China’s SWIFT alternative may undercut US sanctions

[TechMan]

No idea why another system has not been fully adopted yet. SWIFT is not some rocket science. It's just a system between banks and financial institutions about sending/receiving money/data. It's not like you need major technical expertise to make nukes or send someone to Mars. I think lack of political will and countries willing to join is the main hinderance.

 

[MH.Yang]

You are clueless. If you have USD, euros, yen, Sterling then your money is not in China but in US, EU, Japan and UK. Those countries can seize your money.

Putin has $500b in foreign money he can’t access it now.

He has $130b in gold. The question is where is the gold? If it’s stored in the west then that gold is taken from him away.

2/3 of global economy has now put Russia under sanctions.

You can google the Russian news of the past few years.

The Russians have long sold all US debt, they bought a lot of gold and shipped it back to Russia.

Russians are not fools, they were ready for sanctions years ago.

Moreover, Russia's overseas assets are also concentrated in China. For example, in July 2021 alone, Russia transferred $10 billion and £ 2.1 billion from western countries to the Bank of China. That should be Russia's last fund to stay in the West. That news can be obtained by Google.

 

[QWECXZ]

No idea why another system has not been fully adopted yet. SWIFT is not some rocket science. It's just a system between banks and financial institutions about sending/receiving money/data. It's not like you need major technical expertise to make nukes or send someone to Mars. I think lack of political will and countries willing to join is the main hinderance.

Because nearly all of the world are busy kissing the US *** all the time. Particularly Europe, Japan, South Korea and Arabs.

 

[Shotgunner51]

Anyone other than China?
Iran, Venezuela, Cuba, Belarus, Syria, even India, etc.

The US is shooting itself in the foot with this move.

Indeed. On top of crude oil takers like you've listed, China being world's largest refiner might help Russian oil indirectly flow to a lot more countries in form of refined products. US sanction is self-defeating joke.

World's top 5 oil exploration & production companies:

1. Saudi Aramco (world's 1st largest explorer, 4th largest refiner @ 3.6 million b/d)
2. Sinopec group (world's 1st largest refiner @ 6.14 million b/d)
3. PetroChina (world's 2nd largest refiner @ 4.83 million b/d)
4. Kuwait Petroleum Corporation
5. Royal Dutch Shell

Top 10 Exploration and Production Companies of the world - Insights - Energy Dais

Here is the list of ten leaders of the oil exploration and production companies of the world which stood the test of the times.

insights.energydais.com

 

[Viet]

You underestimate Russia.
Of course, Russia is not China, but Russia also is not Vietnam.

Russia has a complete industrial system and the world's largest resources. Even if foreign trade is completely closed, Russians can live a good life.
We Chinese only opened a window for our neighbors in the north, they don't rely on us. On the contrary, we rely on Russian resources.

Putin daydreams of the return of USSR.
In doing so he brings his country down from high income to low income.

Yes he can make his country rich because Russia as you say it have complete industrial system, largest resources however making his country rich people having foods is not his top priority.

 

[Rafi]

Putin daydreams of the return of USSR.
In doing so he brings his country down from high income to low income.

Yes he can make his country rich because Russia as you say it have complete industrial system, largest resources however making his country rich people having foods is not his top priority.

China is a big winner in this, it will facilitate its rise in military, economic and technological superpower status.

 

[MH.Yang]

Russia is under sanction and she cant sell anyone other than China. Since Russia cannot trade in open market, she has no control of oil price now.

But China will be buying more Russian stuff and keep it afloat.

Recently Russia is become one of world largest food exporter (USSR still need to import food), I guess China may buy from Russia and dump Australia/USA.

USA is also a major grain exporter. The biggest condition of the trade war truce given by trump to China is to ask China buy more American food. China's grain reserves now account for 60 +% of the world's grain reserves, which was forced by trump.

 

[Beidou2020]

People are too lazy to move away from a system that works. Therefore no incentive to develop an alternative. This was the case until SWIFT was weaponised by the Western despots against Iran.

Then China and Russia saw this as a national security threat and developed its own domestic SWIFT alternative in case both were cut off from SWIFT.

China’s CIPS and Russia’s SPFS are the domestic alternatives to SWIFT. For example, CIPS does yuan clearing and settlement and also has an in-built messaging service. Whereas SWIFT is purely a messaging service, it does not do clearing and settlement of currencies.

US dollar clearing and settlement is done by CHIPS.

If cut off from SWIFT, the world doesn’t stop trading with Russia and China. There will always be alternatives, CIPS and SPFS are the alternatives.

West saw what happened to Iran with cutting off from SWIFT. So they think the impact will be the same against Russia and China. But Iran was never prepared for it. They didn’t have a domestic alternative.

SWIFT and CHIPS are the most powerful sanctions weapon they have in their arsenal. It is the ‘nuclear option’ in terms of sanctions. Other sanctions aren’t that effective such as denying access to financial markets, denying access to consumer markets, denying access to high-end technology, freezing assets. Denying access to currency payment clearing is the most effective.

 

[Viet]

China is a big winner in this, it will facilitate its rise in military, economic and technological superpower status.

Russia is finished no matter how this war plays out. Putin gives up the West and surrenders the fate of his country into the hands of Beijing.
Why I say that? Yes unfortunately China is big winner Vietnam is finished too. Russia will stop delivery weapons or submarines to us. We will become slaves. Very regrettable.

 

[QWECXZ]

People are too lazy to move away from a system that works. Therefore no incentive to develop an alternative. This was the case until SWIFT was weaponised by the Western despots against Iran.

Then China and Russia saw this as a national security threat and developed its own domestic SWIFT alternative in case both were cut off from SWIFT.

China’s CIPS and Russia’s SPFS are the domestic alternatives to SWIFT. For example, CIPS does yuan clearing and settlement and also has an in-built messaging service. Whereas SWIFT is purely a messaging service, it does not do clearing and settlement of currencies.

US dollar clearing and settlement is done by CHIPS.

If cut off from SWIFT, the world doesn’t stop trading with Russia and China. There will always be alternatives, CIPS and SPFS are the alternatives.

West saw what happened to Iran with cutting off from SWIFT. So they think the impact will be the same against Russia and China. But Iran was never prepared for it. They didn’t have a domestic alternative.

SWIFT and CHIPS are the most powerful sanctions weapon they have in their arsenal. It is the ‘nuclear option’ in terms of sanctions. Other sanctions aren’t that effective such as denying access to financial markets, denying access to consumer markets, denying access to high-end technology, freezing assets. Denying access to currency payment clearing is the most effective.

Exactly. And in the era of decentralized networks, soon countries will be able to develop a better replacement for SWIFT which is controlled by no one directly and could be based on the concept of consensus for transaction validation.

 

[MH.Yang]

Russia is finished no matter how this war plays out. Putin gives up the West and surrenders the fate of his country into the hands of Beijing.
Why I say that? Yes unfortunately China is big winner Vietnam is finished too. Russia will stop delivery weapons or submarines to us. We will become slaves. Very regrettable.

Sudden persecution paranoia.
I suggest you learn painting, Van Gogh has the same disease as you.

 

[Indos]

This situation honestly puts China in a very awkward situation because even though Russia is a friend, China is a hardcore proponent of sovereignty and territorial integrity to protect its own interests so there is no way they can support Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. Although they will obviously offer Russia support in the form of sanctions relief.

Some countries have close cooperation with Russia, you even will be surprised with Indonesia decision in UN assembly where Indonesia is not part of 80 countries who support UN resolution to condemn Russia aggression

Russia is under sanction and she cant sell anyone other than China. Since Russia cannot trade in open market, she has no control of oil price now.

But China will be buying more Russian stuff and keep it afloat.

Recently Russia is become one of world largest food exporter (USSR still need to import food), I guess China may buy from Russia and dump Australia/USA.

Nope, the sanction at the mean time doesnt touch Russian energy sector. Even many Russia exports product can still be exported like coal, nickel, and agricultural products.

Russia is the third biggest coal exporters after Indonesia and Australia

Russia is the second or third biggest producer of Nickle after Indonesia

Both Russia and Ukraine are big producers of wheat and sunflower oil

Russia is also one of biggest alluminium producers

Huge impact will be faced by the world if the sanction is fierce enough

At the mean time the sanction is more on the ban of Western countries high technology products to be exported into Russia that will jeopardize their Aerospace sector ( Civilian business line use Western engine )

 

[applesauce]

No idea why another system has not been fully adopted yet. SWIFT is not some rocket science. It's just a system between banks and financial institutions about sending/receiving money/data. It's not like you need major technical expertise to make nukes or send someone to Mars. I think lack of political will and countries willing to join is the main hinderance.

because whos gonna use it when there is a working system in place that everyone is already on? its not pain free to add a new system.
its classic chicken or the egg. like a new operating system, why should developers make programs for your OS when there are no users, and why would users use your system when there are no programs for it?

but the situation changes when you FORCE someone, especially a supplier as large as russia to use a new system exclusively. this would mean some people will switch because they do a lot of trade with russia for example and with more and more that do, the more and more others are willing to because enough business are on it already and it snowballs. doubly so if the world's largest manufacturer, china, joins, and china almost certainly isnt going to stop trading with russia on western command.

 

[艹艹艹]

China and Russia to establish independent financial systems: Russian media
Published: Dec 17, 2021 12:47 AM

Russia and China have agreed to develop shared financial structures to deepen economic ties in a way that will not be affected by pressure of third countries following talks between the top leaders, Russian media outlet RT reported on Wednesday.

The move will help both countries deter the threat of the US government's long-arm jurisdiction based on the US dollar denominated international payment network, experts said.

During the talks on Wednesday, top leaders of the two countries called for increasing the share of national currencies in mutual settlements and expanding cooperation to provide Russian and Chinese investors with access to stock markets, said Yuri Ushakov, Putin's foreign policy advisor, according to RT.

Ushakov said that "particular attention was paid to the need to intensify efforts to form an independent financial infrastructure to service trade operations between Russia and China."

"We mean creating an infrastructure that cannot be influenced by third countries," Ushakov added.

The move appears to be Russian's response to a series threats that the US could push to disconnect Russia from the Brussels-based SWIFT financial system as a form of sanctions, Li Xin, Director of Institute for Eurasian Studies, China National Institute for SCO International Exchange and Judicial Cooperation - Shanghai University of Political Science and Law, told the Global Times on Thursday.

Li explained that currently, most bilateral transactions between China and Russia are still denominated in US dollars and traded through the SWIFT system, meaning that the US can block any transaction between China and Russia or completely block the two countries from the international trade settlement system.

"This is why China and Russia need to establish their own financial information transmission systems to protect themselves from the US' containment," Li said.

 

[dy1022]

What Afghanistan got to do with Bin Laden''s attack on USA ? NATO went to war against Afghanistan for 20 years, no excuses ! NATO is just a blood thirsty war monger, it will strike where it can and necessary. Yeah, Ukraine wants to join NATO and both want to be enemies of Russia, NATO wants to completely encircle Russia and choke it to death. You think people are that stupid that they will believe the USA controlled NATO is a peace loving organization giving the long list history of countries that had been invaded by USA in the past including Vietnam.

he is the refugee from south viet during war time, you just can not be reason with him.