China’s home-built C919 jet receives 815 orders from home and abroad

[beijingwalker]

China’s home-built C919 jet receives 815 orders from home and abroad

 

[Cookie Monster]

Is all the testing already complete?

If so then China should consider building a Maritime Patrol Aircraft like P8 based on this jet. Chinese airlines(along with potential foreign sales) will induct these jets in large quantities. Having an MPA based on this jet would be appealing for countries who buy it bcuz production at such massive scale would make spare parts, and support cheaper and more readily available. Additionally there's large quantities of P3 Orions operated by various air forces around the world...by the time China readies an MPA along the lines of P8(if not better), these air forces would be considering replacement platforms for P3s. In short I think there would be a huge demand for it when P3s would start being retired around the world.

 

[beijingwalker]

Is all the testing already complete?

If so then China should consider building a Maritime Patrol Aircraft like P8 based on this jet. Chinese airlines(along with potential foreign sales) will induct these jets in large quantities. Having an MPA based on this jet would be appealing for countries who buy it bcuz production at such massive scale would make spare parts, and support cheaper and more readily available. Additionally there's large quantities of P3 Orions operated by various air forces around the world...by the time China readies an MPA along the lines of P8(if not better), these air forces would be considering replacement platforms for P3s. In short I think there would be a huge demand for it when P3s would start being retired around the world.

C919 is civilian passange plane, this one, Y-20 is for the military use

 

[Cookie Monster]

C919 is civilian passange plane, this one, Y-20 is for the military use

P8 Poseidon is built on the Boeing 737 platform(which is a civilian passenger plane)...just like that an MPA can be built on C919

Y20 might be too big and sort of an overkill to be turned into something analogous to P8. C919 fits the bill rather nicely as a competitor to P8. C919 is roughly the same in terms of capacity/dimensions as a Boeing 737.

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

C919 is civilian passange plane, this one, Y-20 is for the military use

I read recently in multiple western newspapers that C 919 is a decade behind the latest technology in aviation, and would actually be more expensive to operate than the most recent Boeing and Airbus variants.

Is that true?

 

[beijingwalker]

I read recently in multiple western newspapers that C 919 is a decade behind the latest technology in aviation, and would actually be more expensive to operate than the most recent Boeing and Airbus variants.

Is that true?

They say that every time when China started to build anything, and now many of those they claimed as such, HSR ie, are dominating the world market. You have the money , you have the result, it's all depends on whether you have enough fund for those projects.

 

[UKBengali]

They say that ever time when China started to build anything, and now many of those they claimed as such, HSR ie, are dominating the world market. You have the money , you have the result, it's all depends on whether you have enough fund for those projects.

I think the poster may have a point when China switches to domestic turbofan early next decade.
This will not be as efficient as the latest Western engines and so may have to be a China only product, with the Chinese government supplying subsidies to generate sales.

 

[Beast]

I read recently in multiple western newspapers that C 919 is a decade behind the latest technology in aviation, and would actually be more expensive to operate than the most recent Boeing and Airbus variants.

Is that true?

That is false. The design and flight control of C919 is very advanced. Plane head is specially design and windscreen is 3D printed made. Highly efficient against wind and reduced drag.

P8 Poseidon is built on the Boeing 737 platform(which is a civilian passenger plane)...just like that an MPA can be built on C919

Y20 might be too big and sort of an overkill to be turned into something analogous to P8. C919 fits the bill rather nicely as a competitor to P8. C919 is roughly the same in terms of capacity/dimensions as a Boeing 737.

SFJ-A domestic engine has completed assemble recently and I believe is now undergoing testing. It will first be approved by PLAAF and PLANAF if successful and install onboard military C919 that can be used as MPA or surveillance aircraft. This is to bypass western blockade of product for China military. Once military has extensive used , it will be be certified available for export and civilian used in 2025.

But currently, PLAAF and PLANAF workhorse is Y-9. Despite being turboprop, it has advantage of cheaper to maintain and long loiter hours.

 

[wiseone2]

I read recently in multiple western newspapers that C 919 is a decade behind the latest technology in aviation, and would actually be more expensive to operate than the most recent Boeing and Airbus variants.

Is that true?

the boeing 747 is a great design. the cost of operation is much greater than boeing 777.

 

[ohmrlobalobayeh]

China's rival to Boeing 737 now has nearly 1,000 orders

China's C919 passenger jet — the country's answer to Boeing's popular 737 single aisle aircraft — is approaching 1,000 orders, the Chinese government-owned jet maker says.

The C919, made by Commercial Aircraft Corp. of China Ltd. (COMAC), has gained 815 orders from 28 customers in China and abroad, COMAC stated after winning its latest order for 30 more jets.

The newest buyer is China Huarong Financial Leasing of Beijing, a financial asset manager that orders COMAC regional jets, too.

The value of the deals was not disclosed.

As COMAC wins more C919 orders, it could undermine Boeing's own sales in China, where Boeing now sells one in three new 737s made in Renton, and where it's also launched a completion center for 737s in a joint venture with COMAC.

Any decline in 737 sales could also hurt Puget Sound region aerospace companies that build and supply parts for 737s.

Boeing's 737 Max factory in Renton
Photos by Anthony Bolante | PSBJ

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Boeing's 737 order backlog tops 4,600. Because of that, Boeing and Airbus are weighing plans to increase single aisle production, hoping to deliver airplanes to Chinese airlines faster. The C919 aims to enter service in China in 2022.

The China Huarong Financial deal was announced at a lavish signing ceremony in Beijing last month, the kind Boeing and Airbus typically reserve for big air shows.

The first C919 test aircraft, powered by LEAP engines just like those on Boeing and Airbus jets, flew its maiden flight last May. It flew a first intercity flight in November.

A second test aircraft flew in China in December and made a two-hour flight from Shanghai Pudong International Airport.

COMAC says it will produce six aircraft for testing and certification efforts as it works to achieve aviation safety certifications.

COMAC has embarked on an aggressive campaign to promote the C919 in recent months. That has included Twitter messages highlighting how some COMAC workers are on the job, even during national Chinese holidays.


https://twitter.com/COMACAmerica/status/916406857643651073
COMAC America Corp.@COMACAmerica

While most vacationed over the National Day holiday, some #COMAC employees remained hard at work on the production line! #dedication #加油

4:56 AM - Oct 7, 2017

• 
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• 
  See COMAC America Corp.'s other Tweets

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China also played a video at the closing ceremonies of the recent Winter Olympics in South Korea that featured C919 as one of four symbols of China's growing technology prowess ahead of Beijing playing host to the Winter Olympics in 2022.

COMAC said its design and manufacturing efforts are improving thanks to three foreign aerospace experts it's hired and recruited from the U.S., Canada and the UK. COMAC Chairman He Dongfeng said in a recent news release, the trio joined COMAC to offer "wisdom and sweat" to the aircraft development program.

COMAC identified the experts as "Mr. Ding Wei," a British expert committed to design optimization; "Mr. Barratt," a Canadian expert in avionics system integration; and "Mr. Barry," a U.S. manufacturing expert whose efforts COMAC honored with "a 2017 Special Contribution Award for Batch Production and Acceleration."

That's believed to be Barry Cathey, a former Boeing manager whose C919 program work was featured in a 2014 China Daily story.

 

[FuturePAF]

In its current configuration, if this jet can be sold for less than what comparable boeing, airbus, embrarer, bombardier, and the Russian manufacturers can do it will create a perfect environment for Chinese engine manufacturers to double down on SAFETY (no need to get the engine ready ASAP, just work on making sure it is safe before ruining your reputation if a plane crashes due to a defective or poorly engineered engine). Aircraft and aircraft parts sales will be a huge industry the Chinese can dominate with their own domestic market allowing economies of scale to help bring down prices.

 

[TaiShang]

China builds ‘super hangar’ to nest surging civil fleet

(Xinhua) 08:12, March 26, 2018

China's second domestically-developed large passenger jet C919 of COMAC (Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China) is pictured in a hangar before its first test flight at the Shanghai Pudong International Airport in Shanghai, China, December 13, 2017. Photo: IC

According to ancient legend, the Chinese engineer Lu Ban is believed to have created a flying wooden bird.

Today, Zhao Boyou has taken up his mantle, making "nests" for aircraft.

"People need to rest after working hard. So do aircraft. Jumbos need spacious hangars," says Zhao, 47, vice chief structural engineer of the China Aviation Planning and Design Institute (CAPDI) of the Aviation Industry Corporation of China, Ltd. (AVIC), the State-owned aviation giant.

His team is constructing a large column-free hangar for Beijing's new airport that will be able to hold about 11 civil aircraft.

"We make hangars for aircraft to undergo 'health checks', maintenance, repairs and overhauls," says Zhao.

The maintenance hangar for China Southern Airlines will set an Asian record, measuring 405 meters across, 100 meters deep, and with a clearance height of 30 meters.

It will be about 46 meters wider than the current Asian record holder: the A380 hangar at Beijing International Airport, also made by CAPDI.

"It will be able to hold two A380 jumbos, three B777 wide-body aircraft and six narrow-bodies, such as the B737 or A320," says Zhao, sketching a rectangular building to illustrate. "And about 1,200 tons of maintenance facilities will be suspended from the roof."

Boom period

CAPDI has designed more than 95 percent of the civil aircraft maintenance hangars in China, and all the paint hangars.

China's civil aviation industry is mushrooming in fleet size as well as passenger and cargo loads.

At the end of 2017, the civil fleet stood at 3,296 aircraft and the industry logged more than 10 million flight hours for the first time, according to the Civil Aviation Administration of China (CAAC).

"After arriving at your destination, have you ever thought about where the plane goes?" asks Zheng Yingping, executive deputy director of the Civil Aviation Engineering Design and Research Institute of CAPDI.

"It's the hangar, a place for aircraft to undergo rest and restoration for the next trip. Safety is the lifeline of civil aviation, and the hangar is a critical point for ensuring safety," Zheng says.

Beijing's new airport, which was built to relieve pressure on Beijing International Airport, is located 46 kilometers from the downtown area and is expected to start test operations in late 2019.

But more airports means more pressure on construction land.

The long-span hangar is the "secret weapon", the most feasible and economical solution to meet these challenges, says Zheng.

Bigger and better

"We are exploring creative methods to make hangars that are bigger and longer but lighter and stronger in structure," says Zhao.

The long-span hangar is more than just a "big building with a massive roof."

It is a functional building with many cradles and suspension maintenance equipment, tailored for huge aircraft bodies and maintenance services.

An array of pipelines must supply power, water, ventilation, gas and other necessities.

"It is a huge challenge for engineers to balance strength and flexibility," says Zhao.

Numerous other factors such as costs, land area and time limits have also been taxing their minds.

As hangars are mostly built near runways, height is severely restricted. However, traditional hangars have "big heads," a gate truss structure to support the roof.

But the cost of a "big head" for the super hangar was prohibitive.

"We tried and experimented time and again. Finally, we came up with a creative design that adopted high-strength cables for leverage," says Zhao.

The patented design could also use about 1,500 tons of steel less than the traditional design, enough to build a hangar roof the size of a football field.

CAPDI has previously set records with the 80-meter maintenance hangar in Guangzhou in 1985, the 352-meter A380 hanger in Beijing in 2005, and a group of hangars at Shanghai's Pudong International Airport in 2006.

"China has ambitions to integrate into the global aviation industry chain. China-developed aircraft are flying overseas, and so are our creative designs and engineering services," says CAPDI chairman Lian Dawei.

"We've cast our eyes on the markets of Africa and Southeast Asia, supporting them to fly higher with 'China span' and 'China speed'."

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

They say that every time when China started to build anything, and now many of those they claimed as such, HSR ie, are dominating the world market. You have the money , you have the result, it's all depends on whether you have enough fund for those projects.

1. True, that is why I am always skeptical of any thing wildly raised in such a way.
2. HSR is a totally different beast. HSR is far more easy to develop, build than a proper aviation industry.
3. No, money is not all that matters. Otherwise, countries in Saudi Arabia would also be making parts for the aviation supply chain. One needs to have engineering talent, market, drive, and industry.
4. Still, the answer is undetermined.

That is false. The design and flight control of C919 is very advanced. Plane head is specially design and windscreen is 3D printed made. Highly efficient against wind and reduced drag.

How do you know that?

Also, 3D printing is now applied in all advanced processes according to need. Also, 3D print by itself doesn't mean efficiency.

Again, I am saying nothing, just reserving my judgement for the future. The actual results can only be known by independent third party testing and operation.

 

[sweetgrape]

1. True, that is why I am always skeptical of any thing wildly raised in such a way.
2. HSR is a totally different beast. HSR is far more easy to develop, build than a proper aviation industry.
3. No, money is not all that matters. Otherwise, countries in Saudi Arabia would also be making parts for the aviation supply chain. One needs to have engineering talent, market, drive, and industry.
4. Still, the answer is undetermined.

How do you know that?

Also, 3D printing is now applied in all advanced processes according to need. Also, 3D print by itself doesn't mean efficiency.

Again, I am saying nothing, just reserving my judgement for the future. The actual results can only be known by independent third party testing and operation.

Market, monkey, talents and other factors? which part China lack of? be patient, China can make it, just be persistent!

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

Market, monkey, talents and other factors? which part China lack of? be patient, China can make it, just be persistent!

I agree. China seems to be the first country to actually have a credible chance at challenging the Aviation duopoly.

Not only that, a good civil aviation industry is highly required for a good functional MIC, and the national defense as well, because in aviation everything is dual use.