Chinese Arab people

[Yzd Khalifa]

@Chinese-Dragon @ChineseTiger1986 @ChinaToday @shuttler
Check this thread out guys.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Of course they are Chinese today. Who said anything else? Their Arab ancestors arrived to China 700 years ago. But their paternal line is still that of Arabs. They are conscious of their origin, their forefathers religion, culture, language etc. As you see some of them even are practicing Muslims and one of the Ding's in that clip even spoke fluent Arabic and taught the language to other Ding's.

As an Arab I find that really fascinating.

I have never heard about any Arab that has a problem with China. In fact many of us would prefer a even stronger cooperation with China, I at least.

Why do you think that they would not be comfortable with living in the Middle East? The Arab world is very cosmopolitan. The teacher of Arabic in that clip obviously did not have a problem since he stayed, probably in KSA (since the documentary mentioned that he studied at the holiest of cities in Arabia) for 6 years.

The majority of Muslims in China today are the Hui people who from my knowledge are Han Chinese - just Muslim ones, some Kazakhs and a small group of Tajiks in Xinjiang and then the Uyghur people who are of Turkic/Mongolian stock.

Correct me if I am wrong.



Thank you very much. That sounds very interesting. People that claim to be or are Sadah (plural of a Sayyid) are descendants of Prophet Muhammad (saws).

Do you know when the Pu family arrived to China? Was it during the Song dynasty? Thank you.

Back in the old ages, Chinese were the great manufacturers of things like silk, china crockery, fine jewellry, metals etc.

And all that stuff had to be sent to the West and south especially during Roman era.


And guess what, Someone had to provide transportation for all these goods.


and modern day Saudi was an ideal place. No major rivers to cross, no major mountains to climb,

no rains to clog up the dirt roads.

Hence Arabs became an important link in the East-to-West trade.


And thus started this long lasting cooperative and synergistic relations between Chinese and Arabs that lasted all the way to modern times when in 15th century AD, Portuguese like Vasco da Gama started bypassing Arabian areas because they now had huge deep sea ships.


Besides trade, political and religious upheavals in China and central Asia made many people from that area to come settle in Saudi.


there used to be an neighborhood in Taif, called Bukhariah where you could see a lot of central Asian people. I really enjoyed freshly baked bread from there.

This is off course is one such example of the link btween Arabs and the people of China and Central Asia.


peace

 

[al-Hasani]

Oh, my friend FaujHistorian KSA is full of mountains. Basically the whole South, Hejaz and even Najd which itself is a word for "highland" in Arabic.

If you read the links then the ancient Arab-Chinese relations, the really ancient ones that predate Islam with many decades, took place in Southern Arabia, more precise Yemen and Oman which are largely mountainous countries, especially Yemen. It was in connection with the Frankincense trade. Although the trade obviously happened through the sea.

"Ruxiang or xunluxiang comes from the three Dashi countries of Murbat (Maloba), Shihr (Shihe), and Dhofar (Nufa), from the depths of the remotest mountains.[35] The tree which yields this drug may generally be compared to the pine tree. Its trunk is notched with a hatchet, upon which the resin flows out, and, when hardened, turns into incense, which is gathered and made into lumps. It is transported on elephants to the Dashi (on the coast), who then load it upon their ships to exchange it for other commodities in Sanfoqi. This is the reason why it is commonly collected at and known as a product of Sanfoqi."[36]

You must be confusing the description with the Eastern Province, Kuwait, Iraq and large parts of UAE when you say flat lands.

The Portuguese traded intensively with us Arabs and there were many Arab-Portugeuse conflicts especially in regards to the slave trade in Africa and the African trade, especially along the Swahili coast. The Portuguese eventually got control of some areas of Oman and built forts and used the ports there that gave them direct access to the Indian Sea and Arabian Sea.

Otherwise you are spot on in your post, brother.

 

[Wholegrain]

Some of the non Muslim Guo and Ding people in Taiwan and Fujian have specific practices they do when they are worshipping their ancestors. One of them has a Quran that none of them can read and they place it at the family temple when they area worshipping and they don't give pork as offerings to their ancestors. But since they are not Muslim they eat the pork anyway.

This is an english article on the Ding and Guo families.

http://faculty.washington.edu/stevehar/ANTH470Fanke.pdf

 

[Wholegrain]

Besides the chinese mosques built by the Hui (they look just like Chinese temples), there were also old Arab style mosques on the coastal ports. You should go visit if you ever go to Quanzhou.

Qingjing Mosque - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quanzhou Qingjing Mosque, Ashab Mosque, Fujian

masjid : Quanzhou Qingjing Mosque

What to do in Quanzhou: China's forgotten historic port | CNN Travel

Qingjing Mosque-Quanzhou Tourist Attractions-Chinahotel

There is also Lingshan islamic cemetary in Quanzhou. Many Ding people are buried there, both Muslim and non Muslim ines.

Lingshan Islamic Cemetery - QuanzhouGuide.com

http://www.chinaculture.org/gb/en_travel/2003-09/24/content_32724.htm

 

[FaujHistorian]

Oh, my friend FaujHistorian KSA is full of mountains. Basically the whole South, Hejaz and even Najd which itself is a word for "highland" in Arabic.

If you read the links then the ancient Arab-Chinese relations, the really ancient ones that predate Islam with many decades, took place in Southern Arabia, more precise Yemen and Oman which are largely mountainous countries, especially Yemen. It was in connection with the Frankincense trade. Although the trade obviously happened through the sea.



You must be confusing the description with the Easter Province, Kuwait, Iraq and large parts of UAE when you say flat lands.

The Portuguese traded intensively with us Arabs and there were many Arab-Portugeuse conflicts especially in regards to the slave trade in Africa and the African trade, especially along the Swahili coast. The Portuguese eventually got control of some areas of Oman and built forts and used the ports there that gave them direct access to the Indian Sea and Arabian Sea.

Otherwise you are spot on in your post, brother.

Sorry for the confusion.

I didn't mean to imply that the whole of Arabian peninsula is flat land.

For example I gave example of Taif which happens to be an hour and half drive (through steep mountains) from Makkah.

This road is very similar to the road from Pakistani capital Islamabad/Pindi to the hill resort called Murree.



Off course you can also use the highway built on the old river bed (Sail Sagheer).


What I meant to say is that Arabian peninsula provided a good highway that was more open and dependable compared to the alternatives through Central Asia-Turkey.


As the Arabian peninsula was a preferred route, several ports around it cropped up.


From Eden in South, to Oman, Dubai, Kuwait etc. in the East, and ports in the West of old Ard-e-Shaam (modern day Syria Lebanon)

Chinese fin goods, and spices from South Asia and South East Asia were unloaded on the southern and Eastern ports, and taken to the Western ports using camel caravans.


Mohammad pbuh's tribe and the city of Makkah became rich thanks to this trade.



Arabian culture and language itself changed and evolved as all those traders brought in their food and culture.


Makkah too was a bustling trade town where a lot of Christian and Jew traders settled down.

Arabian language has a lot of terms absorbed from the ancient dialects/languages such as Aramaic as Arabian caravans traveled to the land of Shaam (Syria).


It is just fascinating to see and study this.


Unfortunately a lot of People think about Saudi Arabia in the prism of 1970s and oil boom now.


peace

 

[al-Hasani]

Some of the non Muslim Guo and Ding people in Taiwan and Fujian have specific practices they do when they are worshipping their ancestors. One of them has a Quran that none of them can read and they place it at the family temple when they area worshipping and they don't give pork as offerings to their ancestors. But since they are not Muslim they eat the pork anyway.

This is an english article on the Ding and Guo families.

http://faculty.washington.edu/stevehar/ANTH470Fanke.pdf

Besides the chinese mosques built by the Hui (they look just like Chinese temples), there were also old Arab style mosques on the coastal ports. You should go visit if you ever go to Quanzhou.

Qingjing Mosque - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quanzhou Qingjing Mosque, Ashab Mosque, Fujian

masjid : Quanzhou Qingjing Mosque

What to do in Quanzhou: China's forgotten historic port | CNN Travel

Qingjing Mosque-Quanzhou Tourist Attractions-Chinahotel

There is also Lingshan islamic cemetary in Quanzhou. Many Ding people are buried there, both Muslim and non Muslim ines.

Lingshan Islamic Cemetery - QuanzhouGuide.com

http://www.chinaculture.org/gb/en_travel/2003-09/24/content_32724.htm

I appreciate that you have taken your time to educate others about this issue. Thank you very much again. Are you from Taiwan? I always had a interest in Taiwan. My first toy pistol was made in Taiwan, LOL. Oh, it is quite interesting that branches of the Ding family moved all the way over to Taiwan and even crossed the Taiwan Strait.

Yes, the Chinese mosques are really interesting and very different from all the others in the world.

I will look at the sources later today. I have an exam on Wednesday do so I have to concentrate on that first.

Cheers.

Faujhistorian: You are a very wise man. LOL, I have heard that comparison from a Pakistani friend of mine regarding the Makkah-Ta'if road and that between Islambad/Pindi. Funny that you mentioned it too. Not many know all those details and are pretty ignorant about the Peninsula. I guess it must be all the Hollywood movies.

Yes, Arabic is a Semitic language and is obviously related to other Semitic languages like Aramaic, Hebrew and other Semitic languages spoken in the Middle East and Horn of Africa. The first Semitic languages originated on the Peninsula. Aramaic was spoken in large parts of the Peninsula and was even the language of trade. Even to this day there are ancient Southern Semitic languages spoken in Yemen and Oman, although only by 0.5 million people at most in total. Some are ancient Southern Arabic dialects and others completely other Semitic languages.

Yes, the Quraysh tribe where long-time merchants, indeed. Many in Hejaz where. Yes, the Jews had a long presence. Even described in the Noble Qur'an.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Saudi_Arabia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Arabian_Peninsula

Listen to the Shehri language (Southern Semitic language and Southern Arabian language) The accent has many similarities with Hebrew: Nearly completely different from Arabic. I hardly understand anything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_bz6-lwC0s&feature=player_embedded

They have that -ot suffix that you find in Hebrew. "Banot" - "girls" in Hebrew as apposed to "banat" in Arabic.

 

[Wholegrain]

I appreciate that you have taken your time to educate others about this issue. Thank you very much again. Are you from Taiwan? I always had a interest in Taiwan. My first toy pistol was made in Taiwan, LOL. Oh, it is quite interesting that branches of the Ding family moved all the way over to Taiwan and even crossed the Taiwan Strait.

Yes, the Chinese mosques are really interesting and very different from all the others in the world.

I will look at the sources later today. I have an exam on Wednesday do so I have to concentrate on that first.

Cheers.

Faujhistorian: You are a very wise man. Not many know all those details and are pretty ignorant about the Peninsula. I guess it must be all the Hollywood movies.

Yes, Arabic is a Semitic language and is obviously related to other Semitic languages like Aramaic. All Semitic languages originate on the Peninsula. Aramaic was spoken in large parts of the Peninsula and was even the language of trade. Even to this day there are ancient Southern Semitic languages spoken in Yemen and Oman, although only by 0.5 million people at most in total. Some are ancient Southern Arabic dialects and others completely new languages.

I am from there, but all of us (except the native aboriginals) originated from China either recently or hundreds of years ago. Even the Taiwanese language is the same dialect spoken accross the strait in southern Fujian in China, only with some Japanese loanwords and sound changes.

 

[Hack-Hook]

if you remember the prophet saying 'if you need to go to china for education then go".

That's a metaphor 'The holy Prophet Peace be upon him meant to Bear any hardship for learning Knowledge.
Just Consider how hard it Was to travel to China at Those times

 

[Chak Bamu]

Here is a good resource:

Islam in China: A website on all things Chinese, Muslim and Islamic
Islam in China | "Seek knowledge even as far as China." – Possibly a saying of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

Check out stuff about Master Wang Ziping. He was an eminent Muslim martial artist.

 

[FaujHistorian]

if you remember the prophet saying 'if you need to go to china for education then go".

What you say is bad translation.

Back then, China didn't have big name universities and colleges.


What Mohammad pbuh most likely meant was

--- To go learn something from Chinese like making metals, silk clothing, jewelry, fire works etc.
--- To go learn the value of hard work from Chinese
--- To go learn humility and hospitality
--- To become civilized like Chinese (instead of remaining desert Beduins and tribals)



And oh by the way these lessons are still applicable to us Pakistanis today.


peace

 

[al-Hasani]

Here is a good resource:

Islam in China: A website on all things Chinese, Muslim and Islamic
Islam in China | "Seek knowledge even as far as China." – Possibly a saying of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

Check out stuff about Master Wang Ziping. He was an eminent Muslim martial artist.

Who is Master Wang Ziping? Never heard about that individual. Sounds interesting.

 

[Wholegrain]

We have many Muslims who served in China's armies against foreign enemies.

When Ming dynasty China was invaded by the Manchu Qing, Muslims led by Mi Layin and Ding Guodong raised a massive army to fight the invaders and restore a Ming prince to the throne. They were all killed in battle and the army was crushed.

In the First Sino Japanese war, a Muslim General Zuo Baogui led his men to fight to the death at the battle of Pyongyang before he was killed by Japanese artillery.

In the Boxer Rebellion, when China was attacked by the Eight Nation Alliance (Russia, America, Japan, Britain, Germany, Austria Hungary, Italy, France), a mixed army from Gansu led by Dong Fuxiang had many Muslim officers and soldiers. Two Muslim officers, Ma Fuxiang and Ma Fulu led their forces to crush the invaders at langfang and force the Seymour Expedition to retreat back to Tianjin. Many officers of their family including Ma Fulu were then killed in battle when a second expedition reached Beijing.

????????_www.chinalxnet.com

During World War 2 pro government Imams in China declared Jihad on Japan and ordered everyone to fight. There were many different groups of fighters, some were civilian guerillas who took up arms and others were regular soldiers. A Division of Hui muslims, Salar (turkic muslims from qinghai), Dongxiang (mongol muslims), Han Chinese and Tibetans were led by a Muslim General Ma Biao to fight against Japan. They were noted for fighting to death and would kill themselves instead of being captured. They fought and wonmany battles against the Japanese.

??????--?-?-??

These are some Jihadist songs in Mandarin written by Muslims which were approved by the Republic of China propaganda ministry during the war against Japan.

* ????????? *

There is a community of Chinese Muslims in Saudi Arabia who arrived with General Ma Bufang, he was ambassador of the Republic of China to Saudi Arabia. He fled to Saudi Arabia with his family and officers because the communists won the Chinese Civil War.

Among his military achivements in China was defeating the Tibetan army in 1932, sending soldiers to central China to fight Japan when Jihad was declared on the Japanese invasion (Ma Biao and his soldiers were sent by him), and sending Hui and Salar soldiers to Xinjiang to fight the Soviet Red Army and pro Soviet East Turkestan Republic Uyghur separatists led by Ehmetjan Qasim(he actually didn't lead any of the armies himself but left sub-ordinates like Ma Biao to fight for him)

His son Ma Jiyuan died last year in Saudi Arabia and the government of China issued a note of condolences in its consulate in Jeddah.

驻吉达总领事对逝世台胞亲属表示慰问

Ma Bufang's officers either defected to the Communists or fled to Taiwan after the Civil war ended. A Salar officer named Han Youwen and a Hui officer named Ma Chengxiang both fought in Xinjiang against the Soviets, Uyghurs and Mongols in the Ili Rebellion and Beitashan incident. Han defected to the communists while Ma fled to Taiwan.

After several decades Han wrote a letter to Ma to talked about their old experiences and reconnect.

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[420canada]

That's a metaphor 'The holy Prophet Peace be upon him meant to Bear any hardship for learning Knowledge.
Just Consider how hard it Was to travel to China at Those times

i agree but what i am trying to get at is that islam and China where known by each other.
@FaujHistorian.

 

[FaujHistorian]

i agree but what i am trying to get at is the islam and China where known by each other.
@FaujHistorian.

I understand what you are saying.

However a bit of correction.

Islam cannot know about Chinese. Islam is not a person, or worse and Idol.

Muslims on the other hands knew about Chinese.


why


People have known about Chinese and Chinese manufactured toys and cloth and shirts for 1000s of years before the advent of Islam.


Thanks.