China's new 'carrier killer' for Pakistan's JF-17 Thunder fighter

[ejaz007]

Well Erieyes will be effective only when Viki will come near your shore (under 300-350 KM) else even they won't do much. But yeah I agree that a single Aircraft Carrier(CBG) won't be able to do much in case of land strike but still it will be able to create a second front and will weaken your position on first front i.e direct IAF vs PAF from land.
PS: though things will change once we have 2 CBGs in next 4 years and ultimately 3 in 10 Years. I am sure you can't ignore 80+ fighters with AEWs support on moving Aircraft Carriers.

PAF has a dedicated squadron for supporting navy therefore they shall not be weakened against IAF. Their assets that shall face IAF do not include squadron that supports navy.

PS: presently you one carrier group therefore the scenario I have predicted is relevant. One you have more than one carrier group then we shall consider emerging scenario. But one problem that shall emerge is that with more carrier groups you shall need more ships protecting them and thus less ships for offensive operations.

 

[ejaz007]

did

With current BVRAAM, WVRAAM, ECM suite , dog fight ability, advance sensors, low RCS of MIG-29K compare to JF-17 I didn't over estimate MIG-29K
Kindly counter with logical conclusion.

Here comes the logical answer:

BVRAAM: Since the BVRAAM of both planes have not been actually used against each other so do not know which one shall have better performance. But shall give some advantage to Mig-29k.

WVRAAM: Here in JF-17 shall have some advantage due US AAM with better capabilities.

ECM suite and sensors: I do not have much knowledge of Mig-29k ECM suite. However shall give advantage to Mig-29k.

Do Fight ability: This depends on the pilot training, number of hours flown on the plane and pilots ability to handle the plane. Here I shall give the benefit to JF-17 since it is flying since 2007 while Mig-29k operations from carrier have yet to commence.

Low RCS: Considering that Mig-29k is twin engine, larger in size and does not have extensive stealth technology the advantage shall be with JF-17.

 

[kaykay]

PAF has a dedicated squadron for supporting navy therefore they shall not be weakened against IAF. Their assets that shall face IAF do not include squadron that supports navy.

PS: presently you one carrier group therefore the scenario I have predicted is relevant. One you have more than one carrier group then we shall consider emerging scenario. But one problem that shall emerge is that with more carrier groups you shall need more ships protecting them and thus less ships for offensive operations.

If I am not wrong then you have some Mirage-5s assigned for naval support. This means they won't be there for offense purpose but rather for defending your ports. Again as I said somewhere in previous posts, our Main aim with Viki is not to attack your land but rather for blockade purpose and to secure our interests and that we can do very well with that. If we intend to do land strike by CBGs, then that is not possible before Vikrant and then you also have to assign some JF-17s or other fourth generation aircrafts along with Mirage-5s(this was my point).
And as far as number of ships are concerned in future, we have 46 warships under construction/planned in our dockyards including 7 stealth Frigates(), 7 AESA Destroyers(1 ready, 3 under construction), 12 3000 Tons ASW corvette(1 ready, 3 under construction), 6 conventional submarines(all under construction), 4 SSBNs(1 ready, 3 under construction) and many other ships like OSPV, missile boats etc. So even after 3 CBGs our offensive capabilities won't be weakened. Also considering CBG, it alone is a big offensive package with complete punch.

 

[HariPrasad]

This missile baby will be pakistan new toys to do the job on the INDIA, we will selling many of this baby to Pakistan. Hope you guys finished the job well.

Well come baby. Give Pakistan What ever you want. We are least concern about you guys supplying any weapons to Pakistan Except Nuclear weapon (Which you have already done) We know very well the quality of Chinese Weapon. Milk Pakistan with your Junk weapon. It is hardly going to increase any threat to Indian armed forces and it will be exhausting Pakistan Defense budget. Good for us. If it would have been France or American or Russian weapon, it would have forced us to take counter measure.

 

[HariPrasad]

This is how you attack a badly design India AC.. The India carrier is very limited by its design lol an island almost in the middle of the deck, what morron think that a good AC design. This will hamper(slow) the launch and recovery of the 24 mig 29... If Pakistan send say 24 jf 17 toward the India AC and is detected India will launch the migs to intercept. This will take time because of the limitation of the AC.. By the time the migs are launch and heading toward the 24 jf 17, the Pakistani should turn their fighter back home.. This is when the AC is vulnerable, the mig will chase the jf 17 or return to their AC because their fuel is running dry... About this time if Pakistan send in another group of jf 17 toward the India AC, they be without mig protection. The mig in the air need to land to refuel and because of the badly design of the AC it takes them too long to recover and put up a fully fuel mig to defend the carrier from the incoming jf 17..

See Man Vikky can blind even best planes from a distance of 500 Km. If JF 17 tries to come close. its electronic system will fail and it will fall in sea.

 

[ejaz007]

If I am not wrong then you have some Mirage-5s assigned for naval support. This means they won't be there for offense purpose but rather for defending your ports. Again as I said somewhere in previous posts, our Main aim with Viki is not to attack your land but rather for blockade purpose and to secure our interests and that we can do very well with that. If we intend to do land strike by CBGs, then that is not possible before Vikrant and then you also have to assign some JF-17s or other fourth generation aircrafts along with Mirage-5s(this was my point).
And as far as number of ships are concerned in future, we have 46 warships under construction/planned in our dockyards including 7 stealth Frigates(), 7 AESA Destroyers(1 ready, 3 under construction), 12 3000 Tons ASW corvette(1 ready, 3 under construction), 6 conventional submarines(all under construction), 4 SSBNs(1 ready, 3 under construction) and many other ships like OSPV, missile boats etc. So even after 3 CBGs our offensive capabilities won't be weakened. Also considering CBG, it alone is a big offensive package with complete punch.

Mirage Vs shall eventually be replaced by JF-17s.

 

[bloo]

By the time 10 Mig-29k's shall takeoff from carrier JF-17's shall be returning from their successful mission.

Don't prematurely evaluate, what makes you even say that?
JF-17s will already be detected before they even get in range to fire, MiGs will thus efficiently be deployed.
What do you think the time is for take off of a MiG-29K?

 

[kaykay]

Mirage Vs shall eventually be replaced by JF-17s.

But unlike the current 12 Mirage-5s, JF-17s would be needed in large numbers. Atleast 30 or so.

 

[bloo]

Here comes the logical answer:

BVRAAM: Since the BVRAAM of both planes have not been actually used against each other so do not know which one shall have better performance. But shall give some advantage to Mig-29k.

WVRAAM: Here in JF-17 shall have some advantage due US AAM with better capabilities.

ECM suite and sensors: I do not have much knowledge of Mig-29k ECM suite. However shall give advantage to Mig-29k.

Do Fight ability: This depends on the pilot training, number of hours flown on the plane and pilots ability to handle the plane. Here I shall give the benefit to JF-17 since it is flying since 2007 while Mig-29k operations from carrier have yet to commence.

Low RCS: Considering that Mig-29k is twin engine, larger in size and does not have extensive stealth technology the advantage shall be with JF-17.

Actually I would put R-27, R-73 or Python-5 against any AIM-9 versions out there. So WVRAAM is debatable.

As for rcs, the radar coating on MiG-29K reduces its RCS by factor of 4-5 as compared to the basic MiG-29.

On top of that a better radar than the JFT, more hardpoints than the JFT, better TWR than JFT, twice the MTOW of JFT.
I heard somewhere that JFT tested some mid air refueling probes, but MiG 29 can both conduct aerial refueling and "buddy" refuel other aircraft.
So I would say the balance tilts in the MiG's favor.

 

[ejaz007]

Don't prematurely evaluate, what makes you even say that?
JF-17s will already be detected before they even get in range to fire, MiGs will thus efficiently be deployed.
What do you think the time is for take off of a MiG-29K?

What makes you think they shall be detected that early?

The main point is at what range JF-17s should be detected enabling Indian navy to deploy Mig-29s to intercept them.

As far as I know 24 Mig-29s shall be on the carrier. Even if you launch an aircraft every 30 second you still need around 12 minutes to enable 24 Mig-29s to get air borne. Hell of a long time.

 

[neehar]

\

@KRAIT, mate you look fool thanking foolish posts.

sorry cudnt stop laughing when he thanked u @KRAIT
on topic
im very much skeptical about the speed and its capacity.is this missile even tested??and indian members have a point here.how could the jf-17 s approach the cbg with the more powerful mig-29 s on board with much longer range radars??even if they manage to get near the aircraft it would have its own CBG and CIWS and SAMS for protection.the carrier has capable electronic warfare system aswel tested against the russian awacs succesfully.not as easy as some seem to think.further the CBG will be with in the range of our airforce aswell!!

What makes you think they shall be detected that early?

The main point is at what range JF-17s should be detected enabling Indian navy to deploy Mig-29s to intercept them.

As far as I know 24 Mig-29s shall be on the carrier. Even if you launch an aircraft every 30 second you still need around 12 minutes to enable 24 Mig-29s to get air borne. Hell of a long time.

considering only 3 aircrafts are launched from our carrier ,ur aircrafts will be already with in the range of ours...so by the time ours get in to ur's range dont u think we'd be already succesful??in anycase i think we can get the info regarding ur aircrafts as soon as they take off..that should give us ample time to react.besides donot forget that any action will takeplace with in the range of our airforce aswell!!one more point is the aircraft already carries a ton of missile they wont have enough missiles to protect themselves and even if they are escorted.i dont think it would help much owing to the capabilities of mig-29

 

[ejaz007]

sorry cudnt stop laughing when he thanked u @KRAIT
on topic
im very much skeptical about the speed and its capacity.is this missile even tested??and indian members have a point here.how could the jf-17 s approach the cbg with the more powerful mig-29 s on board with much longer range radars??even if they manage to get near the aircraft it would have its own CBG and CIWS and SAMS for protection.the carrier has capable electronic warfare system aswel tested against the russian awacs succesfully.not as easy as some seem to think.further the CBG will be with in the range of our airforce aswell!!


considering only 3 aircrafts are launched from our carrier ,ur aircrafts will be already with in the range of ours...so by the time ours get in to ur's range dont u think we'd be already succesful??in anycase i think we can get the info regarding ur aircrafts as soon as they take off..that should give us ample time to react.besides donot forget that any action will takeplace with in the range of our airforce aswell!!one more point is the aircraft already carries a ton of missile they wont have enough missiles to protect themselves and even if they are escorted.i dont think it would help much owing to the capabilities of mig-29

Does your aircraft carrier has any weapons installed on her as of now?

 

[HariPrasad]

What makes you think they shall be detected that early?

The main point is at what range JF-17s should be detected enabling Indian navy to deploy Mig-29s to intercept them.

As far as I know 24 Mig-29s shall be on the carrier. Even if you launch an aircraft every 30 second you still need around 12 minutes to enable 24 Mig-29s to get air borne. Hell of a long time.

Vikky will blind all Pak planes from 500 KM away.

 

[neehar]

Does your aircraft carrier has any weapons installed on her as of now?

do ur aircrafts have the missile as of now?? even though it donot have any sams or CIWS now its fully protected by a CBG and better still we have a powerful electronic suite enough to blind of an AWAC ..besides as i said any action is going to take place with in the range of our airforce..so if not fulcrums..u need to face flankers!!and thats worse !!

 

[ejaz007]

Vikky will blind all Pak planes from 500 KM away.

Yes we know. Don't scare us again and again.

Just one thing make sure you blind our planes and not your own by mistake. That would be unfortunate wouldn't it be.

do ur aircrafts have the missile as of now?? even though it donot have any sams or CIWS now its fully protected by a CBG and better still we have a powerful electronic suite enough to blind of an AWAC ..besides as i said any action is going to take place with in the range of our airforce..so if not fulcrums..u need to face flankers!!and thats worse !!

Yes our fighters have missiles. Both BVR and WVR ones.