Chinese aggression is good for India's Defence

[T-50]

China doesn't want to be another's enemy.

But another (USA, India, Jap) want to be China's enemy.

Yes thats why they helped all with Nukes to others

 

[faithfulguy]

China is Enemy is not GoI gonna Deny , but this is the Fact. It is not Imaginative story , this is fact.

When India -China Border Group meeting held 10 years back India handed over Chinese Map detailed the India view of LAC and What document British has signed with Tibet govt.

After that India is still waiting China to show up their version of LAC

1) China has provided Pak with Bomb and Missile technology so that India can engage with PAK .

India can counter the move by providing H-Bomb Design with Vietnam and Missile technology to Vietnam also , how will Chinese govt React then?
.
2) Indian Boarder patrols dont carry any wepon while moving , that is not same from Chinese.

3) Chinese Missile target New Delhi from last 10-15 years, So India has to target Chinese.

4) Chinese claim their Spear of Influence while dealing with US , saying give is indian Ocean to Manage , so why cant India move in south china sea and build a port in Vietnam also.

All this will be done in few years , in swift and decisive move.

Aggression can be judge by the things that happen on the ground.

1) Did India successfully tested a H bomb?
2) How is border patrol anything to do with conflicts between India and China. If India is threaten by border patrol from China, India is in trouble. But I'm certain this is not the case
3)OK. China's missile target Taiwan. But Taiwan do no have missile target China.
4) India certainly can. Can America build a port in India and station troops in India to protect India from China. In the near future, this would be needed to keep India safe. In a few year, I believe. India can be an ally of US just like Japan, England and Germany

 

[Khajur]

Rediff.com's Sheela Bhatt presents excerpts from former national security advisor Brajesh Mishra's talk on the threat faced by India [ Images ] from its 'hegemonistic' neighbour.

Former NSA Brajesh Mishra, during whose tenure India-China relations had improved significantly, has said that China's present threat to India is more dangerous than in 1962, when the countries clashed in a war, and that Indian politicians were to blame for India's weak defence position.

Mishra, who was the NSA during the Atal Bihari Vajpayee-led government, pointed out at a book-release function in New Delhi [ Images ] that there has been a change in China's stand regarding Kashmir, which could lead to a bigger threat.

India should remember that "we had two fronts since 1962", he said.

"But, importantly, these two fronts were never simultaneously active. In 1962, it was with China, and in 1965, 1971 and 1999 it was with Pakistan. The change that is taking place today in Chinese thinking is that Jammu and Kashmir [ Images ] is 'an issue'.

"It indicates that it's possible, if not probable, that in next four to five years we may have to defend ourselves from both fronts at the same time."

He said there has been no change in Pakistan's policy as it has been continuing with what it has been doing.

"The Army of Pakistan is the State of Pakistan. They are not only guardian of Pakistan, but consider themselves to be the 'State'. On three questions they have had supreme authority: on Pakistan's relations with India, their relations with Afghanistan and the nuclear issue. So, Pakistan has not changed, while China has become more hostile," Misha said.

At the seminar, Mishra also released two books -- The Dragon's Fire: Chinese Military Strategy and Its Implications for Asia by Rajeswari Rajagopalan and Arming the Indian Arsenal [ Images ]: Challenges and Policy Options by Deba Mohanty published by the Observer Research Foundation.

Mishra said he did not believe the view that China was an enigma.

"It is very clear to me China has one goal, which it is pursuing since 1979 when Deng Xiaoping came out with his policy of modernisation. Thirty years later, we can see the results in economic and military fields. China is very strong compared to India. We are now facing the problem today which is much more dangerous than what we faced in 1962."

"In the last two years, China has become very aggressive in its attitude towards India, whether it is on the Line of Actual Control or through their writings of the think-tanks or other official media," he added.

Mishra said China was turning hegemonistic.

"It's not true that China has settled all its boundary problems," he said, adding that China had maritime issues with Japan [ Images ] and South Korea, and wants to prevail on South China Sea over the Philippines, Vietnam, Indonesia and Malaysia.

"China is just waiting for a few more years before it asserts itself in the area," he added.

According to Mishra, China has three rivals in Asia: Japan, Australia [ Images ] and India. While Japan and Australia have nuclear umbrellas for their protection, India has none.

"India is not prepared to face the situation," he declared.

Mishra blamed the country's electoral politics and corruption for the country's weak position. There is a "lack of national security culture amongst politicians," he said.

Weapon procurement takes long time in India, the former NSA said, adding that even if India did place an order for the 126 fighter jets next year as planned, they will be delivered only after 10 years.

However, he said, "It is unlikely that the order will be placed next year and when the aircraft are delivered, they will be outdated."

Mishra alleged that the national security was being compromised because of the electoral politics of politicians.

"Even 20 years after the Bofors scandal, the burden of the controversy is still on the shoulders of politicians. They are afraid to take decisions that might generate controversy. They have fear of allegations of corruption," he said.

Mishra said that unless India took the issue of national security seriously, it would never be able become a great power.

He minced no words to say that India should not trust China, whose only all-weather friend was Pakistan.

"They don't see any other country, including Russia [ Images ], as its friend," he said.

"Recently, Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin [ Images ] went to China. They signed a contract worth around $5 billion. After a few days, China blamed Russia saying it was a 'fair weather friend'," Mishra said.

He said China wants a G-2 with US and itself alone, however Russia is contesting its claim into the group.

Mishra conceded that China had "full control" over Asia today, and that India should defend itself through its policies and diplomacy, and should continue to rise economically.

Former army chief General V P Malik, who also attended the event, said the nexus between defence public sector companies, the ordinance boards and the defence ministry has created a "protective mindset", which did not facilitate private sector participation in defence production.

General Malik, who had to face the Kargil [ Images ] War with "whatever we have", said the absence of a "stated defence procurement policy" was a big problem in meeting the requirements of the forces.

He said there was an urgent need to include defence economists to build an integrated defence planning.

The former army chief warned against the territorial ambitions of China, as there is a gap in views between China's defence organisation, the Peoples Liberation Army, and the political leadership.

Brigadier (retired) Gurmeet Kanwal, director of the Centre for Land Warfare Studies, said though there was a strategic stability along the India-China border, there was aggressiveness at the tactical level.

Noting that the gap between the capabilities of India and China were growing in favour of "our big neighbour", he opined that it would be better to resolve the border disputes quickly because "China will be capable of dictating terms in 15 years from now".

India cannot trust China: Former NSA: Rediff.com India News

 

[Sino-PakFriendship]

Yes thats why they helped all with Nukes to others

1. India is funding Tibetan independence, Jap is funding Taiwan independence, USA is funding Tibetan independence, Taiwan independence and East Turkistan terrorism against China.

2. India, Jap, USA try to set up Asian NATO to encircle China and military threat to China.

 

[Red Dwarf]

1. India is funding Tibetan independence, Jap is funding Taiwan independence, USA is funding Tibetan independence, Taiwan independence and East Turkistan terrorism against China.

2. India, Jap, USA try to set up Asian NATO to encircle China and military threat to China.

omg poor China. They are surrounded by their blood thirst enemies and they are sowing instabilities in China. Where is UN. Where is other other countries. Can't others see the struggling of China. The world must be a cruel place. They got eyes to see the atrocities in other countries but they don't have eyes for China.

 

[faithfulguy]

Rediff.com's Sheela Bhatt presents excerpts from former national security advisor Brajesh Mishra's talk on the threat faced by India [ Images ] from its 'hegemonistic' neighbour.

Former NSA Brajesh Mishra, during whose tenure India-China relations had improved significantly, has said that China's present threat to India is more dangerous than in 1962, when the countries clashed in a war, and that Indian politicians were to blame for India's weak defence position.

Mishra, who was the NSA during the Atal Bihari Vajpayee-led government, pointed out at a book-release function in New Delhi [ Images ] that there has been a change in China's stand regarding Kashmir, which could lead to a bigger threat.

India should remember that "we had two fronts since 1962", he said.

"But, importantly, these two fronts were never simultaneously active. In 1962, it was with China, and in 1965, 1971 and 1999 it was with Pakistan. The change that is taking place today in Chinese thinking is that Jammu and Kashmir [ Images ] is 'an issue'.

"It indicates that it's possible, if not probable, that in next four to five years we may have to defend ourselves from both fronts at the same time."

He said there has been no change in Pakistan's policy as it has been continuing with what it has been doing.

"The Army of Pakistan is the State of Pakistan. They are not only guardian of Pakistan, but consider themselves to be the 'State'. On three questions they have had supreme authority: on Pakistan's relations with India, their relations with Afghanistan and the nuclear issue. So, Pakistan has not changed, while China has become more hostile," Misha said.

At the seminar, Mishra also released two books -- The Dragon's Fire: Chinese Military Strategy and Its Implications for Asia by Rajeswari Rajagopalan and Arming the Indian Arsenal [ Images ]: Challenges and Policy Options by Deba Mohanty published by the Observer Research Foundation.

Mishra said he did not believe the view that China was an enigma.

"It is very clear to me China has one goal, which it is pursuing since 1979 when Deng Xiaoping came out with his policy of modernisation. Thirty years later, we can see the results in economic and military fields. China is very strong compared to India. We are now facing the problem today which is much more dangerous than what we faced in 1962."

"In the last two years, China has become very aggressive in its attitude towards India, whether it is on the Line of Actual Control or through their writings of the think-tanks or other official media," he added.

Mishra said China was turning hegemonistic.

"It's not true that China has settled all its boundary problems," he said, adding that China had maritime issues with Japan [ Images ] and South Korea, and wants to prevail on South China Sea over the Philippines, Vietnam, Indonesia and Malaysia.

"China is just waiting for a few more years before it asserts itself in the area," he added.

According to Mishra, China has three rivals in Asia: Japan, Australia [ Images ] and India. While Japan and Australia have nuclear umbrellas for their protection, India has none.

"India is not prepared to face the situation," he declared.

Mishra blamed the country's electoral politics and corruption for the country's weak position. There is a "lack of national security culture amongst politicians," he said.

Weapon procurement takes long time in India, the former NSA said, adding that even if India did place an order for the 126 fighter jets next year as planned, they will be delivered only after 10 years.

However, he said, "It is unlikely that the order will be placed next year and when the aircraft are delivered, they will be outdated."

Mishra alleged that the national security was being compromised because of the electoral politics of politicians.

"Even 20 years after the Bofors scandal, the burden of the controversy is still on the shoulders of politicians. They are afraid to take decisions that might generate controversy. They have fear of allegations of corruption," he said.

Mishra said that unless India took the issue of national security seriously, it would never be able become a great power.

He minced no words to say that India should not trust China, whose only all-weather friend was Pakistan.

"They don't see any other country, including Russia [ Images ], as its friend," he said.

"Recently, Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin [ Images ] went to China. They signed a contract worth around $5 billion. After a few days, China blamed Russia saying it was a 'fair weather friend'," Mishra said.

He said China wants a G-2 with US and itself alone, however Russia is contesting its claim into the group.

Mishra conceded that China had "full control" over Asia today, and that India should defend itself through its policies and diplomacy, and should continue to rise economically.

Former army chief General V P Malik, who also attended the event, said the nexus between defence public sector companies, the ordinance boards and the defence ministry has created a "protective mindset", which did not facilitate private sector participation in defence production.

General Malik, who had to face the Kargil [ Images ] War with "whatever we have", said the absence of a "stated defence procurement policy" was a big problem in meeting the requirements of the forces.

He said there was an urgent need to include defence economists to build an integrated defence planning.

The former army chief warned against the territorial ambitions of China, as there is a gap in views between China's defence organisation, the Peoples Liberation Army, and the political leadership.

Brigadier (retired) Gurmeet Kanwal, director of the Centre for Land Warfare Studies, said though there was a strategic stability along the India-China border, there was aggressiveness at the tactical level.

Noting that the gap between the capabilities of India and China were growing in favour of "our big neighbour", he opined that it would be better to resolve the border disputes quickly because "China will be capable of dictating terms in 15 years from now".

India cannot trust China: Former NSA: Rediff.com India News

Its the US government that proposed G2, not China. The reason for the G2 is to pull China from BRIC and Shanghai 5. China was smart enough to not take the bait.

Also, India can ask to come under US nuclear umbrella.

 

[faithfulguy]

omg poor China. They are surrounded by their blood thirst enemies and they are sowing instabilities in China. Where is UN. Where is other other countries. Can't others see the struggling of China. The world must be a cruel place. They got eyes to see the atrocities in other countries but they don't have eyes for China.

Actually, its US that want to ensure China does not challenge US supremecy. The rest of the countries are there to support the aim of the US, including India. Because its clear India is doing that, India should move to closer military/economic ties with US. I was reading that India wants ToT from the US military. US definitely can transfer technology to India such as anti-missile defence to balance China's strategic advantage. However, India must first show that its willing to join the US camp. The day India tie itself to the US lead alliance will be a major victory. Otherwise, the US should not trust India as India might go back to Russia and form a China,Russia and India alliance against the US.

 

[Hulk]

Actually, its US that want to ensure China does not challenge US supremecy. The rest of the countries are there to support the aim of the US, including India. Because its clear India is doing that, India should move to closer military/economic ties with US. I was reading that India wants ToT from the US military. US definitely can transfer technology to India such as anti-missile defence to balance China's strategic advantage. However, India must first show that its willing to join the US camp. The day India tie itself to the US lead alliance will be a major victory. Otherwise, the US should not trust India as India might go back to Russia and form a China,Russia and India alliance against the US.

We do not believe in camps and we are doing just fine. China and India are not going to fight for sure, but it will help us get attention for our defense. The original topic of discussion.

 

[faithfulguy]

We do not believe in camps and we are doing just fine. China and India are not going to fight for sure, but it will help us get attention for our defense. The original topic of discussion.

If India does not choose. It might be chosen for India. Does India want to play second fiddle to China? With the current rate of economic growth, the rate of technical growth will also increase. Soon, Chinese arms will far surpass indian arms in quality and quantity. India would inevitably require to join the US camp under less favorable terms. In another word, India can request more for a closer relationship with the US as US desire a closer relationship with India more than India want to be with the US. The time is not in the Indian side. In the future, India will give up its bases for US military in order for US to protect India.

 

[Red Dwarf]

Actually, its US that want to ensure China does not challenge US supremecy. The rest of the countries are there to support the aim of the US, including India. Because its clear India is doing that, India should move to closer military/economic ties with US. I was reading that India wants ToT from the US military. US definitely can transfer technology to India such as anti-missile defence to balance China's strategic advantage. However, India must first show that its willing to join the US camp.:usflag: The day India tie itself to the US lead alliance will be a major victory. Otherwise, the US should not trust India as India might go back to Russia and form a China,Russia and India alliance against the US.

That will never gonna happen. India signed civilian nuclear deal with US only for her own gain. India selected US mainly because of the reason that US controls the syndicate of nuclear seller countries.

 

[Hulk]

If India does not choose. It might be chosen for India. Does India want to play second fiddle to China? With the current rate of economic growth, the rate of technical growth will also increase. Soon, Chinese arms will far surpass indian arms in quality and quantity. India would inevitably require to join the US camp under less favorable terms. In another word, India can request more for a closer relationship with the US as US desire a closer relationship with India more than India want to be with the US. The time is not in the Indian side. In the future, India will give up its bases for US military in order for US to protect India.

Dude, I do not said that we will not buy weapons from US, all I said is that we will not be in their camp, their is a difference. We are trying to match up with China just to make sure we can defend ourselves and have credible deterrent. I think with the current situation and the modernization we are well set to achieve that goal. Also Russia and Israel provide us with good weapons, China is behind Russia for sure and will remain so, so we are good.

 

[jeypore]

If India does not choose. It might be chosen for India. Does India want to play second fiddle to China? With the current rate of economic growth, the rate of technical growth will also increase. Soon, Chinese arms will far surpass indian arms in quality and quantity. India would inevitably require to join the US camp under less favorable terms. In another word, India can request more for a closer relationship with the US as US desire a closer relationship with India more than India want to be with the US. The time is not in the Indian side. In the future, India will give up its bases for US military in order for US to protect India.

Isn't that enough perspection?

I bet those commies in China are thinking twice after the nuclear proliferation deal, don't you think smart guy!!!! First you have to think about Taiwan with US don't you. Why that problem is not solved, Amazing!!!!!! The great China, let me guess, needs more time for that, then it will be India.

Thanks...

 

[faithfulguy]

Dude, I do not said that we will not buy weapons from US, all I said is that we will not be in their camp, their is a difference. We are trying to match up with China just to make sure we can defend ourselves and have credible deterrent. I think with the current situation and the modernization we are well set to achieve that goal. Also Russia and Israel provide us with good weapons, China is behind Russia for sure and will remain so, so we are good.

I disagree with you. Though China will never come close to catch up to the US until at least 50 years later in terms of technology. Russian tech is actually not improving much. With how China importing and then developing technology. Its rate of improvement will increase over time. Just as China surpass economy of everyone else except the US and Japan(which will happen in 2011 if not 2010). China's technical development will enable it to surpass anyone but the US in the next 20 years or so. The reason is because technology growth is tie to wealth and the need to develop technology. China has the money, they will develop the technology.

 

[faithfulguy]

Isn't that enough perspection?

I bet those commies in China are thinking twice after the nuclear proliferation deal, don't you think smart guy!!!!

Well, its up to India to continue friendship with US. But with the idiotic Obama administration, who knows what will happen. Obama would sell out India just to get a few bucks from communist China

 

[jeypore]

Well, its up to India to continue friendship with US. But with the idiotic Obama administration, who knows what will happen. Obama would sell out India just to get a few bucks from communist China

I Think China should!!! What is few Bucks to US for India anyways, Pay it!!!!

Thanks!!!