air force. Just look at how many bases we have:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Singapore_Armed_Forces_bases

And because of the airbases spreading across our island, we have a blanket height limit of 290m and our average high-rises are only around 12 storeys tall.

Despite all these, we still insist on allocating spaces to plant trees and flowers on every street to green up our island.

Singapore's monthly median household income (USD6,887) is almost twice of HK's (USD3,580).

So why is housing so much more expensive in HK? Why can Singapore implement minimum average housing size while in HK they are building apartments the size of a parking lot?

It all boils down to vested interests of both the government and homeowners in HK.
Homeowners don't want their property value to drop. The government is also dependent on property-related revenue to fund government operations.

In Singapore Lee Kuan Yew, before he stepped down, amended the constitution which disallow the spending of land sales revenue so that future governments can't fund social welfare just by selling more land/raising land price. In this way vested interests by the government are reduced.



Do you still believe the lack of land is the reason for high property prices? Canada and Australia have land sizes of a continent with just 20-30m people, so why is their property prices in the city so high?

HK gov is a gov of real estate,which made LI Jiacheng kind of people heros.
And a lot of Chinese cities copied that, such as beijing and shanghau(but beijing 22 millions and shanghai 24 milions people,the orice should be high)fortunately we have huawei to show us the have but right way!
And public housing at 85 or even 90% is the right way for HK gov to adopt.
High techs not cement and concrets are the future.

The government just wants to earn money from land sales revenue. The lack of land is just an excuse to push up prices, HK have plenty of unproductive land lying there unused.

Singapore is only 60% the size of HK and we have our national parks as well. We have 17 golf courses in Singapore (compared to 6 in HK) and 8 airports in Singapore (compared to 2 in HK). We have numerous military bases to house and train our army, navy and air force. Just look at how many bases we have:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Singapore_Armed_Forces_bases

And because of the airbases spreading across our island, we have a blanket height limit of 290m and our average high-rises are only around 12 storeys tall.

Despite all these, we still insist on allocating spaces to plant trees and flowers on every street to green up our island.

Singapore's monthly median household income (USD6,887) is almost twice of HK's (USD3,580).

So why is housing so much more expensive in HK? Why can Singapore implement minimum average housing size while in HK they are building apartments the size of a parking lot?

It all boils down to vested interests of both the government and homeowners in HK.
Homeowners don't want their property value to drop. The government is also dependent on property-related revenue to fund government operations.

In Singapore Lee Kuan Yew, before he stepped down, amended the constitution which disallow the spending of land sales revenue so that future governments can't fund social welfare just by selling more land/raising land price. In this way vested interests by the government are reduced.



Do you still believe the lack of land is the reason for high property prices? Canada and Australia have land sizes of a continent with just 20-30m people, so why is their property prices in the city so high?

Not lack land but restrict to use rhe lands that can be used.
HK gov is a strange gov for me,follow up every steps set up and no one care to advance or bring benifits to hk people.
HK Officials are nothing but a job,they have no feeling of national responsabilities or political honors at all.

 

[Mista]

And a lot of Chinese cities copied that, such as beijing and shanghau(but beijing 22 millions and shanghai 24 milions people,the orice should be high)

And why should it be high? 你要跳出思维模式啊。

Beijing has more than 20x of Singapore's land. It has more land than Tokyo metro area, which have 37m people and a GDP larger than India.

Does Beijing has lesser land than Tokyo? Nope.
Does Beijing has more people than Tokyo? Nope.
Does Beijing have a higher GDP than Tokyo? Nope.
Does Beijingers have higher wages than Tokyoites? Nope.

So on what basis Beijing have as to why property prices are so high?

It's all about the revenue. All these infrastructure projects in China don't come cheap. 羊毛出在羊身上, the money have to come from somewhere if not taxes.

HK Officials are nothing but a job,they have no feeling of national responsabilities or political honors at all.

They are bureaucrats, not leaders.

 

[Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA]

And why should it be high? 你要跳出思维模式啊。

Beijing has more than 20x of Singapore's land. It has more land than Tokyo metro area, which have 37m people and a GDP larger than India.

Does Beijing has lesser land than Tokyo? Nope.
Does Beijing has more people than Tokyo? Nope.
Does Beijing have a higher GDP than Tokyo? Nope.
Does Beijingers have higher wages than Tokyoites? Nope.

So on what basis Beijing have as to why property prices are so high?

It's all about the revenue. All these infrastructure projects in China don't come cheap. 羊毛出在羊身上, the money have to come from somewhere if not taxes.



They are bureaucrats, not leaders.

And what kind of housing price beijing should have with 22 millions people？
1000USD per m2？
2000USD per m2？
5000USD per m2？
10000USD per m2？
(People all over the country want to enter Beijing. Because of the Beijing hukou, it is 20 times easier for your children to go to Peking University and Tsinghua University than other Chinese.)


I was in France,Paris is a city with a 9500USD per m2 housing price back in 2012.
My hometown Anhui Dangshan county has a housing price of 700 USD per m2 on average today（From 500 USD to 1000 USD per m2 maxi.).
60% of the people in my home village have already bought an appartment in Daishan County urban area. Are these people fools while they still have their own houses(village houses) in the countryside (two-story buildings, and even three-story buildings)?

In China, buying an appartmen is largely a means of investment. Just as Americans buy stocks, China's housing prices have risen a large part because of the large number of investors entering the market.

In Wuxi, my city, the average price of homes in 2013 was 9,000 yuan ($1,345 per m2). In 2018 today, the price of Wuxi was 18,000 yuan ($ 2690 per m2) on average.
There are still many people who are still buying Wuxi houses (many people come from Beijing,Shanghai and Suzhou and other cities which have even more higher housing prices).

High housing prices are not good, but in China, there are not many investment opportunities for Chinese people. The Chinese stock market has a low reputation and basically has no chance to make money.

 

[Mista]

And what kind of housing price beijing should have with 22 millions people？
1000USD per m2？
2000USD per m2？
5000USD per m2？
10000USD per m2？

So what price do you think Tokyo should have with 37m people, lesser land than Beijing and a GDP of India?

This is the price of a detached house in Tokyo 23 wards, the center core of Tokyo:

Around $6000 per sqm, 使用面积.

The Chinese stock market has a low reputation and basically has no chance to make money.

Another vested interest of the government there, to protect SOEs.

Other countries' stock market is dominated by institutional investors like investment banks, which invest professionally and long-term.

China's stock market is dominated by retail investors (average man on the street), who invest short-term and based on rumors/speculation looking for a quick buck. So it's like a casino.

Unlike many of the world's stock markets, most trades on the Chinese stock market are made by individual retail investors, rather than institutional investors. About 85 percent of trades are retail, according to Reuters.

Some 67.6% of households that opened new accounts in the past quarter haven’t graduated from high school, according Orlik’s chart, which comes from a large-scale quarterly national survey of household assets and income conducted by Gan Li of the Southwestern University of Finance and Economics. Only 12% have a college education. Among existing investors surveyed, only 25.5% lack a high school diploma; 40.3% have finished college.

So why China doesn't set up investment institutions to invest professionally? Why let the stock market be a casino?

That's because SOEs have lower return on equity and if left to the free market, they would be defeated by private Chinese companies. Capital will flow from SOEs to private companies.

So who gains and who loses from the stock market?

Same for the property market, who gains and who loses?

 

[bbccdd1470]

The government just wants to earn money from land sales revenue. The lack of land is just an excuse to push up prices, HK have plenty of unproductive land lying there unused.

Singapore is only 60% the size of HK and we have our national parks as well. We have 17 golf courses in Singapore (compared to 6 in HK) and 8 airports in Singapore (compared to 2 in HK). We have numerous military bases to house and train our army, navy and air force. Just look at how many bases we have:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Singapore_Armed_Forces_bases

And because of the airbases spreading across our island, we have a blanket height limit of 290m and our average high-rises are only around 12 storeys tall.

Despite all these, we still insist on allocating spaces to plant trees and flowers on every street to green up our island.

Singapore's monthly median household income (USD6,887) is almost twice of HK's (USD3,580).

So why is housing so much more expensive in HK? Why can Singapore implement minimum average housing size while in HK they are building apartments the size of a parking lot?

It all boils down to vested interests of both the government and homeowners in HK.
Homeowners don't want their property value to drop. The government is also dependent on property-related revenue to fund government operations.

In Singapore Lee Kuan Yew, before he stepped down, amended the constitution which disallow the spending of land sales revenue so that future governments can't fund social welfare just by selling more land/raising land price. In this way vested interests by the government are reduced.



Do you still believe the lack of land is the reason for high property prices? Canada and Australia have land sizes of a continent with just 20-30m people, so why is their property prices in the city so high?

The response that we received from HK gov't is not all the "Green" lands are suitable for bulidng apartment, also we have some "environmentialist" councilors will veto everything that will increase our land supply, and not to mention many suitable lands in New Terrority are owned by the HK natives and it will need a crazy overprice to buy them back.
If you follow the news in HK, our HK gov't plans to build an island that can expand our land supply for the next 15 years but still it got attacked by large corporations and populists. One thing I noticed that unlike Singapore, HK has a strong opposition that against everything will benefit HK. I'm not talking about those big greedy corporations, but those politicans that need land supply issue for their elections and instability for their hidden agenda. Let's be honest, buliding an island in the middle of a sea for me is a pretty desperate move by our gov't.