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China’s New Global Institutions

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Heh, that was a gratuitous post on my part based on one of your comments in the Middle East forum about Arab unity, but it was uncalled for. My apologies.

No problem sir, just bear in mind that many of my posts, especially the ones regarding Middle Eastern unity, are very much "hypothetical". I don't believe it is realistically achievable in the foreseeable future, but my point is that the power is in their hands, there is little that outside powers like China can or would do for their cause.

Israel/Palestine issues especially are such a grey area in terms of morality (half the world will condemn you no matter which side you choose), so our practical solution is to find a balance. Which side can offer us the most, at any particular point in time.

As for "with us or against us" diplomacy, I believe we do that in terms of the One China policy. The PRC says: "You can only recognize the PRC or the ROC as the legitimate representative of China", and the ROC does the same. All the major countries in the world have chosen to recognize the PRC as the legitimate representative of China, and do not have official diplomatic relations with Taiwan.
 
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We've been through the "America is keeping us down!" argument before, so I'll cut to the chase and say that China can do whatever it wants. China has agency--it can draw in allies in Asia and gradually marginalize the US (we are not leaving: we are also an Asian power), or it can aggravate its neighbors in Asia and draw the US in. So far, China's pursuing the latter course, but China's fate is in its own hands, not that of the US.

I can't think of an example where the US has demanded "us or them" in our diplomacy. That's not the American way, but it seems to be the Chinese way, if @Chinese-Dragon 's posts are any indication of mainstream thinking in China. If you present an "us or them" choice, don't be surprised if some nations answer "them."


I would never say us or them, that's the thinking of a two year old. Even friends have other friends.

America is not keeping China down, China kept itself down, and even if to quote you "America is keeping us down!", it's our own god damn fault. America must look out for its own interest, the tax payer's money demands it. On the other hand so must China.

America is obviously using the situation to your advantage, American allies are not so much scared but they look down on China. For example Philippines would feel humiliated if it lost to China even though that is the logical conclusion. Because of China's century of humiliation and then that commie crazy crap, it's not American's fault, even the humiliation, my point is always if you let someone humiliate you, you deserve it. However it did happen, and now we got a perception problem.

Now here's where my point lies, if America can the permeant power then yea, you are making the right choice. But even the most die hard, well, maybe no fox news viewers, must admit China will eventually surpass the US in Asia by no later than 2030. Especially since our economy will surpass it long before that.


The only reason America hasn't done diplomacy the way it does with Russia to China is because Chinese thinking is not to rock the boat too hard, and moderation is needed, swift is the great enemy, never bite off more than one can chew. Tell me how would America feel if say Germany was going over to Russia. During Iraqi freedom, didn't Freedom fries become a thing and I'm pretty sure France didn't joint Saddam.

While America laugh at chinese complaints, but Chinese ship off the coast of RIMPAC, ADIZ, more spying and exercises through the China seas including last year's Liaoning trip off taiwan, Japan and all the way to Malay. These things are also seen as provocative and otherwise destabilizing, however, America has been doing that since before I was born.

We are all immature children sometimes, true sense exists, but so does 6 billion other people.


To sum up, I never blame America, I blame China for all the things that happened, we should never have been that defenceless. However we are on two sides, so let's get ready to RUMBLE! On the red corner wearing 5 stars and the challenger, China! In the blue corner, undefeated in 20 bouts, he is the undisputed heavy weight champion of the world, United "Freedom Fries" States!
 
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I would never say us or them, that's the thinking of a two year old. Even friends have other friends.

America is not keeping China down, China kept itself down, and even if to quote you "America is keeping us down!", it's our own god damn fault. America must look out for its own interest, the tax payer's money demands it. On the other hand so must China.

America is obviously using the situation to your advantage, American allies are not so much scared but they look down on China. For example Philippines would feel humiliated if it lost to China even though that is the logical conclusion. Because of China's century of humiliation and then that commie crazy crap, it's not American's fault, even the humiliation, my point is always if you let someone humiliate you, you deserve it. However it did happen, and now we got a perception problem.

Now here's where my point lies, if America can the permeant power then yea, you are making the right choice. But even the most die hard, well, maybe no fox news viewers, must admit China will eventually surpass the US in Asia by no later than 2030. Especially since our economy will surpass it long before that.


The only reason America hasn't done diplomacy the way it does with Russia to China is because Chinese thinking is not to rock the boat too hard, and moderation is needed, swift is the great enemy, never bite off more than one can chew. Tell me how would America feel if say Germany was going over to Russia. During Iraqi freedom, didn't Freedom fries become a thing and I'm pretty sure France didn't joint Saddam.

While America laugh at chinese complaints, but Chinese ship off the coast of RIMPAC, ADIZ, more spying and exercises through the China seas including last year's Liaoning trip off taiwan, Japan and all the way to Malay. These things are also seen as provocative and otherwise destabilizing, however, America has been doing that since before I was born.

We are all immature children sometimes, true sense exists, but so does 6 billion other people.


To sum up, I never blame America, I blame China for all the things that happened, we should never have been that defenceless. However we are on two sides, so let's get ready to RUMBLE! On the red corner wearing 5 stars and the challenger, China! In the blue corner, undefeated in 20 bouts, he is the undisputed heavy weight champion of the world, United "Freedom Fries" States!

You raise another interesting study in contrasts. The United States is a young country and has a short memory. The British were originally our hated enemy, now they are our closest ally. The French were originally our closest ally, and we came to their defense in two World Wars, but now they are the loudest voice against us in Europe. We destroyed Germany twice, so it won't be unprecedented for Germany to turn against us once more. Or not. Unlike China, we don't frame our present through history.

In short, Europe may already be lost to us, especially after the NSA ordeal. Russia's maneuvering in the Ukraine seems to have done nothing to cool European affection for it, but that's fine. I actually see this as an opportunity, since as I've long argued, the US and China have no historical baggage which would stand in China's way if it chooses to cultivate the US as an ally (needless to say, our Clown-in-Chief would never think to cultivate China, even after all the work Bush did bringing us to the same side in the war on terror).

You're probably right, the rivalry will intensify before there is a transformation in relations, but as you've already pointed out, the US is opportunistic. If China builds a case with the US for a realignment, don't be surprised at how quickly the US will embrace China. Indeed, witness the rush to improve relations with Iran after Iran made the most superficial change in stance towards the US.

In the meantime, I will eat my freedom fries while I wait patiently for that day.
 
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My comment: Posting this even though I find it amateurish. Unlike the US reforms at the turn of the 20th century, which helped the US from a purely domestic standpoint, the Chinese institutions are meant to help China's foreign influence. China's major issue in reshaping the world order is that it lacks allies of substance, and only has allies of convenience. That's likely not enough to institute a new system that will replace the old.

China’s New Global Institutions | The Diplomat

China’s New Global Institutions
Beijing is seeking to shape international institutions to facilitate its emergence as a global power.

By Steven Keithley
July 25, 2014

In January 1907, The New York Times published “Defects and Needs of Our Banking System,” an essay that would have a significant impact on the financial world. Within the extended article, a German immigrant named Paul Warburg railed against the inherent vulnerability of a financial status quo that had forced Americans to rely heavily upon European banking systems, particularly that of England, to “take measures for the regulation of our own household.” Warburg also believed that “so long as it [the U.S. financial system] is not thoroughly reformed, it will prevent us from ever becoming the financial centre of the world.” Thus, for the sake of financial health and the future goals of the U.S., a rising power during the early twentieth century, Warburg argued for an entirely new banking institution. After the Panic of 1907, the Senate brought Warburg on as an economic reform consultant. Within fifteen years, the ideas expressed in his article turned into a concrete reality through the creation of the Federal Reserve.

More than a century later, in a year when periodicals are full of comparisons to the period before World War I, surprisingly few mentions are made of Paul Warburg, whose attitude towards global institutions is very much alive in today’s rising power, the People’s Republic of China.

Similar to how Warburg felt about the U.S. and its relationship with the global financial community at the turn of the century, Chinese President Xi Jinping and his colleagues seem to believe that current institutional arrangements are not ideal for China’s ambition to achieve superpower status. In response, over the past few years, Beijing has created and updated international organizations, bodies and forums with a fervor not seen since the Allies redesigned the global community in the mid-1940s.

The most recent, prominent, and coincidentally most Warburg-esque example of this phenomenon was last week’s announcement of the New Development Bank (NDB), established by China in conjunction with its BRICS partners: Brazil, Russia, India and South Africa. The NDB, created “with the purpose of mobilizing resources for infrastructure and sustainable development in BRICS and other emerging and developing economies,” conveniently serves as an alternative to the Western-dominated World Bank and International Monetary Fund, institutions which China has argued possess “increasingly evident signs of losing legitimacy and effectiveness” and, more relevant for the potential superpower, limits on the voting rights and input of the Chinese delegation. Although the NDB is supposed to be egalitarian, with participation on the basis of equal shares of $10 billion and equal voting rights, the fact that the bank will be headquartered in Shanghai and contains a Contingent Reserve Arrangement whereby China will provide the largest share of a $100 billion fund means that it is not unrealistic to assume that China can and will become the NDB’s senior partner. Now, rather than watching the Western countries that dominate the World Bank or IMF take credit for development projects in Africa, or Japan leading the Asian Development Bank in East Asia, China will be able to play a more significant role in global development through the NBD. The benefits to Chinese global influence are obvious.

Beijing’s work towards crafting institutions friendlier towards Chinese goals goes far beyond finance. Earlier this year, China decided to elevate an unknown security dialogue, the Conference on Interaction and Confidence Building in Asia (CICA), to a level of importance similar to APEC, the premier outlet for promoting economic ties across the Pacific. Why? Because even though CICA is not formally organized and still possesses a nascent mission statement, it offers facilitative potential for Chinese power in two ways, both of which have been acknowledged in some capacity. First, CICA’s role as a security forum, and the absence of Japan or the U.S. as members could ensure that Asian problems are, in Xi Jinping’s words, “solved by Asians themselves.” As the preeminent power within CICA, China would have a much stronger voice on security issues. The second potential gain is that CICA could serve as a nexus between China and Southeast Asia with an agenda much easier for Beijing to influence than the existing ASEAN-sponsored forums. These are likely the reasons behind Xi’s argument for an aggressive expansion of CICA last May. The Chinese President spent the bulk of his keynote speech before the 4th CICA Summit outlining plans to strengthen the group’s jurisdiction and abilities under Chinese chairmanship.

The modification of CICA and the announcement of the NDB are merely the most recent developments in a much longer trend of adapting international arrangements to suit Chinese goals. Beijing continues to tout the importance of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO), a twelve-year-old political, economic and military group unquestionably controlled by China and used to set the agenda and even shape the domestic policy of several Central Asian member states. At last year’s SCO summit, Xi even stated that “China presents a model of development” for all members. Simultaneously, the creation of an annual BRICS summit has allowed China to have an even greater voice in international affairs, especially regarding global finance (i.e., the NDB). BRICS summits have the opportunity to rival G7 meetings in the international press, and by claiming to be “the voice and representation of emerging economies,” they provide far greater advocacy than previous institutions toward policies that are inevitably friendly to Chinese interests.

Whether these developments will lead to the successes China has envisioned is yet to be seen. There are still at least two significant questions that must be answered. First, how will China reconcile a demonstrated reluctance to embrace multilateralism (see the South China Sea issue) with a desire to strengthen and legitimize multilateral institutions beneficial to Chinese goals? Second, does China have the clout required to make international organs like the NDB truly rival the two created at Bretton Woods in 1944? The World Bank and IMF were readily accepted partly because of the unprecedented goodwill towards the powers that designed them. While Beijing is favorably viewed across the developing world, tensions over territorial disputes and disruptive “great power” rivalries remain just beneath the surface.

These issues aside, what China has been doing is novel. Much like Washington more than a century ago (thanks to men like Paul Warburg), Beijing has recognized that the future it desires cannot be achieved within the current status quo, and has taken significant steps to alter the current circumstances. There is a common saying that China seems to have reversed, “if you can’t beat them, join them.” Having tried the latter for many decades, China has now finally embraced that former. If history can repeat itself, Xi and his successors have much to look forward to.

Steven Keithley is a graduate of the Asian Studies Program at Georgetown University.
A person with average IQ should have the capacity to understand that those artificial institutions are just tools created and promoted to advance own egoistic agenda.

Ccp propaganda machine seems to work overtime these days.
 
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A person with average IQ should have the capacity to understand that those artificial institutions are just tools created and promoted to advance own egoistic agenda.

Ccp propaganda machine seems to work overtime these days.

Asia belong to China. Always have been and always will be. Mickey mouse regimes like Vietnam are just pawns in the game we are playing.
 
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A person with average IQ should have the capacity to understand that those artificial institutions are just tools created and promoted to advance own egoistic agenda.

Ccp propaganda machine seems to work overtime these days.

Sure, but that's my point: the agenda seems to be China's ego. These institutions do nothing to help the Chinese people, unlike the American bank reforms helped strengthen the American economy. That's China's prerogative, but it seems like a tremendous waste of money.
 
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A person with average IQ should have the capacity to understand that those artificial institutions are just tools created and promoted to advance own egoistic agenda.

Ccp propaganda machine seems to work overtime these days.

A person with average IQ should read the OP's article first before commenting. A person with average IQ should also note what the Diplomat is about.

:coffee:
 
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Sure, but that's my point: the agenda seems to be China's ego. These institutions do nothing to help the Chinese people, unlike the American bank reforms helped strengthen the American economy. That's China's prerogative, but it seems like a tremendous waste of money.

Yankee banks promote the foreign policy of the Yankee regime to destroy the world. Chinese bank helps the poor countries.
This is why poor countries prefer to work with China and not the murderous Yankee regime.

A person with average IQ should read the OP's article first before commenting. A person with average IQ should also note what the Diplomat is about.

:coffee:

Viets are not known for having average IQ.
I guess that explains things.
 
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A person with average IQ should read the OP's article first before commenting. A person with average IQ should also note what the Diplomat is about.

:coffee:

Even a low IQ Viet should do some research first where the Diplomat is located
 
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Sure, but that's my point: the agenda seems to be China's ego. These institutions do nothing to help the Chinese people, unlike the American bank reforms helped strengthen the American economy. That's China's prerogative, but it seems like a tremendous waste of money.
Chinese agenda is clear: ending American hegemony in Asia by advancing it's hegemony. I don't think it's a good choice for the people in Asia. Chinese are very egoistic people and only care of their own interests.

Sure, America is not perfect. It has its weaknesses, but Asia without America is not necessary a better place.
 
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A person with average IQ should read the OP's article first before commenting. A person with average IQ should also note what the Diplomat is about.

:coffee:
I mean the institutions, the chinese controlled brics bank, shanghai forum and so on, not the author. Diplomat posts mostly critical articles to China politics.

It's obvious that Xi Jinping wants to fool the neighbors. It doesn't require a high IQ blessed person to look through the trap.
 
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My comment: Posting this even though I find it amateurish. Unlike the US reforms at the turn of the 20th century, which helped the US from a purely domestic standpoint, the Chinese institutions are meant to help China's foreign influence. China's major issue in reshaping the world order is that it lacks allies of substance, and only has allies of convenience. That's likely not enough to institute a new system that will replace the old.

China’s New Global Institutions | The Diplomat

China’s New Global Institutions
Beijing is seeking to shape international institutions to facilitate its emergence as a global power.

By Steven Keithley
July 25, 2014

In January 1907, The New York Times published “Defects and Needs of Our Banking System,” an essay that would have a significant impact on the financial world. Within the extended article, a German immigrant named Paul Warburg railed against the inherent vulnerability of a financial status quo that had forced Americans to rely heavily upon European banking systems, particularly that of England, to “take measures for the regulation of our own household.” Warburg also believed that “so long as it [the U.S. financial system] is not thoroughly reformed, it will prevent us from ever becoming the financial centre of the world.” Thus, for the sake of financial health and the future goals of the U.S., a rising power during the early twentieth century, Warburg argued for an entirely new banking institution. After the Panic of 1907, the Senate brought Warburg on as an economic reform consultant. Within fifteen years, the ideas expressed in his article turned into a concrete reality through the creation of the Federal Reserve.


Steven Keithley is a graduate of the Asian Studies Program at Georgetown University.

This is an asinine article. Every sane American is against the Federal Reserve that was created while the Americans were asleep on December 23, 1913.

What sane government will allow a bank that prints any amount of money it want to without the direction of the government? What sane government would want a bank not own and run by the government but by private investors (may or may not be Americans) that operate under a different set of laws above everyone else?

You know what, keep doing it because what harms America is good for China.
:lol:

I mean the institutions, the chinese controlled brics bank, shanghai forum and so on, not the author. Diplomat posts mostly critical articles to China politics.

It's obvious that Xi Jinping wants to fool the neighbors.
It's obviously you once again do not understand the politics of the world we live in. I'm not Xunzi, I'm not going to teach you to make you smarter.
 
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This is an asinine article. Every sane American is against the Federal Reserve that was created while the Americans were asleep on December 23, 1913.

What sane government will allow a bank that prints any amount of money it want to without the direction of the government? What sane government would want a bank not own and run by the government but by private investors (may or may not be Americans) that operate under a different set of laws above everyone else?

You know what, keep doing it because what harms America is good for China.
:lol:


It's obviously you once again do not understand the politics of the world we live in. I'm not Xunzi, I'm not going to teach you to make you smarter.
Come on, you can fool others but never Vietnam. Have you forgotten that we were Chinese for 1,000 years? You can't hide anything as we both are too close in culture and custom.
 
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