China’s new world order is taking shape with Xi Jinping

[OIO]

You forgot your medication today


Yes Western Europe will never be on china’s side but as long as they largely stay out of the fray, it’s a win for China.

Also current interests are far more important than history. Russia was also a past aggressor but now it’s an ally of China. France and Germany are no longer imperialist powers in china’s periphery, so there really is no conflict of interest. The US is constantly interfering with china’s issues of sovereignty and actively engaging in containing China and that’s why China is leading the global shift in power away from the US.

Europe needs more pain to wake up.

 

[etylo]

If you don't understand Chinese history, please don't talk nonsense at will.

China's century long humiliation has little to do with Germany, and its relationship with France is also at a relatively low level.

The top country on the list of Chinese people's century long humiliation is the United Kingdom. Next are Japan and Russia. France's position is already very backward, it only caused China to lose Vietnam, but in the end, the French also left Vietnam.

As for Germans, we are even grateful to Germany. Because it was Germany's military assistance that allowed us to resist the Japanese attack in the early stages of the China Japanese War. At that time, the main force of China was the new military that the Germans helped us train, and the USA was still selling military materials to Japan.

国军德械师 - 维基百科，自由的百科全书

zh.m.wikipedia.org

View attachment 924153View attachment 924154View attachment 924155

No, Chinese are not grateful to the imperil colonists Germans for invading and colonizing Chinese lands, committing crimes on Chinese.

 

[MH.Yang]

No, Chinese are not grateful to the imperil colonists Germans for invading and colonizing Chinese lands, committing crimes on Chinese.

If you mean that Germany once occupied Qingdao for 17 years, then it is indeed so. But there were no malignant incidents in Qingdao occupied by the Germans, and Qingdao returned it to us in a short period of time. The Germans have also developed Qingdao very well. As for the military assistance provided by Germany to us, it did indeed play an important role in the early stages of the China Japanese War. Unfortunately, the new army trained by German officers only has 30 divisions, which is too few.

 

[etylo]

If you mean that Germany once occupied Qingdao for 17 years, then it is indeed so. But there were no malignant incidents in Qingdao occupied by the Germans, and Qingdao returned it to us in a short period of time. The Germans have also developed Qingdao very well. As for the military assistance provided by Germany to us, it did indeed play an important role in the early stages of the China Japanese War. Unfortunately, the new army trained by German officers only has 30 divisions, which is too few.

Germany was one of the leading nations of the group of 8 that sacked Beijing and plundered China for astronomical sum of money in 1900. Of course, the damage done to China by Germany is no way comparable to that of Japan and Britain.

 

[Leishangthem]

If you mean that Germany once occupied Qingdao for 17 years, then it is indeed so. But there were no malignant incidents in Qingdao occupied by the Germans, and Qingdao returned it to us in a short period of time. The Germans have also developed Qingdao very well. As for the military assistance provided by Germany to us, it did indeed play an important role in the early stages of the China Japanese War. Unfortunately, the new army trained by German officers only has 30 divisions, which is too few.

you sound like japanese nationalist that claim koreans should be grateful for japanese colonization.

US was the 2nd biggest player in opium war profiteering,US sold weapons to JApan for its war against china where japan took taiwan as
gain from the victory.
US is the sole reason for continued chinese civil war,and economical blowbacks and global smear of its image.
US is the sole reason for western hegemony in asia ,that''s why asia needs freedom from US and anybody appeasing the US is anti asia ,american boot licking scum .

 

[MH.Yang]

Germany was one of the leading nations of the group of 8 that sacked Beijing and plundered China for astronomical sum of money in 1900. Of course, the damage done to China by Germany is no way comparable to that of Japan and Britain.

Firstly, the German Empire has already perished, while the Queen of England and the Emperor of Japan still exist.

Secondly, speaking of the Eight-Nation Alliance, should we add small countries like Italy, Austria and Hungary to the list?

Finally, on June 21, 1900, the Qing government declared war on the Eight Kingdoms, and the Boxers did indeed attack and kill foreigners at the consulate.

The hatred of the Eight-Nation Alliance should be attributed to the United Kingdom which organized the Allied Forces, Russia which first attacked Tianjin, and Japan which military discipline was corrupted, were the three countries.

 

[chinasun]

China has only one enemy and that is the financiers behind Wall Street and London. They laugh for too long, China won't let them have the last laugh.

 

[etylo]

In the list of Chinese people's century long humiliation, only three countries are truly recorded. UK, Japan, Russia. There is no Germany, the USA, or France(after the French left Vietnam).

The contradiction between China and USA is the conflict between the economy and the world order. China's economy relies on trade, and trade requires a peaceful and stable world. And the US economy relies on domestic demand, with war being the biggest source of domestic demand. This is the root cause of the conflict between China and the USA.

The disputes between China and Europe mainly come from Africa, and China and France are competing for Africa's economic interests.

As for Russia, first of all, Tsarist Russia has already perished, and secondly, we helped USA destroy the Soviet Union, causing the Russians to fall into disaster in the 1990s. The hatred between the two ethnic groups has been resolved.

What truly owes us now are the UK and Japan.

Germany, US and France are not benign to China in the past either. They are members of the Group of 8 countries that sacked Beijing and plundered huge sums of money from China in 1900. France had invaded China many times too. US was pretty much part of the British opium trade enforced on China for a century. US also supported Japan in the Sino-Japan war before Pearl harbour attack happened by selling the war materials oil and steel to Japan.

 

[MH.Yang]

you sound like japanese nationalist that claim koreans should be grateful for japanese colonization.

US was the 2nd biggest player in opium war profiteering,US sold weapons to JApan for its war against china where japan took taiwan as
gain from the victory.
US is the sole reason for continued chinese civil war,and economical blowbacks and global smear of its image.
US is the sole reason for western hegemony in asia ,that''s why asia needs freedom from US and anybody appeasing the US is anti asia ,american boot licking scum .

I am grateful for Germany's military assistance to China before WW2, rather than USA.

We are not grateful to USA. After the outbreak of the China Japanese War, the USA still sold a large amount of military supplies to Japan. And it wasn't until Japan attacked the USA that the USA declared war on Japan.

The USA declared war on Japan for its own sake, not for us. We only have an anti fascist ally relationship with USA, and no one owes anyone.

 

[jhungary]

he was meant to play good cop to Ursula's bad cop and got carried away and played idiot cop instead.
The sentiment in France is that of deep embarrassment especially since it's contrary to Macron's own G7 declaration last year.

Marcon is too left leaning, I would say he probably would have been gone if Russia did not invade Ukraine, it gives him boost by 2 things, him looking like a saint talking to both Russia and Ukraine, while it didn't make any progress, but the optics is at least he tried. And the second things is to alienate the far right Le Pen, who already said she will do F all about Ukraine.

I think Marcon is like Jeremy Corbin in the UK, a little more competent than Corbin but both run on popularist platform, and it works only if you have wind in the sail, it will backfire badly once that wind was gone, like how Corbin done before Brexit, and how he fall after it. Marcon is like this, and his wind is almost certainly coming to an end, and if he has to go to China to beg for vote, he is probably already too far gone.

 

[etylo]

Firstly, the German Empire has already perished, while the Queen of England and the Emperor of Japan still exist.

Secondly, speaking of the Eight-Nation Alliance, should we add small countries like Italy, Austria and Hungary to the list?

Finally, on June 21, 1900, the Qing government declared war on the Eight Kingdoms, and the Boxers did indeed attack and kill foreigners at the consulate.

The hatred of the Eight-Nation Alliance should be attributed to the United Kingdom which organized the Allied Forces, Russia which first attacked Tianjin, and Japan which military discipline was corrupted, were the three countries.

Italy, Austria and Hungary contribution was very small where as Germany was a major force. The Boxers attacked the Westerners becos the Western missionaries were slaughtering Chinese babies to eat. First I didn't believe such stories, but, after now the discovery of the Catholic churches in Canada literally slaughtered and secretly buried thousands of Native kids just decade ago, I now tend to believe the Chinese story of the Western churches savage acts then. The Europeans and Americans attitudes towards Chinese in the 1900s are no different from that of the Native Indians today, they are all savage animals.

 

[kuge]

The EU policy on China shifted after China acted against EU interests. Before then, relations between China and EU were cordial. There is no going back the damage cannot be undone.that

that shift was caused by usa's threat to eu. now eu is turning around & together with saudi arabia, honduras, etc resist usa's bullying.

 

[-=virus=-]

China’s new world order is taking shape with Xi Jinping​

Ishaan Tharoor
April 10, 2023 at 12:00 a.m. EDT

It was a bumper week for diplomacy in Beijing. Chinese President Xi Jinping accompanied his French counterpart, President Emmanuel Macron, on a three-day visit to the Chinese capital and the southern metropolis of Guangzhou.

Escaping, if briefly, from the fiery protests taking place in his own country, Macron was received by adoring, excited crowds of students at Guangzhou’s Sun Yat-sen University. In between grand receptions and formal tea ceremonies, the two leaders saw a slate of French companies and Chinese state-run firms clinch some major business deals.

Macron gave Xi the optics he sought: A clear reminder to the United States — who Xi obliquely referred to as a domineering “third party” — of the gap between its hawkish stance on China and the more perhaps equivocating posture of many in Europe. It was less clear what Xi gave Macron politically: The French president urged Xi to bring Russia “to reason” over its invasion of Ukraine, but that was met by boilerplate rhetoric and little indication of the needle of the conflict being moved in any significant direction.

In what was framed as a joint call with France, Xi urged for peace talks to resume soon and called “for the protection of civilians,” while also reiterating that “nuclear weapons must not be used, and nuclear war must not be fought” over Ukraine. That latter point marked perhaps the biggest distance between Xi and Russian President Vladimir Putin, who has periodically rattled the nuclear saber as the war he unleashed in Ukraine lurches on. Despite European entreaties, Xi made no definitive commitment to speak with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky.

Macron was joined in China by Ursula von der Leyen, president of the European Commission. The two leaders sent somewhat divergent messages; von der Leyen bemoaned China’s “unfair practices,” particularly in trade, and arrived in the country after delivering a tough speech on the authoritarian challenge posed by Beijing. Macron, on the other hand, warned against the West plunging itself into an “inescapable spiral” of tensions with China.

Chinese commentators suggested that’s because the tables of history have turned and Macron recognizes the sheer weight and importance of China’s economy, not least at a moment when he’s trying to carve out a vision of a more robust, capable and independent Europe. “Although there are still concerns in France about our country’s increasing [global] role, China’s support is essential if France wants to exercise its soft power in global governance,” Shanghai-based scholars Zhang Ji and Xue Sheng wrote in a recent essay.

In the middle of Macron’s visit, another major summit took place in Beijing. The foreign ministers of Saudi Arabia and Iran — the Middle East’s feuding antagonists — conducted the highest-level meeting between their two countries in seven years in the Chinese capital. In Washington, a bemused clutch of regional experts looked on as China played the role of a stabilizing outside power in the Middle East.

The thaw between Riyadh and Tehran was long in the works and not exclusively because of Chinese efforts. “Analysts say the warming ties are due to a convergence of interests,” wrote my colleagues Kareem Fahim and Sarah Dadouch. “Iran, under Western sanctions and trying to suffocate a domestic protest movement, has looked to ease its global and regional isolation; Saudi Arabia, faced with security threats from Iran that threaten its plan to diversify the kingdom’s economy away from oil, is seeking to tamp down regional tensions — a strategy that has included pursuing partnerships with major world powers beyond the United States.”

But it does invariably show a waning of American influence, especially over the Saudis. “Many experts still assume that whoever is in the White House will guide Saudi policy on Iran, but that simply isn’t true today,” said Anna Jacobs, a senior Gulf analyst at the International Crisis Group, to the New York Times. “Saudi Arabia and Gulf Arab states are focusing on their economic, political and security interests and protecting themselves from regional threats.”

Enter Xi’s China, an economic juggernaut now flexing new geopolitical muscles. “China has in recent years declared that it needs to be a participant in the creation of the world order,” former U.S. secretary of state Henry Kissinger told Post columnist David Ignatius last month. “It has now made a significant move in that direction.”

The contours of this imagined Chinese world order are still difficult to sketch. We know about its vast economic ambitions, including the Belt and Road Initiative that has seen China finance and invest in major infrastructure projects around the world. But in recent weeks, Xi has touted a number of other new initiatives over “security” and “civilization” — still vague policy positions essentially challenging the architecture of the U.S.-led order, as well as the concept of universal values.

“It appears to be a counterargument to [President] Biden’s autocracy versus democracy narrative,” Moritz Rudolf, a research scholar at Yale Law School’s Paul Tsai China Center, told the Financial Times. “It’s an ideological battle that’s more attractive to developing countries than people in Washington might believe.”

China’s foray into Middle East great power politics, in particular, show a new capacity and willingness to act. “In the past we would declare some principles, make our position known but not get involved operationally. That is going to change,” said Wu Xinbo, dean of the Institute of International Studies at Fudan University in Shanghai, said in the same Financial Times story.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1644005488265240576

For some analysts, Macron’s visit is a reminder of the tough questions facing Europe. While the war in Ukraine and antipathy toward Russia have galvanized the transatlantic alliance, the question of China is thornier, with Chinese investment and trade vital to Europe’s future prospects. What that means for the grim scenarios that obsess Washington policymakers — including a possible future Chinese invasion of Taiwan — is an open question, and one that may elicit unwelcome answers on both sides of the pond.

“The paradox would be that, overcome with panic, we believe we are just America’s followers,” Macron told reporters traveling with him, before gesturing to current tensions over Taiwan. “The question Europeans need to answer … is it in our interest to accelerate [a crisis] on Taiwan? No. The worse thing would be to think that we Europeans must become followers on this topic and take our cue from the U.S. agenda and a Chinese overreaction.”

“What happens in Europe now — not just in terms of the outcome of this war [in Ukraine], but how Europeans define their relations with China in the future — will shape transatlantic relations,” wrote Andrew Michta, a nonresident senior fellow at the Atlantic Council. “And Europe’s choices when it comes to its China policy will greatly influence the outcome of U.S. competition with China in other theaters too.”

A global order defined — or heavily sculpted — by Beijing’s one-party regime would not be an attractive prospect to most countries. China is, in the Economist’s gloomy analysis, a would-be “superpower that seeks influence without winning affection, power without trust and a global vision without universal human rights.”

But its greater clout on the world stage need not always ring alarm bells. “Not everything between the U.S. and China has to be a zero-sum game,” Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.), who leads the Senate Foreign Relations Committee’s Middle East panel, told Politico in the context of Beijing’s Middle East diplomacy. “I don’t know why we would perceive there to be a downside to de-escalation between Saudi Arabia and Iran.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/04/10/china-diplomacy-new-world-order-macron/

 

[American College Student]

In the list of Chinese people's century long humiliation, only three countries are truly recorded. UK, Japan, Russia. There is no Germany, the USA, or France(after the French left Vietnam).

The contradiction between China and USA is the conflict between the economy and the world order. China's economy relies on trade, and trade requires a peaceful and stable world. And the US economy relies on domestic demand, with war being the biggest source of domestic demand. This is the root cause of the conflict between China and the USA.

The disputes between China and Europe mainly come from Africa, and China and France are competing for Africa's economic interests.

As for Russia, first of all, Tsarist Russia has already perished, and secondly, we helped USA destroy the Soviet Union, causing the Russians to fall into disaster in the 1990s. The hatred between the two ethnic groups has been resolved.

What truly owes us now are the UK and Japan.

So basically what You are saying is that China wants peace with the US but that the US must accept the existence of a Japanese "debt" to China and stay east of Guam? The remaining at Guam eastwards actually has a greater chance of happening than expecting a Japanese submission. Japan would likely remilitarize if such a shift occurred.

The Taiwan standoff is actually quite solvable: just convince the population to elect a KMT candidate and that candidate would adopt better cross-strait relations paving the way to unification without a war. Problem solved.

 

[MH.Yang]

So basically what You are saying is that China wants peace with the US but that the US must accept the existence of a Japanese "debt" to China and stay east of Guam? The remaining at Guam eastwards actually has a greater chance of happening than expecting a Japanese submission. Japan would likely remilitarize if such a shift occurred.

The Taiwan standoff is actually quite solvable: just convince the population to elect a KMT candidate and that candidate would adopt better cross-strait relations paving the way to unification without a war. Problem solved.

What I mean is that we will not forget history, but we are willing to coexist peacefully with everyone, including Japan and the United Kingdom.

Although the Japanese and British still enjoy the benefits of the colonial era, they did not participate in the wars of the past.

But we do not accept a world that is always at war. China's economy relies on trade, and we need a peaceful and stable world. And the endless desire of the USA for war is what we cannot accept the most.

So the biggest problem between us and the USA is the different demands for the world order. The USA is a country that relies on domestic demand to develop its economy, and war is the greatest domestic demand. They will not accept a world without war.