China's Geography

[INDIC]

Qing Empire was addressed as China by all international treaties. The larger part of Mongolia has become Chinese territory. India has not an inch of UK territory.

Manchus were foreigners to Han Chinese same like Dutch or British in South Africa. There is a reason you hate Wu Sangui for opening the gates of Great Wall for Manchus to conqueror China from Mings and then trying to breakaway South China from Northern China.

 

[Fattyacids]

Manchus were foreigners to Han Chinese same like Dutch or British in South Africa. There is a reason you hate Wu Sangui for opening the gates of Great Wall for Manchus to conqueror China from Mings and then trying to breakaway South China from Northern China.

Manchu were vassal to the Ming, they took orders from Ming Generals. Manchu leader Nurhaci called himself a loyal vassal but decided to rebel because the Ming troops accidentally killed his father.
So don't confuse Manchu with foreign invaders of South Asia, Mughals and British were never vassal to you.

When Wu make alliance with Manchu, Ming had already fallen. He later revolt against Qing, wanting to be emperor himself. So he was not well perceived. Your wikipedia degree in Chinese history isn't going to cut it with us here. You need proper schooling.

 

[BoQ77]

Various Chinese dynasty ruled beyond the Great Wall, before and after it was built, as far as North Korea and Altai region.

Manchu were vassal to Ming for hundreds of years. They were no foreigners. Manchu flag is that of a Chinese dragon.
Foreigners are British and Mughals, they were never vassal to Indian kingdom, their flags have their own emblem.

Vietnam conquer China and call themselves Emperor of China ... then everything is very normal, right ??

So a shame to say like you

 

[Multani]

Manchu were vassal to Chinese for hundred of years. They were no foreigners. Qing dynasty was an alliance of Manchu and Chinese who revolted after the fall of Ming. The civil system is Chinese, culture and language is Chinese. Foreigner invaders are those who imposed their rule and culture, like how Mughals persian-ized India. But not all foreign invaders are bad, British created your country which otherwise didn't exist. If there's real democracy, the princely states wouldn't be annexed or forced to join newly created India, they would all be 176 independent countries.

excellent post. Very knowledgeable

I believe the Chinese community on PDF is the Best community, the most intelligent, wise, and caring

indians are nothing in comparison, and neither are turks

 

[Snomannen]

For those who are telling nonsenses about "colony" and "outsiders":

《大義覺迷錄》：在逆賊等之意，徒謂本朝以滿洲之君，入為中國之主，妄生此疆彼界之私，遂故為訕謗詆譏之說耳。不知本朝之為滿洲，猶中國之有籍貫。舜為東夷之人，文王為西夷之人，曾何損於聖德乎？

The rulers of Qing clearly claimed that Manchu (滿洲) is a part of China/ the Middleland (中國) and criticized those traitors/ ignorant fools (逆賊) who dare to deny such fact. Who do you think you are to represent Manchurian themselves.

Now back to Yuan dynasty:

「蠻夷小邦，不足以勞中國（Yuan）。張立道嘗再使安南有功，今復使往，宜無不奉命。」

「誕膺景命，奄四海以宅尊﹔必有美名，紹百王而紀統。肇從隆古，匪獨我家。且唐之為言蕩也，堯以之而著稱﹔虞之為言樂也，舜因之而作號。馴至禹興而湯造，互 名夏大以殷中，世降以還，事殊非古。雖乘時而有國，不以利而制稱。為秦為漢者，著從初起之地名﹔曰隋曰唐者，因即所封之爵邑。且皆徇百姓見聞之偶習，要一 時經制之權宜，概以至公，不無少貶。我太祖聖武皇帝，握乾符而起朔土，以神武而膺帝圖，四震天聲，大恢土宇，輿圖之廣，歷古所無。頃者耆宿詣庭，奏草申 請，謂既成於大業，宜早定於鴻名。在古制以當然，於朕心乎何有！可建國號曰大元，蓋取《易經》乾元之義，茲大冶流形於庶品，孰名資始之功。予一人底寧於萬 邦，尤切體仁之要，事從因革，道協天人。於戲！稱義而名，固非為之溢美﹔孚休惟永，尚不負於投艱。嘉與敷天，共隆大號！」

The rulers of Yuan also clearly claim the title 中國 and the succession of former Chinese dynasties in the proclamation of the founding of the Great Yuan, just like every new Chinese dynasties did when they replace their former dynasty.

Vietnam conquer China and call themselves Emperor of China ... then everything is very normal, right ??

So a shame to say like you

First of all, will Vietnam even call itself China if this actually happened~?
Second, will the ruler of the new Empire worship all the former Chinese empires and claim the succession of theirs, just like what Yuan and Qing's rulers did~?
Third, will the new ruler even claim the Vietnam is only part of China?

Will you~?

 

[Götterdämmerung]

Manchus were foreigners to Han Chinese same like Dutch or British in South Africa. There is a reason you hate Wu Sangui for opening the gates of Great Wall for Manchus to conqueror China from Mings and then trying to breakaway South China from Northern China.

I had to look up on wiki to know who the **** is Wu Sangui.

The Netherland and the UK still are sovereign countries. Where is Manchu Kingdom?

 

[Viet]

First of all, will Vietnam even call itself China if this actually happened~?
Second, will the ruler of the new Empire worship all the former Chinese empires and claim the succession of theirs, just like what Yuan and Qing's rulers did~?
Third, will the new ruler even claim the Vietnam is only part of China?

Will you~?

no, Vietnam has never intention to conquer and pacify the middle land.

all Vietnam wants is an equal relationship to Han China. Vietnamese scholars used to call China as northern country, Chinese as northerner while refer Vietnam as southern country, the Viets as southerner. plus Chinese were called as "men of the Tang".

 

[BestUsernameEver]

Nothing new every one knows that todays China is actually a lot bigger than Imperial China ..... It is that the CCP that is confused.

 

[INDIC]

I had to look up on wiki to know who the **** is Wu Sangui.

The Netherland and the UK still are sovereign countries. Where is Manchu Kingdom?

Still they were foreigners for Han Chinese just like British-Dutch were for South Africans.

Manchu were vassal to the Ming, they took orders from Ming Generals. Manchu leader Nurhaci called himself a loyal vassal but decided to rebel because the Ming troops accidentally killed his father.
So don't confuse Manchu with foreign invaders of South Asia, Mughals and British were never vassal to you.

When Wu make alliance with Manchu, Ming had already fallen. He later revolt against Qing, wanting to be emperor himself. So he was not well perceived. Your wikipedia degree in Chinese history isn't going to cut it with us here. You need proper schooling.

You see Wu Sangui as traitor for inviting Manchus.

 

[Fattyacids]

Still they were foreigners for Han Chinese just like British-Dutch were for South Africans.

Manchu live next to us, they served under CHinese generals for centuries, even their flag is the emblem of Chinese dragon. How are they foreigner?

British-Dutch came from thousand miles away to take South Africa, just like how British came to colonize India. That is what you called foreigners.

You see Wu Sangui as traitor for inviting Manchus.

Anyone who betrayed the emperor is a traitor. It's not about the Manchu. He even betrayed the Manchu later, but it didn't make him a hero. Now you feeling stupid?

 

[INDIC]

Manchu live next to us, they served under CHinese generals for centuries, even their flag is the emblem of Chinese dragon. How are they foreigner?

British-Dutch came from thousand miles away to take South Africa, just like how British came to colonize India. That is what you called foreigners.



Anyone who betrayed the emperor is a traitor. It's not about the Manchu. He even betrayed the Manchu later, but it didn't make him a hero. Now you feeling stupid?

I can understand your fancy portrayal. Infact, the Xinhai revolution was anti-Manchu in nature and many of KMT leaders were known as Anti-Manchu when they were struggling against the Qing Dynasty. Even British took Indians in administrative position to rule India but British were never accepted by Indians same like the Han psyche never accepted getting ruled by 5 million Manchus.

 

[Fattyacids]

I can understand your fancy portrayal. Infact, the Xinhai revolution was anti-Manchu in nature and many of KMT leaders were known as Anti-Manchu when they were struggling against the Qing Dynasty. Even British took Indians in administrative position to rule India but British were never accepted by Indians same like the Han psyche never accepted getting ruled by 5 million Manchus.

This is the chronology of your dumb lies.

1) First, you said China was a Manchu colony. (So I educated you on the definition of "colony")

2) Then you side step to saying Manchu are foreigners. (I proved you wrong again.)

3) Then, you moved to Wu Sangui. But he betrayed Manchu too. (Again, you got rebutted.)

Your goalpost keeps moving each time you dumb lie is exposed. How stupid?

Now Xinhal revolution? It came about due to the failure of the monarch to fight western imperialism. It wasn't about Manchu per se, the court officials were mostly Han, dumbo! KMT was the one who recognition of 5 ethnic group as one nation called 中华民族 . CCP later expanded it to 50 over.

British governed India using British system, Indian were just colonized labor who had no say. Remember, India was a colony.
Qing is China, the governing system is Chinese, the court is made up of Confucian scholars and Chinese generals more than Manchu officials.
A colony is not a country

 

[INDIC]

This is the chronology of your dumb lies.

1) First, you said China was a Manchu colony. So I educated you on the definition of "colony"

2) Then you side step to saying Manchu are foreigners. I proved you wrong again.

3) Then, you moved to Wu Sangui. But he betrayed Manchu too. Again, you got rebuttal.

Your goalpost keeps moving each time you dumb lie is exposed. How stupid?

And now Xinhal revolution? The revolution came about due to the failure of ruling monarch to fight western imperialism. It wasn't about Manchu, the court officials and troops were mostly Han Chinese, dumbo! KMT was the one advocated the recognition of the 5 minorities group as one nation called 中华民族 . CCP later expanded it to 56.

British governed India using British system, Indian were just colonized labor. Indians have no say. Remember, India was a colony. Qing is China, the governing system is Chinese civil system, the court is made up of Confucian scholars and Chinese generals more than Manchu officials. There is no parallel to be drawn. Now go cry

And again you wrote bunch of false arguments.

 

[Fattyacids]

And again you wrote bunch of false arguments.

False argument were all made you. I chronologicalized and rebutted each and every one of them.

 

[BoQ77]

False argument were all made you. I chronologicalized and rebutted each and every one of them.

hey
what's the relationship type between Song dynasty to at-the-time Vietnam, and Yuan, Qing dynasty to Vietnam ?

if Vietnam did the same as Manchus, so any other vassal would be Vietnam vassal ?
Actually Vietnam keep its independence, even has their own emperors ...
except Ming occupation, there's not any Chinese officials in Vietnam during long time

If Yuan, Qing, could control Vietnam why they must attempt to invade and be defeated ?
few times. Song soldiers take refugees to Vietnam and under Vietnam care, waiting for change to revenge Mongols.

actually, China never ever been able to control Vietnam as their vassal. Any independence like that all start by defeating Northern power.