Chinese Aircraft Carrier Liaoning vs INS Vikramaditya

[Abingdonboy]

my point being that china is planning to build a lot carrier post yhis experience and we will be naive to think otherwise.
the major advantage they have over us is that they have mastered the radars and avionics that they fit in their destroyers and this will help them churn out stuff without delays.
plus they will be building nuclear carriers soon enough and though its just a speculation,nevertheless its gonna happen.

All just speculation mate. I'm sure somewhere the IN's design office has plans for N-powered ACCs too. But as I keep saying, the Chinese just CAN'T jump the Western on the technological front in many/most cases. You're saying they will get nuclear powered ACCs, well in that case they'd most likely go for catapults and thus would have to develop steam "Cats" themselves (the question of them developing their own EMALS like system is too absurd) which isn't going to be an overnight process.


On the carrier front I think China and India will be about equal (of not India being slightly ahead for the immediate future) for the decades ahead.

about mig-29k..................its a gross mistake by our navy to opt for such toothless aircraft.at the best they can compete with f-16 block 52,nothing more.
it looks okay now,imagine after 10 years.

How ca you say THAT??? "toothless"- based on what exactly??

 

[he-man]

All just speculation mate. I'm sure somewhere the IN's design office has plans for N-powered ACCs too. But as I keep saying, the Chinese just CAN'T jump the Western on the technological front in many/most cases. You're saying they will get nuclear powered ACCs, well in that case they'd most likely go for catapults and thus would have to develop steam "Cats" themselves (the question of them developing their own EMALS like system is too absurd) which isn't going to be an overnight process.


On the carrier front I think China and India will be about equal (of not India being slightly ahead for the immediate future) for the decades ahead.
yup but not in this decade at least,if everything goes well then by 2030 we will have something to show

How ca you say THAT??? "toothless"- based on what exactly??

man,compare these to f-16 block 52................it has no tangible advantage
against china......................................................same story

we should have got better radar,,,ok it was not ready but what about better irst??maws??rwr??
those things are pretty mediocre in mig-29k,,,,,yes i concede jammers are quite good

 

[Dash]

have u even heard about j-15??
i hope u have.

so why this change in decision?

 

[he-man]

so why this change in decision?

@Abingdonboy

My only fear is that we will use these for iac-1 too.
for vikramaditya its fine but for iac-1 we need something better,at least a major upgrade is necessary if it has to stand a chance in post 2020 era.

and i am even alarmed at naval lca development??
its just too small and underpowered in every conceivable way to make a diff on an aircraft carrier.
whats ur opinion on this point

 

[UKBengali]

All just speculation mate. I'm sure somewhere the IN's design office has plans for N-powered ACCs too. But as I keep saying, the Chinese just CAN'T jump the Western on the technological front in many/most cases. You're saying they will get nuclear powered ACCs, well in that case they'd most likely go for catapults and thus would have to develop steam "Cats" themselves (the question of them developing their own EMALS like system is too absurd) which isn't going to be an overnight process.


On the carrier front I think China and India will be about equal (of not India being slightly ahead for the immediate future) for the decades ahead.


How ca you say THAT??? "toothless"- based on what exactly??

China would get to a very decent level of carrier experience in 10 years time.

They would have accumulated the knowledge from the Liaoning and at least one of their own carriers, which would be larger and be able to accommodate a carrier-wing almost as large as the US Navy super-carriers. The second carrier for China that would come online towards the latter part of the decade would have catapults to allow jets to take off with full fuel and weapons load. It would also be capable of operating fixed-wing AEW aircraft.

India, would in 10 years time, only have experience in operating two medium sized carriers that would be STOBAR.

I would say the Chinese would even get to a better level in carrier ops than the Indians by then.

 

[Dash]

All just speculation mate. I'm sure somewhere the IN's design office has plans for N-powered ACCs too. But as I keep saying, the Chinese just CAN'T jump the Western on the technological front in many/most cases.

when you yourself are following (in case of Chinese) then your chances of overtaking whom you are following are remote...

China would get to a very decent level of carrier experience in 10 years time.

They would have accumulated the knowledge from the Liaoning and at least one of their own carriers, which would be larger and be able to accommodate a carrier-wing almost as large as the US Navy super-carriers. The second carrier for China that would come online towards the latter part of the decade would have catapults to allow jets to take off with full fuel and weapons load. It would also be capable of operating fixed-wing AEW aircraft.

India, would in 10 years time, only have experience in operating two medium sized carriers that would be STOBAR.

I would say the Chinese would even get to a better level in carrier ops than the Indians by then.

UKBengali...the Chinese can get a lot of experience in doing so and nobody can deny that fact..but I am asking the same question again. what is the difference in fighter that they are carrying today and tomorrow. what difference it will bring them in terms of Mig29K ane J 15.

 

[UKBengali]

when you yourself are following (in case of Chinese) then your chances of overtaking whom you are following are remote...


UKBengali...the Chinese can get a lot of experience in doing so and nobody can deny that fact..but I am asking the same question again. what is the difference in fighter that they are carrying today and tomorrow. what difference it will bring them in terms of Mig29K ane J 15.

J-31 will have been deployed on carriers in 10 years time. The J-15 is just a stop-gap fighter.

 

[Dash]

J-31 will have been deployed on carriers in 10 years time. The J-15 is just a stop-gap fighter.

dont tell me that..in 10 years you dont know what fighters IN will deploy do you?

 

[UKBengali]

dont tell me that..in 10 years you dont know what fighters IN will deploy do you?

J-35? Naval FGFA?

Anyway the point is that China will have much larger carriers than the Indians have, even if the Indians have the same number of carriers as the Chinese.

China could easily go for a 75-80,000 tonne conventional carrier by end of decade and then construct a 100,000 tonne nuclear super-carrier by the mid-2020s.

China has both the financial and technological resources to do this. India has neither to be honest.

 

[Rainmaker]

this Indian piece of garbage with its cheap Mig fighters is arguably the worst carrier in the world and they want to compare it to the Liaoning.

 

[Abingdonboy]

China would get to a very decent level of carrier experience in 10 years time.

They would have accumulated the knowledge from the Liaoning and at least one of their own carriers, which would be larger and be able to accommodate a carrier-wing almost as large as the US Navy super-carriers. The second carrier for China that would come online towards the latter part of the decade would have catapults to allow jets to take off with full fuel and weapons load. It would also be capable of operating fixed-wing AEW aircraft.

India, would in 10 years time, only have experience in operating two medium sized carriers that would be STOBAR.

I would say the Chinese would even get to a better level in carrier ops than the Indians by then.

All utter, utter BS. If only it were as easy as you make out.......

 

[UKBengali]

All utter, utter BS. If only it were as easy as you make out.......

Trying to say India will be equivalent to China is not BS?

China has nearly 5 times the GDP of India and can manufacture it's own ships unlike India.

 

[Chronos]

Trying to say India will be equivalent to China is not BS?

China has nearly 5 times the GDP of India and can manufacture it's own ships unlike India.

It is the defence forum after all. You will find all sorts of phallus wavers here on both sides.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

INS Vikrant played a key role in enforcing a naval blockade on East Pakistan during the Indo-Pakistan War of 1971 and was also docked in Karachi Harbour on the 4th of December to symbolize ultimate victory and naval supremacy of the Indian Navy in Pakistani waters.

Fucking nonsense..

As for liaoning being small? lmao:

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

This is yet to be seen. It's possible they are able to churn out nice looking hulls at a similar pace to the US but there is NO WAY they're able to churn out ships up to the standards of USN CVNs and the such- they are decades behind on this front and as they are working in isolation it will take them a LONG old time to catch up. Here India, who is working closely with Western designers and nations, has the edge and should be able to catch up sooner than the Chinese.


Since when was the J-15 the Su-33? One is a derivative of the other and that too built by different nations/manufacturers with the J-15 being a result of reverse-engineering. So, yes, the J-15 is very much an unproven machine. Answer me this- how many landings has the J-15 made on a carrier? Is the J-15 certified to land at night or in rough-sea states aboard a PLA(N) ACC?



If the Chinese put an AESA in their operational J-15s this will prove challenging to the MIG-29K/KUB of the IN for sure. However, as I've said, the Chinese have a LONG, LONG way to go before their carriers, fighters and naval aviators are up to a standard where they are threatening anyone. The biggest threat facing the PLA(N) carrier ambitions is not the USN but the inherent challenges carrier operations bring with them. All nations who are carrier-operating nations today have had to learn the hard way that the road is long and painful. The PLA(N) are quite possible a decade or more away from being a true carrier navy.


The Mig-29K vs J-15 debate is a bit redundant but I'll make the point that the RuN is retiring their SU-33s in favour of the Mig-29K. And even though the Liaoning is 30-50% larger than the Viky, the J-15 is a HUGE fighter and landing such a mammoth bird on a medium-sized carrier is fraught with danger not to mention opportunity costs (space). Even the USN operates medium-sized fighters (F-18 SH) off their 100,000 ton SUPERCARRIERS.

Woops..


P.S:J-15 is based on SU-33..