Chinese cars 'still below par'

[shuttler]

ok. but what about Safety, Build Quality, Well engineere...

There are still magins for improvement for our car makers
I dont see indian braggers are ahead of us!

 

[shuttler]

China's March auto sales up 13.3 percent

http://news.yahoo.com/Apr 11, 2013

Drivers bought a total of 4.4 million cars in the first three months of the year, up 17.2 percent from a year earlier, according to CAAM. Total vehicle sales rose 13.2 percent to 5.4 million.

Sales in March by Chinese domestic brands rose 14 percent to 688,000 vehicles, the group said.

We cannot pick up the slack of japanese cars, just able to maintain average growth. us german and s. korean cars have taken up the loss from japanese car sales.

 

[gubbi]

Even good for war !






Battle Proven !

Ah! the Chinese made "Technicals"!!
So basically this proves that China does interfere in internal conflicts of other countries, especially helping the 'rebels'... no?

 

[shuttler]

i gues only 2 countries can beat india in manufacturing kick @ss motorcycles. Japan and USA
hold on. ducati is from italy right?

I dont think too many countries will agree to this statement except for the delusional bragging indians

So basically this proves that China does interfere in internal conflicts of other countries, especially helping the 'rebels'... no?

how much proof from a picture? cheerleader!

typical indian simpleton mindset. first to look for scapegoats - either China and/or Pakistan are the easy targets!

 

[shuttler]

Chinese carmakers are improving dramatically
– GAF interview with Pedro Kutney, chief editor of Automotive Business Brazil
by Wayne Xing 2012-09-07

Aritcle

Q: The major export market of JAC is in Brazil, where JAC sold 24,000 vehicles in 2011. Have you ever talked about Chinese vehicles with people around you? Generally speaking, what do they think of Chinese vehicles?

Kutney: Yes JAC was the major Chinese vehicle brand in Brazil last year, and importer SHC Group is expected to grow to 45,000 units this year. But after the Brazilian government increased import tariffs at the end of 2011, this expectation was reduced to 30,000.

JAC representative announced last year to invest $500 million to build a factory but last month the plan was put on hold due to some regulation uncertainties.

The second best sold Chinese brand in Brazil is Chery, which is also building a factory in the country, but did not cancel this plan. Chery sold 22,000 units last year and expects to sell 60,000 this year. Again with increased tariffs, the target was reduced to 30,000.

So, after this little introduction, the answer to the question is yes, I do often talk with people about Chinese vehicles, and I already have driven JAC and Chery cars here. Like myself, most Brazilians think the price is good when compared to a similar car made in Brazil. The design is also comparable with great brands. But most consumers have some concerns about reliability and aftermarket service. However, I think this view is changing fast, as importers and Chinese automakers are improving dramatically their quality as time goes by.

Q: What do you think of the Chinese brands over the past several years? What do you think that they should do to further improve?

Kutney: I think Chinese vehicle OEMs are doing fine over the past years, powered by the huge Chinese market. But there are still some room to improve quality and design to be successful worldwide. I also think they are following the right way to be successful internationally, acquiring technology from reputed suppliers and contacting good design offices in Europe. However, all of this takes time, just like Japanese and Korean car makers have taken several years to be able to make some of the best cars in the world. Now Chinese brands have to build their image, with good products, marketing strategies and more publicity.

 

[Shinigami]

I dont think too many countries will agree to this statement except for the delusional bragging indians



how much proof from a picture? cheerleader!

typical indian simpleton mindset. first to look for scapegoats - either China and/or Pakistan are the easy targets!

what do you have to say about this guys comment?

If nobody believes that Indian cars are better. Read this review from a reputed car advice website here in straya. Mahindra XUV500 Review |*CarAdvice

It concludes with:

With a drive-away price starting at $29,900 for the 2WD version and $32,900 for the AWD version the Mahindra XUV500 is priced aggressively to help find favour among car buyers in Australia, though even if the styling won’t be for everyone the XUV500 is a surprise package that shows India is ahead of China in the car-building stakes.

 

[GDan]

Four door sports car? Now thats wicked.

It does look very nice, but that car(The Fisker Karma) was designed by a Danish man working for an American carmaker and was manufactured in Finland. It is definitely not Chinese.

 

[Genesis]

yea, what else is new. Guess what at one point Hyundai was crap, at one point Japanese cars were trash, at one point American cars were the joke.

Brands take time, the Chinese luxury brands are just starting out, you can't really compare it. However, our industrial base is huge, creative force massive and funding unlimited. So tell me how are we not going into the right direction?

Worse comes to worse, our own cars will always have a market here at home and that will be the benefit of doing business from a major economy. If we are ever defeated, we can retreat, tend to our wounds, fix the problem and attack once more.

 

[Beerbal]

What is the point in opening such thread, We all know China rely on quantity. We all know there quality is pathetic.


No one buy chines product for quality, we all buy coz its cheap...

Movie "126 hours": Franco was trying to cut his hand (as it was trapped into heavy rock), the knife betrayed him, the actor quoting in movie "Never buy chinese products, they always betray you"..

Its universal truth...

 

[Peregrine]

It does look very nice, but that car(The Fisker Karma) was designed by a Danish man working for an American carmaker and was manufactured in Finland. It is definitely not Chinese.

True and Fisker Karma is in talks with the Chinese to avoid bankruptcy. So it may very well become Chinese soon.

 

[rott]

I have pulsar 200 ns . I find even the word 'gulsar' extremely derogating to my "euripedes" .

Gulsar would shatter into oblivion on a speed breaker for god's sake .

Pulsar - Infamously renowned as "THE NUT CRACKER" in India. The design is flawed.
In an emergency situation, the rider dies before the impact. Reason? The Riders nuts get jammed between the fuel tank when braked hard. That's the bitter truth.

 

[Cherokee]

Pulsar - Infamously renowned as "THE NUT CRACKER" in India. The design is flawed.
In an emergency situation, the rider dies before the impact. Reason? The Riders nuts get jammed between the fuel tank when braked hard. That's the bitter truth.

The first model of p150 launched a decade back was named that . Pulsar has come a long way from there .
pulsar 200 ns mexico - YouTube

check for many such reviews , not by Indians but Latin Americans and Far easterners as well

 

[Banana]

Awwww! Did I just spoil your lil orgasm fest?
Not standing for anyone the thread is related to Chinese cars so posting pictures of their cars here......There is no need for you to act out.

Chinese automakers have relied too much on foreign companies to be competitive and the gap between domestic and foreign brands threatens to get bigger.

Foreign companies helped kick-start China's auto industry, and offered easy success as Chinese automakers earned enormous profits from the sale of foreign-brand cars.

But it has also bred complacency.

For a time, the problems were masked by glowing sales statistics, but as the market stutters, the problems have become obvious, said Zhong Shi, an independent auto industry analyst in Beijing.

Auto sales in the country experienced a decade of double-digit growth up to 2011. But those figures were achieved by allowing foreign automakers to build vehicles in joint ventures with local companies, most of them state-owned.

As foreign multinationals took advantage of low labor costs to tap into the world's largest auto market, China hoped that it would attract foreign investment and obtain technology to build up its own auto industry and catch up with the West.

Today, big names such as General Motors, Volkswagen and Toyota are dominant in China.

Despite the overall slowdown in the Chinese market, these brands remain confident about growth and are racing to increase capacity at their joint ventures in the country, where customers prefer foreign-brand cars.

Local brands still lag far behind in terms of both technology and market share. To make matters worse, they are losing out to foreign rivals even in the low-end market.

Analysts warned that half of them risk being wiped out sooner or later.

Unwanted side effects

Jia Xinguang, another independent analyst, said that while it had benefited from the joint ventures, China had overlooked the "side effects" - over-dependence on ready-made technology and foreign dominance.

Turning a deaf ear to calls to develop their own intellectual property, some state-owned automakers opted for the easy way, relying on their foreign partners for profits while paying lip service to independent research and development, he said.

First Automobile Works Group is an example. Involved in ventures with Volkswagen, Toyota and Mazda, it promised in high-profile publicity to develop self-owned brands at all costs.

But after a one-year probe, the National Audit Office revealed in June that FAW had not sufficiently invested in independently researching and developing its own models and that its 2008-2010 profits stemmed largely from joint ventures. The audit report was no surprise for Chinese auto fans.

Since the 1990s, a series of FAW vehicles sporting the top Red Flag brand, a Communist symbol, have been based on foreign-brand products, including the Audi 100, Lincoln Town Car and Toyota Crown Majesta.

FAW came under the spotlight again last month following an intellectual property dispute with Volkswagen, which is investigating whether its Chinese partner illegally copied its engine designs and plans to export a model equipped with the engines.

"The claim of some state enterprises that they are developing their own models is a marketing stunt intended to show they are listening to state leaders, or else a blatant lie," claimed Jia. "I tell the truth and so they don't like me."

Failing to convince

Criticism has intensified as some state-owned automakers and their joint venture partners launch so-called self-developed local-brand cars. The cars are no more than low-priced, rebadged and relaunched versions of foreign-brand models that just went out of production. {Pictures of cars you posted are these. }

Examples are the Everus S1, which is based on the Guangzhou Honda City, the Venucia D50 based on the Dongfeng Nissan Tiida or the Ciimo based on the Dongfeng Honda Civic. Ironically, dealers of the Ciimo in Beijing changed the car's new logo back to Honda's "H"to boost sales because customers prefer foreign brands to real domestic ones, which have a poor reputation for quality.

Though some said that relaunching foreign-brand models as local-brand ones complied with government policy that aims to push foreign companies to transfer technology, many doubted that using outdated foreign technology for "self-developed" cars could provide any long-term benefit.

Without self-owned technology, the Chinese would have to continue depending on foreigners to launch future generations of these cars, they said.

"This is corruption because the policy is made to favor foreign automakers, but not local ones," said Rao Da, chief of the China Passenger Car Association and son of the man who headed FAW in the time of Mao Zedong. "How come we were able to design and manufacture the luxury Red Flag limousine in the 1950s but needed to import steering technology for mid-sized trucks in the 1980s?"

He believes that using foreign technology wherever possible discourages Chinese technicians from improving and that is why big state-owned automakers have so far failed to stop their own brands losing ground.

Too many JVs

Although China's auto industry is widely believed to be overdependent on foreign companies, auto factories continue to sprout across the nation.

Volkswagen and its partner Shanghai Auto are building their seventh plant, Ford said it would build its sixth, and Renault and Nissan's luxury brand Infiniti both said they would begin to produce vehicles here in two years.

Dong Yang, chief of the China Association of Automobile Manufacturers, said, "The joint ventures are undeniably successful, but we have attracted enough foreign investment and don't need to open the industry further."

"The government should immediately halt approvals of new joint ventures," Rao warned. "Opening the industry any further will kill off local automakers and even threaten national security."

"It's not joint ventures and huge car sale volumes that will make China's auto industry strong. What we need are domestic companies with strong capabilities in research and development," he added.

Wishful thinking

Many people are persuaded that the Chinese auto industry followed a strategy of "trading the market for technology," but analysts said this was wishful thinking because core technology can only be acquired by paying high prices or by doing independent research.

"Right now, China is powerless to break away from foreign automakers and their joint ventures. On the other hand, it must promote its own auto industry by taking the tough technology lessons they have so far neglected. That is the only way to stop the dependence deepening," said Zhong.

Wang Xiaoguang, a policymaking adviser at the Chinese Academy of Governance, said that industry policy was fundamentally mistaken and that China should stop state enterprises relying on joint ventures for easy money without doing any real R&D. "Otherwise, they are doomed to fail," he said.

Chinese automakers depend too much on foreign technology - China.org.cn

Unfortunately people from third world countries tend to laugh at each others progress.

Does your country even make Cars?

No!

The Whole World laughs at you.

 

[Banana]

..........................................................

 

[Peregrine]

Chinese automakers depend too much on foreign technology - China.org.cn

Interesting read from forbes

There are over 100 automakers in China compared to only two major American car companies today: General Motors and Ford. Shanghai Automotive is the country’s biggest by revenue: $33.6 billion in 2010. Geely Automotive is another major. It’s best known for the London taxi cabs it produces, and its 2010

Geely builds London's famous cabs.

acquisition of Volvo from Ford.

Still, China’s cars are far from winning the hearts and minds of the locals.

“We asked people about that: whether they would be open to buy a Chinese made luxury car instead of a foreign premium and forty percent said they were open to it,” says Sha Sha. “This is a market that’s five to 10 years away yet. China is very much an open market for the big global auto makers,” she says. “The bar for the locals is very high.”

In the world of passenger cars, China’s auto companies are where the Japanese were in the 1970s, or Korea in the late 1980s. Today, Toyota is the best selling car again in the U.S. It’s Lexus brand is one of the best selling luxury cars in the U.S. Hyundai’s Equus gets compared all the time to Lexus and Mercedes Benz in auto magazines.

“It’s going to take a lot of talent and a lot of really good management to bring China’s car companies on par with Japanese and Korean automakers,” says Kaas. The recent news that the government is saying it will buy cars from China original equipment makers (read: local brands) is a sign that Beijing is pushing for more global players to partner with the locals. GM, for instance, partners with Shanghai Automotive. There, Shanghai Automotive Group can copy a little bit there. Tweak a little bit here, for their home grown models.

“Not all Chinese automakers are going to go after the luxury segment,” says Sha Sha, citing Great Wall Motors as an example. They’ve got SUVs, sedans, pick-ups and minis.

Passenger cars or luxury, China is the powertrain for global auto makers now. They’re the powertrain now because the majors are looking into the future now, and the future for premium and standard passenger vehicles is in China.

“China is impacting investment decisions of these major car companies,” says Kaas. “The country matters a lot for corporate strategy. The industry has finite resources. Where do you want to invest it? Where do you want to focus your advertising?” he asks.

Though he thinks he has the answer: China.