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China's Resentment Problem

I don't think it's right for the Diplomat to blame the Chinese government for educating people about of our "Century of Humilation".

It's simply a historical fact. It happened, nobody can change that.

I went to an International School in HK before the handover, and I learned exactly the same thing from International text books. It's just established history, every history class across the world will know about it.

When your people have been suffering at the hands of foreign powers for over 200 years, yes there is bound to be some kind of resentment.

But I don't think Chinese people prioritize revenge, otherwise America and Japan would not be some of our largest trading partners.

what i see from my POV of China history, is it's more like Hate than Revenge.

i know you guys deserve an Apology, but repeating the same demand again and again isn't really good.

i have no idea whether the goverment is using the "past issue" to fuel more hatred towards them or not. but i still think that it's better you guys just Ignore it. i'm not saying you should forget about what they've done to you, nope. but let's just not mind the hatred, and carry on.

perhaps we're not suffering as much as you guys experienced. but even after 64 Years the Dutch gives their Official Apologize regarding the Rawagede Massacre in 1947 just in 2011. even so much time has passed, nobody is making big fuss over the issue.
 
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what i see from my POV of China history, is it's more like Hate than Revenge.

i know you guys deserve an Apology, but repeating the same demand again and again isn't really good.

i have no idea whether the goverment is using the "past issue" to fuel more hatred towards them or not. but i still think that it's better you guys just Ignore it. i'm not saying you should forget about what they've done to you, nope. but let's just not mind the hatred, and carry on.

perhaps we're not suffering as much as you guys experienced. but even after 64 Years the Dutch gives their Official Apologize regarding the Rawagede Massacre in 1947 just in 2011. even so much time has passed, nobody is making big fuss over the issue.

I think the difference is that the Dutch don't actively help, say, Australia in its diplomatic barbs with Indonesia. They didn't aid Malaysia in the 60s, or constantly condemn your domestic situations.

China has been very willing to forgive and forget. It's the Japanese right wing who need to constantly provoke not only China but Korea (both Republics and People's Republics) in order to achieve some other aim.
 
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what i see from my POV of China history, is it's more like Hate than Revenge.

i know you guys deserve an Apology, but repeating the same demand again and again isn't really good.

i have no idea whether the goverment is using the "past issue" to fuel more hatred towards them or not. but i still think that it's better you guys just Ignore it. i'm not saying you should forget about what they've done to you, nope. but let's just not mind the hatred, and carry on.

perhaps we're not suffering as much as you guys experienced. but even after 64 Years the Dutch gives their Official Apologize regarding the Rawagede Massacre in 1947 just in 2011. even so much time has passed, nobody is making big fuss over the issue.

Actually the apology doesn't even matter to me personally. The people who should apologize are long dead anyway.

What matters to me is that it never happens again. That's why China must become strong, enough so that no one will dare to try that again.

And so we can't forget. Because if we forget, we may allow ourselves to become weak again.

One of my friends in Hong Kong is half Japanese by the way (their father is Japanese and their mother is White British). Obviously I don't hate those people for something their ancestors did a long time ago.

I just want China to be safe. And thus we must become as strong as we can possibly be.
 
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Article makes a good point but it is rather biased.

It claims that China's history problem lies entirely at fault with the CCP, when there is in fact a mountain of other factors.

-US being soft on Japan due to the nature of the cold war.
-Statements and action from Japan's politicians.
-Culture of silence from Japan
-Unfinished peace treaty due to Chinese Civil War/ Cold War
-This most importantly affects the political status of Taiwan
-US and Soviet containment of China during cold war and it's effect in the current US policy of containment.

Of course the domestic politics of China plays a big role, but I believe China is not entirely wrong when it says they don't feel they are being treated fairly by US and Japan.
 
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I think the difference is that the Dutch don't actively help, say, Australia in its diplomatic barbs with Indonesia. They didn't aid Malaysia in the 60s, or constantly condemn your domestic situations.

China has been very willing to forgive and forget. It's the Japanese right wing who need to constantly provoke not only China but Korea (both Republics and People's Republics) in order to achieve some other aim.

actually the dutch were enraged since we took their colony (Mollucas) and West Papua from them. like @Chinese-Dragon says, we want our country to be safe. having a country build by your enemy next to you is a sign for future confrontation, hence we "annex" them. i can't say anything much about the dutch. we hardly ever had any notable relations with them. but, like any colonial countries before, most of their Natives still thinks that Indonesia still belongs to them. (you know, that kind of "Colonial Mentality")

Australia is.. well.. Unique. can't say much about since they seemed to Hate us, but also reliant on us at the same time.

i thought it was the South Korean who's actively badmouthing both China and Japan. everytime i'm on YT, there always Korean channels that discredting China and Japan together though. the Korean Keyboard Warriors are also... ughhh....
 
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actually the dutch were enraged since we took their colony (Mollucas) and West Papua from them. like @Chinese-Dragon says, we want our country to be safe. having a country build by your enemy next to you is a sign for future confrontation, hence we "annex" them. i can't say anything much about the dutch. we hardly ever had any notable relations with them. but, like any colonial countries before, most of their Natives still thinks that Indonesia still belongs to them. (you know, that kind of "Colonial Mentality")

Australia is.. well.. Unique. can't say much about since they seemed to Hate us, but also reliant on us at the same time.

i thought it was the South Korean who's actively badmouthing both China and Japan. everytime i'm on YT, there always Korean channels that discredting China and Japan together though. the Korean Keyboard Warriors are also... ughhh....

Also the Dutch are too small and far away to impact Indonesia. Imagine if Australia tried to take your territory and then used US military bases to put political pressure on Indonesia. Relations would probably not be very good. Many internet Koreans are trolls, but many are also likely to be Americans just using Korean screen names.
 
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Why so hostile, my handsome buddy ? Come on, why don't you just point out key points that the author of the article said --- and make a defense on your interjection.

lol, i want to actually discourse with you. :)

Don't you think it has something to do with China looking back at history and being upset about being "powerless" to stop multiple invaders, They had tiny Britain take Hong Kong, tiny Portugal taking Macau, and little Japan overrunning them. They ask themselves "why was this allowed to happen". Why did other countries move so far forward while they stayed put. Even the backwards American farmers (population ~2Million) back in 1776 kicked out the British. Why were they not able to do it too (1839 Opium War population 400M).

After WW2 they see Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan modernize almost instantly. They stay put again and are looked at as a poor 3rd world country. Only at the turn of the 21st century do they see the same results.

So I'm sure everybody in China looks around at how things have changed and wonder why it took so long.
 
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Also the Dutch are too small and far away to impact Indonesia. Imagine if Australia tried to take your territory and then used US military bases to put political pressure on Indonesia. Relations would probably not be very good. Many internet Koreans are trolls, but many are also likely to be Americans just using Korean screen names.

back then the Dutch were able to go to here thanks to the British and it's colony nearby. now since Dutch is weaker and we are stacking our weaponries too, they have no chance.

yes, but only if USA wants to. it won't be AUS decision to to attack us but their boss. we are aware of their doings like wiretapping our President and all. but that's just the common action of any bad AUS Prime Ministers. they need Indonesia as buffer zone against forces that comes from the front. had they tried to take our land, it won't be beautiful. we can just let the Rohingya refugees into their land, or even worse we can introduce "Syiah" to them as well :D if China wants, China can Annex them. we'll give you guys the smooth waterways to reach them, no problem.

actually that's quite the opposite. it's Korean using American/European screen names. not because there's none of the american troll, nope, but because they're not too bothered with stuff that isn't murican's
 
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yes, but only if USA wants to. it won't be AUS decision to to attack us but their boss. we are aware of their doings like wiretapping our President and all. but that's just the common action of any bad AUS Prime Ministers. they need Indonesia as buffer zone against forces that comes from the front. had they tried to take our land, it won't be beautiful. we can just let the Rohingya refugees into their land, or even worse we can introduce "Syiah" to them as well :D if China wants, China can Annex them. we'll give you guys the smooth waterways to reach them, no problem.

Why do you think Australia wants to invade you? I find it very hard to picture the average Australian soldier wanting to island hop around Indonesia. What purpose would it serve?

actually that's quite the opposite. it's Korean using American/European screen names. not because there's none of the american troll, nope, but because they're not too bothered with stuff that isn't murican's

You are 100% correct. That's like me blaming Indonesia for trolling the Venezuelans on some Brazilian forum.
The likelyhood is close to nil.
 
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Why do you think Australia wants to invade you? I find it very hard to picture the average Australian soldier wanting to island hop around Indonesia. What purpose would it serve?.

i have zero idea about them either. even if they attack us, i don't know what would they get either. they doesn't seems to like us for any of their reasons. it could be connected to the past that we were a Communist Country or our annexation of East Timor and West Papua. but even then, i still dunno what are their worries.

i googled things about them, and here some noticable results.

drug lords gets death penalty in Indonesia. yet they want us not to follow our rules.

Bali Nine executions: Murder must carry a cost

they even call us "Gook" in this Article. do they even know what Gook means?

Sign the Petition Demanding That Australia Wage War on Indonesia | Daily Stormer

Spying on the President

Australia spied on Indonesian president Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, leaked Edward Snowden documents reveal - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

et cetera. i could get some other results, but time's a bit short here though.


wow that's a Wall of Text right there..

i can't finish reading the article. but if it has something to do with using game as Espionage tool, that's pretty fucked up.
 
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Don't you think it has something to do with China looking back at history and being upset about being "powerless" to stop multiple invaders, They had tiny Britain take Hong Kong, tiny Portugal taking Macau, and little Japan overrunning them. They ask themselves "why was this allowed to happen". Why did other countries move so far forward while they stayed put. Even the backwards American farmers (population ~2Million) back in 1776 kicked out the British. Why were they not able to do it too (1839 Opium War population 400M).

After WW2 they see Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan modernize almost instantly. They stay put again and are looked at as a poor 3rd world country. Only at the turn of the 21st century do they see the same results.

So I'm sure everybody in China looks around at how things have changed and wonder why it took so long.

is this what the typical white male who marries a Chinese woman think?
 
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When China’s leaders look at the outside world, what do they feel? Admiration? Love? Envy? Perhaps even pity or arrogance? From time to time, Chinese leaders sound like they shared all of these different attitudes. Even something as seemingly insignificant as Premier Li Keqiang going out of his way to praise any non-Chinese looking journalist who asked a question in Mandarin at his annual press conference in mid-March betrays something of what key Chinese think of the world around them. It’s a mixture of confidence verging on arrogance about China and its unique cultural, social, and historic attributes, often tinged with brittleness and shades of vulnerability, with flattery deployed to cover this over.

In The Improbable War, a stimulating and short book published recently, London School of Economics professor of international relations Christopher Coker hones in on one emotion in particular that he finds characterizes the current mood of China’s geopolitical self-image and the ways it ‘feels’ toward the outside world. This mood can be summarized as a constellation of feelings clustered around resentment.

Zheng Wang in his excellent Never Forget National Humiliation wrote in some detail about the “inner lives” of Chinese people. The historic narratives promoted by China’s government support the idea of victimhood, of the Chinese people finally emerging from a long period as colonially repressed and bullied subjects. This feeling of being put upon is the passive side of the coin. The active side, resentment, comes when people start considering actions like revenge — getting even or rectifying history’s injustices.

Coker divines in China a strong element of self-pity giving rise to more revengeful attitudes. He writes, “The problem with the Chinese Communist Party’s rendering of the past is that it encourages the Chinese people to remain frozen in a time of humiliation.” That is a highly negative frame of mind to be stuck in, and it drives some of the seemingly irrational ways in which China lashes out at the world around it.

This year, as both Li and Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi made clear last week, will see the 70th anniversary of the ending of the Pacific War. China was an ally of Europe and the U.S. in that war and played a major part, something which is often forgotten today, The real problem for this commemoration, however, is that it involves a relationship that enflames China’s strongest resentment – ties with Japan. Asked if Japan would be involved in the events planned in Beijing later this year, Wang, himself a Japan specialist, was evasive. An uncharitable interpretation of his tone would have said it was unwelcoming.

Visionary leaders might understand, as Coker’s comment implies, that while resentment after such a history is understandable, if it carries on too long it can become a debilitating and limiting frame of mind. Chinese leaders might decide that their journey to great nation status entails embracing more positive emotions. The U.S. can be the model here. Its national mood can be characterized in many ways, but resentment would not be one of them. For China, the 70th anniversary might be a moment to forgive some of the past, but not forget it — whatever the attitude of Japan. Forgiveness, after all, can be primarily for the benefit of the forgiver, rather than the one being forgiven.

Part of Xi’s “China dream” should involve moving away from resentfulness and embracing a more generous feeling toward the outside world. But there are few reasons to be optimistic at the moment that an emotional reset is remotely on the cards. Far from being an affirmation of reconciliation and new beginnings, it looks like the 70th anniversary is going to settle into the template created some decades ago – China keen to remind Japan in particular of its history of victimhood, and Japan accusing China of exploiting past pain for current gain.

The net result of this is that the rest of the world, while respectful of what is being commemorated, will want to keep their distance because of current politics. That will keep much of the world from joining in and both remembering and reflecting on a terrible war, but a war that has long ended. And that would be a pity, in view of the enormous contribution of China to the war effort, but is understandable in view of Beijing’s current resentful mood.



Reference: The Diplomat

@Nihonjin1051 , from a Vietnamese perspective, this article would be considered very accurate. It aligns with how most Vietnamese would view our neighbouring country China.

Our ancestor had an old saying about the people of China that elucidates this view: “Thâm như Tàu”

Google translate doesn’t do a good job on this one. “Thâm” means a deeply embedded feeling of resentment, hate and grudge which lingers inside a person for longer than what we would consider to be normal. Furthermore,
“Thâm” motivates revenge-seeking. Tàu is just an old slang for people from China, so the expression basically means “Thâm like the Chinese”.

I believe you might be interested in hearing the Vietnamese perspective (which is similar to what that “western” author have expressed). I am not arguing that our Vietnamese view is right, but it is how most of us view our neighbour and has been epitomized by that old saying passed down from our forefathers.

If you can ask @xesy or other Viet members to explain more about this saying, I think you would find it interesting. After all, Vietnam is a neighbour of China with people interacting for centuries so we probably know a thing or two about our Chinese neighbour.
 
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@Nihonjin1051 , from a Vietnamese perspective, this article would be considered very accurate. It aligns with how most Vietnamese would view our neighbouring country China.

Our ancestor had an old saying about the people of China that elucidates this view: “Thâm như Tàu”

Google translate doesn’t do a good job on this one. “Thâm” means a deeply embedded feeling of resentment, hate and grudge which lingers inside a person for longer than what we would consider to be normal. Furthermore,
“Thâm” motivates revenge-seeking. Tàu is just an old slang for people from China, so the expression basically means “Thâm like the Chinese”.

I believe you might be interested in hearing the Vietnamese perspective (which is similar to what that “western” author have expressed). I am not arguing that our Vietnamese view is right, but it is how most of us view our neighbour and has been epitomized by that old saying passed down from our forefathers.

If you can ask @xesy or other Viet members to explain more about this saying, I think you would find it interesting. After all, Vietnam is a neighbour of China with people interacting for centuries so we probably know a thing or two about our Chinese neighbour.


Forgiveness can be defined as the ‘forswearing of negative affect and judgment by viewing the wrongdoer with compassion and love, in the face of a wrongdoer’s considerable injustice”. Forgivingness is defined as “the disposition to abort one’s anger at persons one takes to have wronged one culpably, by seeing them in the benevolent terms provided by reasons characteristic of forgiving.

Thus forgiveness must be carefully distinguished from forgivingness. Forgivingness is an overall disposition to forgive, a disposition that manifests itself in most circumstances in life. Forgiveness , by contrast, only applies to particular circumstnaces (eg, a particular offense).

Paz, Neto and Mullet (2008) conducted a study that compared Chinese and Western European participants’ willingness to forgive and the researchers hypothesized that willingness to forgive would be more prevalent in Chinese (collectivistic) culture than in the Western European (individualistic) culture. However, this hypothesis, as the researchers noted, was not supported by the data. Between the two samples, the overall level of dispositional forgiveness was similar and, interestingly, acquiescence effects were present. Results showed that Chinese were substantially more unforgiving than the Western European samples.

The researchers also noted in their comparison of lasting resentment among Chinese and Western European participants and they hypothesized that lasting resentment would be lower among the Chinese participants than among the Western European participants. Paz et al (2008) then noted in data analysis that this hypothesis was yet again unsupported. Lasting resentment was higher among the Chinese than among the Western Europeans.

So, my friend @Yorozuya , I believe that the results of this study gives an understanding for us in the Chinese political dialectic , and your socio-cultural input also complements the data by Paz et al (2008). In fact, it enables us to appreciate the quantitative data even more.



Regards,
@Nihonjin1051




Reference:

Paz, R., Neto, F., & Mullet, E. (2008). Forgiveness: A China-Western Europe Comparison. Journal Of Psychology, 142(2), 147-158.

My Meta-analysis on China's Socio-Cultural Dialectics, Pertaining to National Tragedies, Historical and Political

The Chinese people , as a collectivist society, retain a much longer ideation of injustice, historical, political. The fact that the Chinese is a collectivistic society means that the people have, too, a collective memory, which enables retention of memories that may have happened over decades, centuries ago.

The Japanese invasion of China is a recent occurrence, when compared o the age of China as a nation state, one that has existed for over 5 millennia. If the Chinese people still remember the wanton destruction of the Mongols who came to rule China for some 90 years in the 13th century, then I believe that the Chinese will still remember the Japanese invasion of China for generations to come. What is the half life? Half a millennia , at least.

This is the reality. This will drive politics for years, decades, even centuries to come.
 
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