China’s Top Chipmaker Achieves Breakthrough Despite US Curbs

[ChineseTiger1986]

What is breakthrough?

China will never indigenized her IC manufacturing to 3nm, today state of art for next decade.

But China can always do 100nm IC without any need for 3rd country core components. And F22 is using IC of 1990s. So 100nm is ok for China defence needs already.

The Beidou navigation uses the 14nm chips.

So as long as China has secured all the chips under 14nm, all China's military industry will remain unscratched.

We have already our indigenous 28nm DUV lithography machine ready, and soon the 14nm one will also be ready.

Without the EUV lithography machine, it will only affect our smartphone industry, but nothing else.

 

[Song Hong]

The Beidou navigation uses the 14nm chips.

So as long as China has secured all the chips under 14nm, all China's military industry will remain unscratched.

We have already our indigenous 28nm DUV lithography machine ready, and soon the 14nm will also be ready.

Without the EUV lithography machine, it will only affect our smartphone industry, but nothing else.

There are many 2nd hand lithography machine that can do 14nm. These are foreign made.

For defence industries, even 100nm does not matter.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

There are many 2nd hand lithography machine that can do 14nm. These are foreign made.

For defence industries, even 100nm does not matter.

Because China only trusts itself, and it will never put its fate on someone else's hand.

As long as China has managed to secure all DUV lithography machine, everything will be fined.

The EUV lithography machine is not a top priority for now.

It is also a bonus if we can crack through the EUV one to beat the entire western ecosystem.

Otherwise, with the our indigenous DUV one, our entire defense industry will be 100% secure.

 

[MH.Yang]

What is breakthrough?

China will never indigenized her IC manufacturing to 3nm, today state of art for next decade.

But China can always do 100nm IC without any need for 3rd country core components. And F22 is using IC of 1990s. So 100nm is ok for China defence needs already.

The Beidou navigation uses the 14nm chips.

So as long as China has secured all the chips under 14nm, all China's military industry will remain unscratched.

We have already our indigenous 28nm DUV lithography machine ready, and soon the 14nm one will also be ready.

Without the EUV lithography machine, it will only affect our smartphone industry, but nothing else.

What you said is exactly what Pompeo said to China in 2017. In 2017, on the eve of the trade war, the trump administration asked China to abandon the "made in China 2025" plan, especially in the semiconductor industry. Their reason is that China does not need it.

No, China needs it.

3nm is not required in 2022, which does not mean that it is not required in 2032.

And what China needs is to control the whole production chain, not just to meet domestic demand.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

What you said is exactly what Pompeo said to China in 2017. In 2017, on the eve of the trade war, the trump administration asked China to abandon the "made in China 2025" plan, especially in the semiconductor industry. Their reason is that China does not need it.

No, China needs it.

3nm is not required in 2022, which does not mean that it is not required in 2032.

And what China needs is to control the whole production chain, not just to meet domestic demand.

I am confident that we can crack the 7nm EUV lithography machine by 2025.

Once our DUV lithography machine for 28-14nm becomes fully mature, we should starve the ASML, and make sure that the entire western semiconductor industry stagnates even collapses that will buy us very little time to fully catch up or even surpass it.

 

[MH.Yang]

I am confident that we can crack the 7nm EUV lithography machine by 2025.

Once our DUV lithography for 28-14nm becomes fully mature, we should starve the ASML, and make sure that the entire western semiconductor industry stagnates even collapses that will buy us very little time to fully catch up or even surpass it.

Yes, one day, we will sell 3nm chips at the price of cow dung chips.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Yes, one day, we will sell 3nm chips at the price of cow dung chips.

We manage to destroy the entire green industry of the western world.

In the early 2010s, the western world was first trying to strangle our solar panel, and within a decade, we manage to turn the table and absolutely annihilate them.

This time, we will replicate this scenario again for our semiconductor industry.

 

[MH.Yang]

We manage to destroy the entire green industry of the western world.

In the early 2010s, the western world was first trying to strangle our solar panel, and within a decade, we manage to turn the table and absolutely annihilate them.

This time, we will replicate this scenario again for our semiconductor industry.

Not destruction, but binding.

Western countries have no ability to maintain all production links of human society, but we do. So we can let their industries rely on and integrate into our industrial chain.

We should not destroy the green industry, because the development of human green industry is beneficial to us. Countries that sell oil and coal need to destroy green industries, but we buy oil and coal.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Not destruction, but binding.

Western countries have no ability to maintain all production links of human society, but we do. So we can let their industries rely on and integrate into our industrial chain.

We should not destroy the green industry, because the development of human green industry is beneficial to us. Countries that sell oil and coal need to destroy green industries, but we buy oil and coal.

We manage to destroy their monopoly and hegemony.

The next target will be the entire semiconductor & aerospace industry, and it is also the two last remaining ones.

 

[etylo]

Well to be fair, using India’s sanitation as a standard is a very low bar. It was not that long ago when China wasn’t very clean either compared to its neighbors like Japan, Taiwan, Singapore etc. China has come a long way since then but to be honest there are still many areas that look poorly maintained. When you compare the rural areas of China to that of the US, the US is far more charming and beautifully taken care of. China does have some beautiful rural areas but most of the areas are still quite lacking in overall aesthetics and maintenance when compared to the west. China’s cities overall are much more pleasant and safe than American cities for the most part though, and at least they don’t have dangerous ghettoes.

Anyways China still has a lot of room for improvement even though it’s come a long way.

Give China little more time. China's average nominal GDP per captia is just above $12000 while that of US is above $50000. China had been at wars either with foreign powers or with itself in its own land for the most part of last few centuries while US enjoyed peace and development in its land for the past centuries. At least, China is now progressing and rather quickly by international standards.

 

[tower9]

Union Budget: Rs 86,189 crore allocated to Jal Shakti ministry

The Drinking Water and Sanitation Department has been granted Rs 67,221 crore in the Union Budget, which was presented by Finance Minister Nirmala Sitharaman on Tuesday, while the Department of Water Resources, River Development, and Ganga Rejuvenation has been allocated Rs 18,967.88 crore.

www.google.com

What’s your point? Sure india might be improving but as far as sanitation goes, it’s probably the worst country in the world, below most African countries.

 

[GreatHanWarrior]

Redirect Notice

GDP growth of 0.4٪

China's economy records slowest growth since the start of 2020

China's economy has recorded its worst quarterly performance in over two years, after months of harsh Covid lockdowns wreaked havoc across the country.

www.cnn.com

Two unstable neighbors of

China's debt bomb looks ready to explode

Many warning signs suggesting that a debt reckoning is imminent

asia.nikkei.com

Pakistan's Economy Is In Deep Crisis, Tweets Economist Atif Mian

In a series of tweets, Pakistan-born economist Atif Mian analyses how the Pakistani rupee has lost 20% of its value and that the key issue will be

www.google.com

IMF Says Bangladesh Is Set to Overtake India in Per Capita GDP. Here's Why

IMF Says Bangladesh Is Set to Overtake India in Per Capita GDP. Here's Why

Bangladesh has over the years managed to grow its exports, leading to a rise in its per capita GDP growth, and is now set to overtake India which had a significant lead over it a few years ago.

m.thewire.in

World Bank Open Data

Free and open access to global development data

data.worldbank.org

China: share of business fleets by OEM 2021 | Statista

As of June 2021, Gulfstream ranked highest among the eight business jet original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) in China, with a 37 percent market share.

www.statista.com

In the first three months of the year, entities in China paid a total of US$107.2 billion for 140.3 billion IC units, up 14.6 per cent year on year.
As for the semiconductors to be used in China, they should be basically differentiated between domestic market demand and processing and assembly for export, such as assembling cell phones for Apple and assembling computers for HP, Dell, Acer and Asus.
However, according to a survey conducted by the China Semiconductor Industry Association's design branch, China's IC design industry had total revenue of CNY458.7 billion (US$67.94 billion) in 2021, contributing 43.2% of the entire semiconductor industry's output value, and the number of practitioners in the thriving IC design industry increased from 200,000 in 2020 to 225,000.
As for Taiwan, its IC design industry output was US$44.8 billion, and according to the data of Taiwan Semiconductor Industry Association (TSIA), there are nearly 50,000 practitioners in Taiwan's IC design industry, including 36,000 R&D personnel and 13,500 non-R&D personnel. The figures lead us to question whether we are doing such comparisons of Taiwan and China on the same bases.
The per capita output value of Taiwans IC design industry exceeds far that of China. The total output value of the global IC design industry is only US$189.9 billion, so if China's data is taken at face value, it means China accounts for one-third of the world's total.
If we interpret China's industry from the country's publicly disclosed data, it will be easy to come to misleading conclusions. At present, 49 Chinese IC design companies are publicly traded, which means their information can be more easily accessed, helping researchers better understand China's semiconductor industry structure.

Both Taiwan and South Korea export 60% of their semiconductors to China, while China still produces a low percentage of its own semiconductors for use in its own market. The CEO of SMIC, Haijun Zhao, estimates that percentage at about 5%. This reflects the current situations.

Chinese firm exports transistor chips for Indian locomotives

Chinese firm exports transistor chips for Indian locomotives

The China-made chips are currently used on the 7,200-kilowatt electric locomotives that power it's high-speed trains.

m.economictimes.com

 

[MH.Yang]

India's FY22 per capita income projected higher than Bangladesh: IMF​

https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/profile/IND

The link you sent doesn't show that India's per capita GDP is higher than Bangladesh.

As far as I know. In 2021, India's per capita GDP was US $2239. Bangladesh's per capita GDP is US $2462.

 

[MH.Yang]

Source: CCP/BBS

https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/profile/BGD

How Covid lockdowns and property market slump are dragging China's economy - Times of India

India Business News: China's economic growth slowed sharply in the second quarter, highlighting the colossal toll on activity from widespread COVID lockdowns and pointing

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

The link you sent doesn't show that India's per capita GDP is higher than Bangladesh.

 

[serenity]

Well china has made 7nm since last year in commercial level scale and since 2019 in lab level using finfet and a DUV method.

Euvl is still not mastered but it's one of many ingredients to it and it's the only real missing one. Everything else has long been mastered domestically or recently. 7nm nodes have many paths to achieving. Euvl is the established one. China had equivalents to it in processing density using stacking and wafer bonding but not equivalent for cooling. Euvl is still important especially to 5nm and below.

28nm and 14nm are also made in Thailand and Malaysia by the main players. But those countries don't have the technologies. TSMC opening factory in US surely would mean transferring technology and US ability to master tsmc's process is higher than Malaysia or Thailand of course the two don't put much effort into it as it requires deep and long industrial basis to do that and US clearly can and wants to. India wants others to make inside India like that but will not have the tech. India has no processes let alone the equipment to make it. Whatever the trolls want to say. Who cares. Reality is Chinese chips using 7nm nodes are being made bought and sold. Using 14nm nodes have been sine 2020.

These are just logic chips which is the main one and the greatest comparative weakness. But till TSMC opens up in USA, China is one of the few countries which can independently produce chips at commercial level down to 7nm now.