China’s J 10 vs French Rafale - Which would win?

[gambit]

ignore the idiots

I would like to hear your profesnial opinion what do you thing Chinese equipment is it any good?

does it stand a chance against westerns made planes?

China have been absent from military affairs for about 300 yrs, meaning China have not been a contributor to the science, crafts, and arts of warfare, not matter how much internet Chinese crow about Sun Tzu or the Korean War. But give credit where it is due.

Good => Excellent => Outstanding.

China's efforts at modernizing her armed forces, at the hardware front, have been borderline excellent-outstanding. We are looking from Desert Storm, where PLA leadership was gobsmacked, to today. So we are looking at 30 yrs of hard work to produce hardware that is with decreasing dependency on Russia. That is the weakness of most countries -- their defense must be imported. Those who can build their own can dictate first to their neighbors, then later others far off. The first priority is to build your own, next is to build qualitatively and China is catching up with the West. So to answer your question: Yes, Chinese hardware is good enough to create a credible deterrence.

But the greatest problem for the PLA is on the human front. I pointed this out many times and of course, the PDF Chinese dismissed it. They dismissed it because none of them ever served. None of them know what the military life is like. The problem for the PLA is human corruption, and it is STILL going on today. The worst is the selling of ranks and assignments. This type of corruption is like a cancer. It is deep, entrenched, and much more difficult to exorcise than the real medical cancer. There ARE, not just were, mid to high level officers who demands bribes from subordinates for advancement and favorable, read 'safe', assignments. There are flag officers who make millions from selling military favors. The few who were busted were sacrificial lambs by their peers. They got careless and too greedy. Those who escaped detection now devised better and deeper ways to hide their ill gotten gains deeper and further in foreign countries. The selling of ranks and assignments have incompetent and ill educated officers at all levels of the PLA, and their incompetency WILL manifest in a real war. No amount of shiny new toys can compensate for such bad leadership. Selling a rifle on the black market is not the same thing as selling a grade/rank. The rifle serve another master. The newly promoted officer still serves the PLA but this time, he is over his head.

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

J 10 - .... Everyone should be happy.

 

[beijingwalker]

China have been absent from military affairs for about 300 yrs, meaning China have not been a contributor to the science, crafts, and arts of warfare, not matter how much internet Chinese crow about Sun Tzu or the Korean War. But give credit where it is due.

Good => Excellent => Outstanding.

China's efforts at modernizing her armed forces, at the hardware front, have been borderline excellent-outstanding. We are looking from Desert Storm, where PLA leadership was gobsmacked, to today. So we are looking at 30 yrs of hard work to produce hardware that is with decreasing dependency on Russia. That is the weakness of most countries -- their defense must be imported. Those who can build their own can dictate first to their neighbors, then later others far off. The first priority is to build your own, next is to build qualitatively and China is catching up with the West. So to answer your question: Yes, Chinese hardware is good enough to create a credible deterrence.

But the greatest problem for the PLA is on the human front. I pointed this out many times and of course, the PDF Chinese dismissed it. They dismissed it because none of them ever served. None of them know what the military life is like. The problem for the PLA is human corruption, and it is STILL going on today. The worst is the selling of ranks and assignments. This type of corruption is like a cancer. It is deep, entrenched, and much more difficult to exorcise than the real medical cancer. There ARE, not just were, mid to high level officers who demands bribes from subordinates for advancement and favorable, read 'safe', assignments. There are flag officers who make millions from selling military favors. The few who were busted were sacrificial lambs by their peers. They got careless and too greedy. Those who escaped detection now devised better and deeper ways to hide their ill gotten gains deeper and further in foreign countries. The selling of ranks and assignments have incompetent and ill educated officers at all levels of the PLA, and their incompetency WILL manifest in a real war. No amount of shiny new toys can compensate for such bad leadership. Selling a rifle on the black market is not the same thing as selling a grade/rank. The rifle serve another master. The newly promoted officer still serves the PLA but this time, he is over his head.

Lol, your wishful thinking, keep dreaming.

 

[Abid123]

Lol, your wishful thinking, keep dreaming.

Poor Yankee is mad after the humiliating defeat in Afghanistan. Lost to a bunch of afghan farmers with AK-47

 

[crankthatskunk]

Two things which could be vital in a combat are in favour of J 10. Speed 2.1 mach comapred to 1.8 by Rafa.
Second the BVR missiles, 180 miles compared to 129 miles by Rafa.
So based on BVR alone, J 10 can potentially shoot down Rafa before it sees the J 10.

 

[beijingwalker]

Two things which could be vital in a combat are in favour of J 10. Speed 2.1 mach comapred to 1.8 by Rafa.
Second the BVR missiles, 180 miles compared to 129 miles by Rafa.
So based on BVR alone, J 10 can potentially shoot down Rafa before it sees the J 10.

J-10 missiles also greatly out range rafale's, so even rafale sees J-10 , there is nothing it can do about it.

 

[Abid123]

J-10 missiles also greatly out range rafale's, so even rafale sees J-10 , there is nothing it can do about it.

I am extremely happy that PAF is inducting J-10C.

 

[Ali_Baba]

1:1 comparisons dont make sense anymore in network centric warfare doctrine. Rafale has a number of EW advantages - all of them neutralised under the EW/integrated airdefence environment the Rafale has to face when trying to enter Pakistan ...

 

[beijingwalker]

1:1 comparisons dont make sense anymore in network centric warfare doctrine. Rafale has a number of EW advantages - all of them neutralised under the EW/integrated airdefence environment the Rafale has to face when trying to enter Pakistan ...

Chinese jets EW network is better and more advanced, more integrated, Europe afterall is an union, not a real country which everything is tightly intergrated with all high tech industries

China’s J-16D electronic warfare aircraft starts combat training, ‘to team up with J-20 stealth fighter’ - Global Times

www.globaltimes.cn

 

[MajesticPug]

Two things which could be vital in a combat are in favour of J 10. Speed 2.1 mach comapred to 1.8 by Rafa.
Second the BVR missiles, 180 miles compared to 129 miles by Rafa.
So based on BVR alone, J 10 can potentially shoot down Rafa before it sees the J 10.

Service ceiling and smaller RCS too. But don't tell Gambit. He's hurt. Caucasians shouldn't be, could not be defeated in science and techs.

China have been absent from military affairs for about 300 yrs, meaning China have not been a contributor to the science, crafts, and arts of warfare, not matter how much internet Chinese crow about Sun Tzu or the Korean War. But give credit where it is due.

Good => Excellent => Outstanding.

China's efforts at modernizing her armed forces, at the hardware front, have been borderline excellent-outstanding. We are looking from Desert Storm, where PLA leadership was gobsmacked, to today. So we are looking at 30 yrs of hard work to produce hardware that is with decreasing dependency on Russia. That is the weakness of most countries -- their defense must be imported. Those who can build their own can dictate first to their neighbors, then later others far off. The first priority is to build your own, next is to build qualitatively and China is catching up with the West. So to answer your question: Yes, Chinese hardware is good enough to create a credible deterrence.

But the greatest problem for the PLA is on the human front. I pointed this out many times and of course, the PDF Chinese dismissed it. They dismissed it because none of them ever served. None of them know what the military life is like. The problem for the PLA is human corruption, and it is STILL going on today. The worst is the selling of ranks and assignments. This type of corruption is like a cancer. It is deep, entrenched, and much more difficult to exorcise than the real medical cancer. There ARE, not just were, mid to high level officers who demands bribes from subordinates for advancement and favorable, read 'safe', assignments. There are flag officers who make millions from selling military favors. The few who were busted were sacrificial lambs by their peers. They got careless and too greedy. Those who escaped detection now devised better and deeper ways to hide their ill gotten gains deeper and further in foreign countries. The selling of ranks and assignments have incompetent and ill educated officers at all levels of the PLA, and their incompetency WILL manifest in a real war. No amount of shiny new toys can compensate for such bad leadership. Selling a rifle on the black market is not the same thing as selling a grade/rank. The rifle serve another master. The newly promoted officer still serves the PLA but this time, he is over his head.

Translation for this long piece: "I know shit, therefore I shit."

 

[gambit]

Translation for this long piece: "I know shit, therefore I shit."

This is a military oriented forum. Since you never served, that translation applies to you. But what I said earlier also applied that these threads are not about making any kind of 'comparison' but for nationalistic Chinese to wank off each other.

 

[dbc]

Two things which could be vital in a combat are in favour of J 10. Speed 2.1 mach comapred to 1.8 by Rafa.

neither the J10 nor the Rafale will hit Mach 2 carrying combat loads. So there is no real advantage to either.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Rafale.

 

[Maula Jatt]

J 10 - .... Everyone should be happy.

That's a Turkish flag not Chinese my friend of the ganges
The polluted river must have something to do with this mistake

 

[MastanKhan]

Plus, J-10C alone can't justified the capability of Chinese Aircraft. Pakistan needs to have more than just the aircraft. Like from radar, AWACS, Beidou support, etc. Without that J-10C is like just has 25% of it's full capability. I don't know about Rafalle. But Rafale is still the flagship of French Fighter program.

Hi,

When you stated Rafale---you are talking about the Indian air force rafale---is that correct?

Momentarilty---I though that you would know that pakistan already has those things in operation.

But then reading the whole post, I realize that you are not well informed. Then your next comment confirmed it.

The flagship of the chinese fighter aircraft is the J20---the J16 and the J10 are the next tier in their own categories and the developing J35 somewhere in between.

So---the french are currently a full tier behind & 2 if you count the J35.

Plus if you count the newer EW package in the J10's and J16s than the IAF Rafales---then you may say about 2 1/2 tiers ahed.