What's new

China’s Population Dooms the Transition to Consumer Economy

50 millions lower class
Was it always 50 million?

350 million lower class
Will it always remain 350 million? Or is it dynamnic and changing every decade?

where on earth you can have a country
No one country. But let's have quick look at developing countries like China was few decades back right at it's doorstep.

Indonesia - 250 million?
Pakistan - 195 million?
India 1,250 million?
Bangladesh? 170 million?
Philipines 75 million?
and Myanmar plus others

Beyond we have Africa and Chinese big move into the continent to secure resources.

* The middle class in all developing countries are growing in size. They do not remain constant.
 
.
Was it always 50 million?

Well, it's a standard deviation model, but usually more........because you also increase the poverty line with more wealth.

Will it always remain 350 million? Or is it dynamnic and changing every decade?

No, because the definition of poverty would change when the wealth of average Chinese increase, it would make almost constant.

By the time average Chinese earn 24,000 a year, the poverty line would increase to a level to reflect the actual situation. When that country became developed, the poverty line, along with the number of people in it will largely remain unchanged.

That is why while Chinese poverty line is set on $200 a month, the US is on a different line about USD24,180 a year

No one country. But let's have quick look at developing countries like China was few decades back right at it's doorstep.

Indonesia - 250 million?
Pakistan - 195 million?
India 1,250 million?
Bangladesh? 170 million?
Philipines 75 million?
and Myanmar plus others

Beyond we have Africa and Chinese big move into the continent to secure resources.

lol......just because Indonesia have 250 million population, that does not mean the actual work force is 250 millions.......

But since China have 1.3 billions of people all 1.3 billions people have to buy more than 1 item at some point any day........

Again, if you put India out of this equation, you will find Chinese's population is roughly the grand total of all the population combine (The entire Africa continent only have 1 billion people)......you won't have enough workforce to serve such a big market.

* The middle class in all developing countries are growing in size. They do not remain constant.

middle class won't growth once China become developed, because the definition of middle class would change upon time. And we are talking about when China become developed in the future, not now.
 
Last edited:
.
http://wolfstreet.com/2016/05/07/china-population-decline-dooms-transition-to-consumer-economy/

And yet, China’s total debt goes parabolic.


If a business could foresee that it would have a declining consumer base (declining number of total potential customers), that would likely be a pretty good reason for serious concern and significantly lower growth expectations. However, when it comes to China, the shrinkage of its under 65yr/old population and particularly of the 20-59yr/old population is somehow coinciding with the story of China transitioning from an export-based to a domestic consumption-based economy?

To wit, with a declining population, China will transition from exporter to consumer, while all those grown one-child-policy adults support their 65+ year-old parents, and still grow 6%-7% annually? Inquiring minds wonder how it’s possible a declining base of consumers would consume more.

In a word…CREDIT! And, the growth of credit in China has gone parabolic. It’s highly unsustainable and likely ruinous.

The Details:
Each bar in the chart below represents annual growth or decline of the Chinese adult population. The blue line is a 4 period moving average of the population change. From 1973 through 2008, an additional 12.5 million Chinese adults entered the Chinese economy every year. That meant 12.5 million more consumers, home buyers, car buyers, potential job seekers, etc.

But since 2008, annual population growth has decelerated by 95%. By 2017 or 2018, it will begin a long decline. Every year from 2018, the adult 20-59 year-old population of China will decline by millions for at least two decades and likely far longer. This is no forecast or “gloom-n-doom” fantasy, but simply counting the number of people born and tracking them through the population (plus, China has net emigration).

All this means the charts below likely show a best case scenario although the population data could be lower if greater emigration occurs or a higher mortality rate ensues due to illness, environmental, or global disturbances (aka, war).

2016-05-03-Hamilton-China-population-20-59yr-old.png


The People’s Bank of China has been pushing rates down since the Chinese population growth peaked and began decelerating (just like the majority of the developed nations central banks).




In China, the adult consumer population growth peaked in 1989 and rates peaked in the early ’90’s and have been declining since (chart below) to incent a slowing rate of population growth to consume more — and consumer above the level wages and savings could support.

2016-05-03-Hamilton-China-PBOC-discount-rate.png


And the impact of the lower interest rates above combined with China’s capability to push loans out has had an amazing impact on credit creation! The hockey stick chart below of total Chinese credit creation is a monument to the mantra, “build it and they will come.”

2016-05-03-Hamilton-China-total-debt.png


The problem is the Chinese have used the lower rates and massive credit bubble (aka, debt) to build out infrastructure, apartments, factories, shopping malls, etc., for a population base that is never coming!

Credit has been used to build millions of generally unaffordable apartments for a middle class and overall population that has already peaked and is fast receding. Building out somewhere from 50 to 100 million excess apartments and likely trillions of excess retail square footage for a population of under 65-year-olds in fast decline is the insanity only award-winning PhD economists could applaud.

The chart below puts all the pieces together so the inter-relationship can be clearly understood. Population growth slows and credit is made cheaper to incent a level of growth via debt beyond the populations general capability. As the population growth slows more dramatically, rates must be lowered in kind and debt ramped up to maintain “growth.”

What happens next as the adult consumer depopulation begins (simple fact…not forecast) should be obvious: NIRP, QE, and all the kings horses, and all the kings men will try to put Humpty Dumpty back together.

2016-05-03-Hamilton-China-population-debt-discount-rate.png


Beginning in 2018 and accelerating thereafter, there will be millions fewer adult consumers in China every year. On the flip side, the needy 65+ year-old population will swell until China’s total population peaks around 2030 and begins its Japanese style long-term depopulation. All this while interest rate policy plus debt creation are both already effectively exhausted.

There simply is nothing more to build when there is already such overcapacity and growth in non-performing loans. The Chinese determination to add new credit fuel in excess of $1 trillion alone in the first quarter of 2016 is the stuff of hyper-monetization — with money fleeing China and creating bubbles the world over — and potential hyperinflation. Sometimes reality bites…but pretending all is well is simply no longer a viable option. By Chris Hamilton, Hambone’s Stuff


Can you provide a credible source for any of the data that you've shared here?
 
.
Oh thanks now I see. Well I don't buy into this rubbish. The fundamentals of USA are great. The human capital, natural resources, the open society and it's well developed linkages across the world place America in a unique and secure position. USA is not about to slide. If anything it will rise even higher.

However the change will be that it's relative position will slide second to China over the next two to three decades. There is nothing wrong with that. It is entirely natural process much like the bigger US overtook Great Britain in early 1900s and then consummated that lead by 1945.

Did that mean Britain collapsed or become poor. No of course. UK today is far more prosperous then it ever was in it's so called "rule the waves" period. What happened was US overtook GB. That is about to happen to USA now. It is simply about size.

The clear difference here is British power was depleted by WW2, and they had to rely on the US as an ally, which hastened the transition as the UK transferred critical technologies and basing rights to certain overseas holdings.The US actually overtook the UK economically in 1890-1900 range. That's not 20-30 years, that's 40-50 years, and with a major war causing untold damage to the UK on its doorstep to help it. Without that war, how long would it have taken?

So far no similar conditions are on the horizon for a world war that would involve the US but not China. In that respect, using the US UK transition is not a good example imo. A better one is UK vs Germany feel.

The overarching conclusion though is that we likely won't see China replace the US as the foremost geopolitical power in our lifetimes.
 
Last edited:
.
Back
Top Bottom