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China’s regular army before the fall of the Qing Empire in the 1900s

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China’s regular army before the fall of the Qing Empire in the 1900s
2018-10-24 06:31:00
https://www.toutiao.com/a6615105621186314765/
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After the Sino-Japanese War, Yuan Shikai, the foreign minister of Beiyang, set up a "new army" in North China. Zhang Jiangdong, the governor of the two rivers, set up a "self-strengthening army" in the south. This Western-style force proved to be very useful. In 1904, the Qing government announced plans to establish a standing army of 36 towns.
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These troops maintain law and order in peacetime and serve as auxiliary forces in wartime. At the same time, the government canceled the old-style military martial arts, and established military preparation schools in the provinces to train new-style officers.

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After the operation of the Gengzi, the naval bases were successively lost, and the Qing Empire had no sea defense. In 1909, the Navy was established, and the remaining naval battleships were reorganized into two cruisers and the Yangtze River. In 1910, the Navy was reorganized as the Admiralty to try to revive the Navy.
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In the staff mechanism, the Military Advisory Office was established in 1907 under the Ministry of the Army. In order to separate military management and command, it was decided in 1911 to upgrade it to a military advisory office independent of the Army. However, the Qing Empire did not have time to see the effects of these reforms and it was dead.

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According to the Qing dynasty, the military is divided into eleven categories according to the specialties; the military ranks the most in the third and eighth grades, and the minimum is only one and two. In the 21st year of Guangxu, the military titles were the same as those of the same level. They only had the same name before the title of the military officer, such as "the same vice president" and "Tongzheng Military Academy".
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In the first year of Xuantong, because the official name was crowned with the same word, and the boundary was unclear, it was changed to a professional name before the title, such as "Military Deputy General" and "Ma Medical is involved". The Qing government began to stipulate the collocation of the position and title. The requirements are very strict, and it is called “competition with the official.
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Revised in two year of Xuantong. Under normal circumstances, it is necessary to "recognize the equivalent of an official." However, "there is no suitable candidate for the military service, and the deputy is more than the military rank, or less than the military." The official level of the ranks can also be used as a charge. However, regardless of size, the rate of difference is limited to one level and must not be exceeded."
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After the establishment of the new army, while updating training methods, weapons and equipment, it also improved the military uniform. The training department officially drafted a dress, a uniform, an epaulette, and a cap badge. At this point, the traditional Chinese military uniform-style garment that has been used for hundreds of years officially withdrew from the historical stage.
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On the eve of the demise of the Qing Empire, the army could be claimed to be 1 million, but there were only about 600,000 combatants, of which only 175,000 were modernized regular troops. [Chinese New Army in the late Qing Dynasty, 1900s. Photography: Stafford Francis]


PS:China in 1949
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PLA entered Shanghai and slept on the streets to avoid harassing Shanghai local people in 1949
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PLA in 2018
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Qing Dynasty military reform was too late 100 years.

If they did, today we are still under the Qing rule.

They fear of Han Chinese gunpowder, that was the reason why they fall. They hoped to keep to depend on Manchu army, so the local couldn't establish strong army to challenge them. But the world was already different.
 
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Qing and PlA have same problem.to join the army to get good salary, u have to bribe the corrupted officers :laugh:

In China, Joining the Army Will Cost You
Candidates often pay military recruiters for coveted spots
By
Ting Shi
July 18, 2014, 8:36 AM GMT+7
1000x-1.jpg

Training in Jiaxing Photograph by Reuters
To enlist in the People’s Liberation Army (PLA), potential recruits have to take tests. To make sure their sons and daughters pass, families pay up. At one recruitment office in the eastern Chinese province of Jiangxi, this year’s going rate, depending on your guanxi, or connections, is as much as 99,000 yuan ($16,000), says Wang, a recruitment officer in the province who asked that his full name not be used because he isn’t authorized to speak publicly. Limited openings, plus a high failure rate on the fitness exam, push parents to buy spots for their children during the annual enlistment drive that runs through September. Success offers a stable job and, for some, an escape from rural poverty.

The price varies, Wang says. His old army friends “asked me what the current price tag is, and I said ‘around 80,000 to 90,000 yuan for you guys.’ If your guanxi was really strong, it’d cost you around 50,000 to 60,000 yuan; if it was just so-so, you would have to spend 100,000 yuan at least.”

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...pplicants-pay-recruiters-to-get-limited-slots
 
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Qing Dynasty military reform was too late 100 years.

If they did, today we are still under the Qing rule.

They fear of Han Chinese gunpowder, that was the reason why they fall. They hoped to keep to depend on Manchu army, so the local couldn't establish strong army to challenge them. But the world was already different.
Too late and not enough!
Can you believe it that the Qing army soldiers also need to kneel down to the emperors and princes and other members of the Qing Dynasty royal family!
Unreasonable!

Qing and PlA have same problem.to join the army to get good salary, u have to bribe the corrupted officers :laugh:

In China, Joining the Army Will Cost You
Candidates often pay military recruiters for coveted spots
By
Ting Shi
July 18, 2014, 8:36 AM GMT+7
1000x-1.jpg

Training in Jiaxing Photograph by Reuters
To enlist in the People’s Liberation Army (PLA), potential recruits have to take tests. To make sure their sons and daughters pass, families pay up. At one recruitment office in the eastern Chinese province of Jiangxi, this year’s going rate, depending on your guanxi, or connections, is as much as 99,000 yuan ($16,000), says Wang, a recruitment officer in the province who asked that his full name not be used because he isn’t authorized to speak publicly. Limited openings, plus a high failure rate on the fitness exam, push parents to buy spots for their children during the annual enlistment drive that runs through September. Success offers a stable job and, for some, an escape from rural poverty.

The price varies, Wang says. His old army friends “asked me what the current price tag is, and I said ‘around 80,000 to 90,000 yuan for you guys.’ If your guanxi was really strong, it’d cost you around 50,000 to 60,000 yuan; if it was just so-so, you would have to spend 100,000 yuan at least.”

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...pplicants-pay-recruiters-to-get-limited-slots
You mean prob like this:
South China Sea Conflit

Date 14 March 1988
Chigua Reef
Territorial changes:
Chinese retook Chigua Reef
Belligerents
23px-Flag_of_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China.svg.png
China
23px-Flag_of_Vietnam.svg.png
Vietnam

Casualties and losses
China 0 killed =VS= Vietnam 64 killed
China 1 wounded =VS= Vietnam 11 wounded
China 0 captured =VS= Vietnam 9 captured
China 0 armed transporters sunk =VS= Vietnam 2 armed transporters sunk
China 0 landing craft destroyed =VS= Vietnam 1 landing craft destroyed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Chinese_domination_of_Vietnam

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chinese_domination_of_Vietnam

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Chinese_domination_of_Vietnam

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Chinese_domination_of_Vietnam

However, from the bottom of my heart, I do not want war between China and Vietnam or any other countries. The enemy of Asians is Americans and Europeans and their slave countries.
 
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Qing Dynasty military reform was too late 100 years.

If they did, today we are still under the Qing rule.

They fear of Han Chinese gunpowder, that was the reason why they fall. They hoped to keep to depend on Manchu army, so the local couldn't establish strong army to challenge them. But the world was already different.
I don't think so. They do fear the han rebel against them. That is why they abandon Manchu language and culture to make them more Chinese.
 
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The British returned Hong Kong to China because China is stronger than Britain. The British defeated Argentina and crossed 10,000 kilometers to the southern hemisphere because Argentina is weak. In fact, we all know that the Falkland Islands belong to Argentina, but because Argentina is a weak country. So Argentina has no choice.The British are the most realistic people.

I don't think so. They do fear the han rebel against them. That is why they abandon Manchu language and culture to make them more Chinese.
The Manchus are also Chinese. "The Manchus are not Chinese" is an excuse for the Japanese to make aggression against China.
The Manchus are not Chinese, so the Manchus are Russians?
Give us a break.

All other ethnic minorities in China who took the territory of the Chinese Han people finally had to accept Chinese culture.
Kublai Khan, the heir to the Mongol Empire, also considered himself a descendant of the Chinese nation.
https://timgsa.baidu.com/timg?image&quality=80&size=b9999_10000&sec=1547451072382&di=bee739e908b227c964c6fe9efaf97ec6&imgtype=0&src=http://m.iphotoscrap.com/Image/213/1225177151.jpg
timg
 
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You mean prob like this:
South China Sea Conflit

Date 14 March 1988
Chigua Reef
Territorial changes:
Chinese retook Chigua Reef
Belligerents
23px-Flag_of_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China.svg.png
China
23px-Flag_of_Vietnam.svg.png
Vietnam

Casualties and losses
China 0 killed =VS= Vietnam 64 killed
China 1 wounded =VS= Vietnam 11 wounded
China 0 captured =VS= Vietnam 9 captured
China 0 armed transporters sunk =VS= Vietnam 2 armed transporters sunk
China 0 landing craft destroyed =VS= Vietnam 1 landing craft destroyed


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Chinese_domination_of_Vietnam

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chinese_domination_of_Vietnam

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Chinese_domination_of_Vietnam

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Chinese_domination_of_Vietnam

However, from the bottom of my heart, I do not want war between China and Vietnam or any other countries. The enemy of Asians is Americans and Europeans and their slave countries.
Ha ha.how abt 2014 conflict ???

Of course we dont want war wt anyone. CN always attack VN first and its CN who begged for JP- EU-US's support to attack VN since 1978.

Btw, without US-EU support like in 1979, your PLA is just useless and corrupted like Qing army. PLA generals only know Human wave tactic and it no longer work. PLA soldiers bribe money to join the army for good jobs not for dying like pigs in Human wave attack like in 1979, bro.
 
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Don't you think even a goverment not ruled by manchus also fear rebelion?
I don't think so. They do fear the han rebel against them. That is why they abandon Manchu language and culture to make them more Chinese.
 
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Don't you think even a goverment not ruled by manchus also fear rebelion?
That is a different thing. Yuan dynasty is short lived becos they refuse to assmiliate into the majority Han. While Qing despite not being Han is able to rule China for 200plus years becos they make them more Chinese and assimilate into Hans culture and language. The Hans has less reason to rebel. The Qing only crumble when they decay and not able to protect China from foreign invasion.
 
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Qing Dynasty military reform was too late 100 years.

If they did, today we are still under the Qing rule.

They fear of Han Chinese gunpowder, that was the reason why they fall. They hoped to keep to depend on Manchu army, so the local couldn't establish strong army to challenge them. But the world was already different.
Also, the ruling class of Qing lacked the will to fight against the foreign powers to the death, where everytime they were losing, they signed the unequal treaties asap. They were more worried about Han rebellion than the lands they seized to the western powers. To be honest, the millitary might beweteen Qing dynasty and Empire of Japan in 1895 was much smaller than the Nationalsit China with Imperial Japan in 1937, which the Nationalist China could fight Japan for 8 bloody years while the Qing could not.

The Manchus are also Chinese. "The Manchus are not Chinese" is an excuse for the Japanese to make aggression against China.
I think the Manchus at that time believed more they were the master and Han Chinese were the slave, according to the quto from Empress cixi. The Chinese concept is after the fall of Qing that make us unitied to fight against foreign powers.

The British returned Hong Kong to China because China is stronger than Britain.
The British once thought about a war with China, but they were no way to defend HK. So they gave up and tried the administrative right for exchanged sovereignty BS.
 
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That is a different thing. Yuan dynasty is short lived becos they refuse to assmiliate into the majority Han. While Qing despite not being Han is able to rule China for 200plus years becos they make them more Chinese and assimilate into Hans culture and language. The Hans has less reason to rebel. The Qing only crumble when they decay and not able to protect China from foreign invasion.
The emperors of the Qing Empire were still good emperors. The Cixi emperor/ress was synonymous with the incompetent and corrupt government of the late Qing Dynasty.
 
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The emperors of the Qing Empire were still good emperors. The Cixi emperor/ress was synonymous with the incompetent and corrupt government of the late Qing Dynasty.
All the early emperor of Qing dynasty is tutor by Hans teacher. It is subsequent become a must for all Qing emperor. The early emperor of Qing are indeed wise and understanding emperor. In fact, better than Ming emperor. Chongzhen is a big idiot who cant differential good and evil officials. He killed Yuan Chonghuan who defeated nureharci. He raise taxes and causes many civilian hardship who rebel and join li zicheng rebellion group. Many wise Hans officer joins Qing not becos they are a traitor for Ming but becos they see hope in Qing for all Chinese.

Qing dynasty is not as bad many current chinese portray. Manchu are very pragmatic people who are willing to put down pride and do things that is right. The early emperor of Qing are willing to accept changes that best suit for the situation.
 
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Don't you think even a goverment not ruled by manchus also fear rebelion?
Under the rule of the feudal dynasty, the whole country was considered to belong to the emperor's family, so no matter which internal branch nation must obey the emperor's family.
The Qing Empire failed because the Emperor/Queen of the Qing Empire regarded the Qing Empire as a family of Aisin Gioro.

Throughout China's history, 1) each empire relies on military means to maintain national unity, and 2) each empire maintains long-term domination by economic development and the people's livelihood.
The two most important points of Confucius's Confucian doctrine are "benevolence仁" and "examination selection officials考试"。
 
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Qing Dynasty military reform was too late 100 years.

If they did, today we are still under the Qing rule.

They fear of Han Chinese gunpowder, that was the reason why they fall. They hoped to keep to depend on Manchu army, so the local couldn't establish strong army to challenge them. But the world was already different.

Actually, the earlier Qing Dynasty had very strong artillery force.

The red barbarian cannon (红蛮大炮/红衣大炮)was among best cannon in the 17th century.

Kangxi Emperor always held a very high regard to the importance the artillery force, but his grandson Qianlong was the culprit that making the Qing Dynasty militarily much weaker than the contemporary European powers.

Check this South Korean movie. And Ironically it was some rare South Korean movies that make historical accuracy. And you can see how powerful was the red barbarian cannon possessed by the eight banner army in the mid 17th century.

 
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Qing Dynasty military reform was too late 100 years.

If they did, today we are still under the Qing rule.

They fear of Han Chinese gunpowder, that was the reason why they fall. They hoped to keep to depend on Manchu army, so the local couldn't establish strong army to challenge them. But the world was already different.
In the end the Manchus were absorbed into the Han race.
 
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