China’s Submarine Fleet, Evolution & news

[Han Patriot]

China's new submarine engine is poised to revolutionize underwater warfare

It looks a lot like 'Red October' in real life.

By Jeffrey Lin and P.W. Singer 10 hours ago

RED OCTOBER SSBN

The Red October, a fictionalized version of the Akula (NATO reporting name Typhoon) submarine, has two pumpjets built into its rear for silent propulsion (though implausibly stated to use a noisy magnetohydrodynamic drive in the movie). According to Chinese state media, the nation's new nuclear submarines will soon use a similarly silent, cutting-edge pumpjet.

Paramount Pictures

In Tom Clancy's book (and, later, the 1990 film) The Hunt For Red October, a Soviet submarine debuts a revolutionary, ultra-quiet engine that uses pumpjets and electrical propulsion technology to elude its foes. Chinese state media has reported that the nation is fitting its newest nuclear sub with an engine that sounds a lot like Clancy's imaginings in the real world.

THE ADMIRAL AND THE PUMPJET

During his interview on state television, Admiral Ma Weiming, developer of the rim-driven pumpjet, shows off a laboratory, with a schematic of the pumpjet visible in the background, at right.

CCTV 13

This month, Chinese state TV channel CCTV 13 broadcast an interview with a top Chinese naval engineer, Rear Admiral Ma Weiming. The admiral is notably responsible for the development of multiple Chinese naval electromagnetic programs, including the electromagnetic catapult and railguns. In the interview, he stated that the PLAN is fitting its newest nuclear attack submarines with a "shaftless" rim-driven pumpjet, a revolutionary and silent propulsion system.

TYPE 095 SSN

The Type 095 SSN, seen in this speculative fanmade CGI, will likely have VLS cells for launching a wide range of cruise missiles, pumpjet propulsion, and improved quieting technology. (This earlier CGI shows the Type 095 with a more conventional pumpjet, though.)

Medico-MAX

If the system is being put on the latest vessels, it is likely to be used on the first Type 095 nuclear attack submarine (SSN), which is under construction.

RIM DRIVEN THRUSTER

Shown here is a Schottel built rim-driven thruster, used to propel surface ships like yachts with minimal noise (the Chinese miltary rim-driven pumpjet would look similar but much larger).

Schottel

A rim-driven pumpjet has a ring-shaped electrical motor inside the pumpjet shroud, which turns the vane rotor (a vane rotor has the fan blades attached to a rotating band built on a cylinder interior, as opposed to a propeller shaft) inside the pumpjet cavity to create thrust. Previous submarine pumpjets are "shrouded propellers," which consist of a tubular nozzle covering the propeller. By removing the shaft of the propeller, the reduction in the number of moving parts decreases the noise made by the pumpjet, as well as saving hull space. Civilian manufacturers also claim that rim driven pumpjets are easier to maintain, and have less cavitation (bubbles that form during propeller movement), making them even more quiet.

IEPS

Rear Admiral Ma presents a component of the new Chinese IEPS for naval warships; the Chinese variant is the world's first IEPS to run on a medium-voltage, direct-current system.

CCTV 13

Also in the video background was a large piece of electrical machinery, which is part of the PLAN's Integrated Electrical Propulsion System (IEPS). IEPS turns all the output of the ship's engine into electricity, unlike traditional propulsion designs, which convert engine and reactor output into mechanical action to turn the propeller shaft.

The high electrical output can be used to power motors for the propellers or potentially high-energy weapons. Additionally, IEPS has far fewer moving parts, making them quieter, and thus ideal for use on submarines. When coupled with quieter reactors like the Type 095's reported natural circulation reactor, the rim-driven pumpjet and IEPS can drastically reduce the acoustic signature of any SSN.

This combination, if it works, would be a significant gain for China's naval power. As China has gained in surface fleet numbers, stealthy planes, and longer-ranged missiles able to target U.S. carriers and air bases, America's submarine force has become viewed as its key advantage in any comparison. In turn, Chinese nuclear submarines have lagged behind competitors in their noisiness. Said another way, these innovations have the potential to strengthen a historic weakness.

The reporting is significant for two more reasons. First, it illustrates the new openness in Chinese state media to discuss the technology behind previously secretive nuclear submarines, suggesting a greater confidence in showing off new military technology in order to impress domestic and foreign audiences.

Secondly, if the system works, the Chinese may have stolen a march on the Americans and British, whose Columbia and Dreadnought nuclear ballistic missile submarine (SSBN) have the option for rim-drive pumpjets, but will not enter service until 2030. While the system would be on China's attack submarine, Chinese SSBNs could also use the rim-drive pumpjet to enhance their stealth and survivability—and, by extension, the credibility of China's second strike nuclear capability. These new submarine propulsion systems may not just power China's submarines of the future, but give Beijing a true superpower's underwater armada.

http://www.popsci.com/china-new-submarine-engine-revolutionize-underwater-warfare

Jeffrey Lin, your analysis is spot on...correct term is IEPS and yes it is to be coupled to a shaftless propeller

 

[Akasa]

Correct.


Correct.


Correct.


Correct.


Wrong. During the interview, Ma said,

“这两个得了一等奖了……这个也得了一个一等奖的……这个后来因为有了这两个技术（作为基础），这个就是我说的，是我们团队在世界上第一个领先项目，领先就是领先美国。”

It is clear that what Ma mentioned were all generators. This is also conformed by Ma's speech,

“3兆瓦级高速感应电机系统很快研制成功。这一创新成果先于美国研制成功，几步跨越确立了我国在该领域的国际领先地位。”




What Ma meant is that the 3 MW HSIG has been applied already.

So, to be clear, Ma never mentioned anything about a rim-driven pumpjet? Or is that usually implied as being part of the IEPS package?

 

[Han Patriot]

Guys from certain corners of the world in this forum have difficulty in accepting the fact that Chinese are among the smartest people in the world.

There is nothing that we can't accomplish when two conditions are met: money and time.

Do I sound racist? Of course not. I say this matter-of-fact-ly.

Imagine a country poorer than India 30 years ago...now 5x larger...it doesn't take an genius to see these people are not idiots. Given proper funding, training and infrastructure, i am confident not in an indic bragging way but a sinic result driven way, we will overtake the west technologically

So, to be clear, Ma never mentioned anything about a rim-driven pumpjet? Or is that usually implied as being part of the IEPS package?

He didn't say anything about shaftless props, he pointed at the IEPS said its being used and then pointed to a board showing the propeller and said won prizes...but you can see the whole system is coupled in the lab as an integrated system. The propeller is seen coupled in one of the frames under the board describing it. There is a Chinese saying You don't have to completely draw a sausage to know it's a sausage.

 

[Beast]

So, to be clear, Ma never mentioned anything about a rim-driven pumpjet? Or is that usually implied as being part of the IEPS package?

He claimed China is leading US by 10years in this area. Chinese scientist unlike India and Russia one, do not make unsubstantial tall claim that is not attainable. They will be sacked by CPC if their claim is found to be willfully claim.

While the western and foreigner media will keep trying to fabricated and malign Chinese scientist as boastful and make tall claim which is unfounded. My many years of Chinese scientist following conclusion is, they are very humble and only dare to make certain bold statement when they have experiment or even already implemented the system before making the statement.

 

[samsara]

Guys from certain corners of the world in this forum have difficulty in accepting the fact that Chinese are among the smartest people in the world.

There is nothing that we can't accomplish when two conditions are met: money and time.

Do I sound racist? Of course not. I say this matter-of-fact-ly.

I believe some are having the deep-seated disbelief because they take the regular dose of the widely pumped meme by the captured media that China is only capable of making low cost products and good copycats.

To say it in blatantly rude language China is only capable of copying, doing reverse engineering and stealing the technologies.

But there is no need to go extra miles to convince any one! Just let it be that. Just tell as deemed necessary, no more and no less, and it should be the principle! The Art of War should be adopted. Those who care to read and find out and be receptive will know. Those who don't, will stick with their made-to-believe values. No hard feeling.

What I do care, the real continuous progresses... whether the "Free World" recognizes it or not!

I still look forward for another decade or two when things will be way much more obvious in all or most aspects of life whereas denial is futile!

Btw, the same poster, "superdog" at SDF posted a VERY GOOD piece of pros & cons on China's military info disclosure approach lately at page 117 at the same link as posted here in the earlier page. Read it there.

 

[Beast]

I believe some are having the deep-seated disbelief because they take the regular dose of the widely pumped meme by the captured media that China is only capable of making low cost products and good copycats.

To say it in blatantly rude language China is only capable of copying, doing reverse engineering and stealing the technologies.

But there is no need to go extra miles to convince any one! Just let it be that. Just tell as deemed necessary, no more and no less, and it should be the principle! The Art of War should be adopted. Those who care to read and find out and be receptive will know. Those who don't, will stick with their made-to-believe values. No hard feeling.

What I do care, the real continuous progresses... whether the "Free World" recognizes it or not!

I still look forward for another decade or two when things will be way much more obvious in all or most aspects of life whereas denial is futile!

We are not to convince idiots but to rebuke fabricated lies.

 

[grey boy 2]

真的是无轴，内圈是转子，外圈是定子，直接通电。

 

[grey boy 2]

094A SSBN performing a "S" turn
众所周知，核潜艇因为使用核动力，具备常规潜艇难以企及的高航速，这也是核潜艇的巨大优势之一。中国094A核潜艇的水面最高航速达到20节以上，甚至能像一般舰船那样来个S形机动。（来源：辽宁号指挥长）

 

[Beast]

094A SSBN performing a "S" turn
众所周知，核潜艇因为使用核动力，具备常规潜艇难以企及的高航速，这也是核潜艇的巨大优势之一。中国094A核潜艇的水面最高航速达到20节以上，甚至能像一般舰船那样来个S形机动。（来源：辽宁号指挥长）

良好的机动性。水上能航行20节，水下还得了。

 

[grey boy 2]

JL-2B submarine launch ICBM

 

[Han Patriot]

真的是无轴，内圈是转子，外圈是定子，直接通电。

They will never believe it until they see it, after this they are going to compare and say it's lousy and we need to buy Russian, but Russia doesn't have this technology, LOL

 

[Beast]

They will never believe it until they see it, after this they are going to compare and say it's lousy and we need to buy Russian, but Russia doesn't have this technology, LOL

Next time you will hear Chinese say " USN submarine is so noisy that we can heard it from SCS the moment they left Pearl Harbor".

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Next time you will hear Chinese say " USN submarine is so noisy that we can heard it from SCS the moment they left Pearl Harbor".

I doubt those "Chinese members" from CD are real Chinese. They are either Hanjian or foreigners who can speak Chinese.

 

[CAD]

China's new submarine engine is poised to revolutionize underwater warfare


It looks a lot like 'Red October' in real life.

By Jeffrey Lin and P.W. Singer June 2, 2017

RED OCTOBER SSBN

The Red October, a fictionalized version of the Akula (NATO reporting name Typhoon) submarine, has two pumpjets built into its rear for silent propulsion (though implausibly stated to use a noisy magnetohydrodynamic drive in the movie). According to Chinese state media, the nation's new nuclear submarines will soon use a similarly silent, cutting-edge pumpjet.

Paramount Pictures

In Tom Clancy's book (and, later, the 1990 film) The Hunt For Red October, a Soviet submarine debuts a revolutionary, ultra-quiet engine that uses pumpjets and electrical propulsion technology to elude its foes. Chinese state media has reported that the nation is fitting its newest nuclear sub with an engine that sounds a lot like Clancy's imaginings in the real world.

THE ADMIRAL AND THE PUMPJET

During his interview on state television, Admiral Ma Weiming, developer of the rim-driven pumpjet, shows off a laboratory, with a schematic of the pumpjet visible in the background, at right.

CCTV 13

This month, Chinese state TV channel CCTV 13 broadcast an interview with a top Chinese naval engineer, Rear Admiral Ma Weiming. The admiral is notably responsible for the development of multiple Chinese naval electromagnetic programs, including the electromagnetic catapult and railguns. In the interview, he stated that the PLAN is fitting its newest nuclear attack submarines with a "shaftless" rim-driven pumpjet, a revolutionary and silent propulsion system.

TYPE 095 SSN


The Type 095 SSN, seen in this speculative fanmade CGI, will likely have VLS cells for launching a wide range of cruise missiles, pumpjet propulsion, and improved quieting technology. (This earlier CGI shows the Type 095 with a more conventional pumpjet, though.)

Medico-MAX

If the system is being put on the latest vessels, it is likely to be used on the first Type 095 nuclear attack submarine (SSN), which is under construction.

RIM DRIVEN THRUSTER


Shown here is a Schottel built rim-driven thruster, used to propel surface ships like yachts with minimal noise (the Chinese miltary rim-driven pumpjet would look similar but much larger).

Schottel

A rim-driven pumpjet has a ring-shaped electrical motor inside the pumpjet shroud, which turns the vane rotor (a vane rotor has the fan blades attached to a rotating band built on a cylinder interior, as opposed to a propeller shaft) inside the pumpjet cavity to create thrust. Previous submarine pumpjets are "shrouded propellers," which consist of a tubular nozzle covering the propeller. By removing the shaft of the propeller, the reduction in the number of moving parts decreases the noise made by the pumpjet, as well as saving hull space. Civilian manufacturers also claim that rim driven pumpjets are easier to maintain, and have less cavitation (bubbles that form during propeller movement), making them even more quiet.

IEPS

Rear Admiral Ma presents a component of the new Chinese IEPS for naval warships; the Chinese variant is the world's first IEPS to run on a medium-voltage, direct-current system.

CCTV 13

Also in the video background was a large piece of electrical machinery, which is part of the PLAN's Integrated Electrical Propulsion System (IEPS). IEPS turns all the output of the ship's engine into electricity, unlike traditional propulsion designs, which convert engine and reactor output into mechanical action to turn the propeller shaft.

The high electrical output can be used to power motors for the propellers or potentially high-energy weapons. Additionally, IEPS has far fewer moving parts, making them quieter, and thus ideal for use on submarines. When coupled with quieter reactors like the Type 095's reported natural circulation reactor, the rim-driven pumpjet and IEPS can drastically reduce the acoustic signature of any SSN.

This combination, if it works, would be a significant gain for China's naval power. As China has gained in surface fleet numbers, stealthy planes, and longer-ranged missiles able to target U.S. carriers and air bases, America's submarine force has become viewed as its key advantage in any comparison. In turn, Chinese nuclear submarines have lagged behind competitors in their noisiness. Said another way, these innovations have the potential to strengthen a historic weakness.

The reporting is significant for two more reasons. First, it illustrates the new openness in Chinese state media to discuss the technology behind previously secretive nuclear submarines, suggesting a greater confidence in showing off new military technology in order to impress domestic and foreign audiences.

Secondly, if the system works, the Chinese may have a march on the Americans and British, whose Columbia and Dreadnought nuclear ballistic missile submarine (SSBN) have the option for rim-drive pumpjets, but will not enter service until 2030. While the system would be on China's attack submarine, Chinese SSBNs could also use the rim-drive pumpjet to enhance their stealth and survivability—and, by extension, the credibility of China's second strike nuclear capability. These new submarine propulsion systems may not just power China's submarines of the future, but give Beijing a true superpower's underwater armada.

http://www.popsci.com/china-new-submarine-engine-revolutionize-underwater-warfare

 

[samsara]

China's new submarine engine is poised to revolutionize underwater warfare


It looks a lot like 'Red October' in real life.

By Jeffrey Lin and P.W. Singer June 2, 2017

RED OCTOBER SSBN

The Red October, a fictionalized version of the Akula (NATO reporting name Typhoon) submarine, has two pumpjets built into its rear for silent propulsion (though implausibly stated to use a noisy magnetohydrodynamic drive in the movie). According to Chinese state media, the nation's new nuclear submarines will soon use a similarly silent, cutting-edge pumpjet.

Paramount Pictures

In Tom Clancy's book (and, later, the 1990 film) The Hunt For Red October, a Soviet submarine debuts a revolutionary, ultra-quiet engine that uses pumpjets and electrical propulsion technology to elude its foes. Chinese state media has reported that the nation is fitting its newest nuclear sub with an engine that sounds a lot like Clancy's imaginings in the real world.

THE ADMIRAL AND THE PUMPJET

During his interview on state television, Admiral Ma Weiming, developer of the rim-driven pumpjet, shows off a laboratory, with a schematic of the pumpjet visible in the background, at right.

CCTV 13

This month, Chinese state TV channel CCTV 13 broadcast an interview with a top Chinese naval engineer, Rear Admiral Ma Weiming. The admiral is notably responsible for the development of multiple Chinese naval electromagnetic programs, including the electromagnetic catapult and railguns. In the interview, he stated that the PLAN is fitting its newest nuclear attack submarines with a "shaftless" rim-driven pumpjet, a revolutionary and silent propulsion system.

TYPE 095 SSN


The Type 095 SSN, seen in this speculative fanmade CGI, will likely have VLS cells for launching a wide range of cruise missiles, pumpjet propulsion, and improved quieting technology. (This earlier CGI shows the Type 095 with a more conventional pumpjet, though.)

Medico-MAX

If the system is being put on the latest vessels, it is likely to be used on the first Type 095 nuclear attack submarine (SSN), which is under construction.

RIM DRIVEN THRUSTER


Shown here is a Schottel built rim-driven thruster, used to propel surface ships like yachts with minimal noise (the Chinese miltary rim-driven pumpjet would look similar but much larger).

Schottel

A rim-driven pumpjet has a ring-shaped electrical motor inside the pumpjet shroud, which turns the vane rotor (a vane rotor has the fan blades attached to a rotating band built on a cylinder interior, as opposed to a propeller shaft) inside the pumpjet cavity to create thrust. Previous submarine pumpjets are "shrouded propellers," which consist of a tubular nozzle covering the propeller. By removing the shaft of the propeller, the reduction in the number of moving parts decreases the noise made by the pumpjet, as well as saving hull space. Civilian manufacturers also claim that rim driven pumpjets are easier to maintain, and have less cavitation (bubbles that form during propeller movement), making them even more quiet.

IEPS

Rear Admiral Ma presents a component of the new Chinese IEPS for naval warships; the Chinese variant is the world's first IEPS to run on a medium-voltage, direct-current system.

CCTV 13

Also in the video background was a large piece of electrical machinery, which is part of the PLAN's Integrated Electrical Propulsion System (IEPS). IEPS turns all the output of the ship's engine into electricity, unlike traditional propulsion designs, which convert engine and reactor output into mechanical action to turn the propeller shaft.

The high electrical output can be used to power motors for the propellers or potentially high-energy weapons. Additionally, IEPS has far fewer moving parts, making them quieter, and thus ideal for use on submarines. When coupled with quieter reactors like the Type 095's reported natural circulation reactor, the rim-driven pumpjet and IEPS can drastically reduce the acoustic signature of any SSN.

This combination, if it works, would be a significant gain for China's naval power. As China has gained in surface fleet numbers, stealthy planes, and longer-ranged missiles able to target U.S. carriers and air bases, America's submarine force has become viewed as its key advantage in any comparison. In turn, Chinese nuclear submarines have lagged behind competitors in their noisiness. Said another way, these innovations have the potential to strengthen a historic weakness.

The reporting is significant for two more reasons. First, it illustrates the new openness in Chinese state media to discuss the technology behind previously secretive nuclear submarines, suggesting a greater confidence in showing off new military technology in order to impress domestic and foreign audiences.

Secondly, if the system works, the Chinese may have a march on the Americans and British, whose Columbia and Dreadnought nuclear ballistic missile submarine (SSBN) have the option for rim-drive pumpjets, but will not enter service until 2030. While the system would be on China's attack submarine, Chinese SSBNs could also use the rim-drive pumpjet to enhance their stealth and survivability—and, by extension, the credibility of China's second strike nuclear capability. These new submarine propulsion systems may not just power China's submarines of the future, but give Beijing a true superpower's underwater armada.

http://www.popsci.com/china-new-submarine-engine-revolutionize-underwater-warfare

You just cannot hotlink those pictures from most of the web incl. the popsci, the pictures will have pretty short-lived moment like this one, you need to first upload those pics to some free image hosting then post the image link instead (of the direct hotlinking). Hope it helps for a neat posting.