China's Geography

[senheiser]

 

[shuttler]

the above map of China is wrong

 

[Edison Chen]

Bullshit, in this video maker's opinion, these places are like this....Poor area, no cities but farm land or desert. He must never been to China.

 

[himalayah]

the best part of the video was the historic maps. only time tibet was part of 'chinese' empire was under the mongols - whose map covered most of eurasia - and the manchus, another one of the foreign non-han "barbarian" buffer states that invaded han lands. if mongolia today can be independent and thriving, then by the graceful blessings of tengri and guanyin these lands will be peacefully returned and reclaimed by uighur, tibetan and mongolian people. han from china proper will themselves do this when they throw off one party dictatorship to embrace democracy in the not too distant future .

 

[Fattyacids]

the best part of the video was the historic maps. only time tibet was part of 'chinese' empire was under the mongols - whose map covered most of eurasia - and the manchus, another one of the foreign non-han "barbarian" buffer states that invaded han lands. if mongolia today can be independent and thriving, then by the graceful blessings of tengri and guanyin these lands will be peacefully returned and reclaimed by uighur, tibetan and mongolian people. han from china proper will themselves do this when they throw off one party dictatorship to embrace democracy in the not too distant future .

Manchu were vassal to Chinese for hundred of years. They were no foreigners. Qing dynasty was an alliance of Manchu and Chinese who revolted after the fall of Ming. The civil system is Chinese, culture and language is Chinese. Foreigner invaders are those who imposed their rule and culture, like how Mughals persian-ized India. But not all foreign invaders are bad, British created your country which otherwise didn't exist. If there's real democracy, the princely states wouldn't be annexed or forced to join newly created India, they would all be 176 independent countries.

 

[Edison Chen]

I think the most great contribution of Qing Dynasty is to defend the completeness of China, if it were Ming Dynasty, Xinjiang, Tibet or Mongolia will probably lost to Russian invaders or Tibetan separatism.

 

[himalayah]

Manchu were vassal to Chinese for hundred of years. They were no foreigners. Qing dynasty was an alliance of Manchu and Chinese who revolted after the fall of Ming. The civil system is Chinese, culture and language is Chinese. Foreigner invaders are those who imposed their rule and culture, like how Mughals persian-ized India. But not all foreign invaders are bad, British created your country which otherwise didn't exist. If there's real democracy, the princely states wouldn't be annexed or forced to join newly created India, they would all be 176 independent countries.

Mughals couldn't have ruled India without Rajputs as allies either. Doesn't change the fact the fact that Mughals, Mongolians and Manchurians are foreigners to both Indian and Han people. Only difference is we retain and proudly live our Dharmic culture, whilst you people were marching the streets to destroy any remnants of Chinese culture/civilization few decades back. Hence the haircut in your avatar, and jeans/shirts/tuxedos most Chinese like to wear.

China didn't exist before 1949 by these standards. When the ROC government existed in a fractured polity under Japanese, there was also an Azad Hind government led by nationalists of India against British occupation.

The princely states were left as is by the British, with an option to remain independent. Sardar Patel consolidated most of these states through his iron hand. People like you still cry for your Portugese masters being kicked out of Goa. That was also part of the same.

Your viewpoint is extremely skewed. You want to believe only your version of events and to hell with neutral historical accounts. But what better to expect, I guess?

Oh and I almost forgot, here's your two quarters.

 

[Fattyacids]

Mughals couldn't have ruled India without Rajputs as allies either. Doesn't change the fact the fact that Mughals, Mongolians and Manchurians are foreigners to both Indian and Han people. Only difference is we retain and proudly live our Dharmic culture, whilst you people were marching the streets to destroy any remnants of Chinese culture/civilization few decades back. Hence the haircut in your avatar, and jeans/shirts/tuxedos most Chinese like to wear.

China didn't exist before 1949 by these standards. When the ROC government existed in a fractured polity under Japanese, there was also an Azad Hind government led by nationalists of India against British occupation.

The princely states were left as is by the British, with an option to remain independent. Sardar Patel consolidated most of these states through his iron hand. People like you still cry for your Portugese masters being kicked out of Goa. That was also part of the same.

Your viewpoint is extremely skewed. You want to believe only your version of events and to hell with neutral historical accounts. But what better to expect, I guess?

Oh and I almost forgot, here's your two quarters.

Central Asians Mughals were never vassal to any Indian kingdom. Babur conquered you without any help. Mughals imposed their rule and culture. Even your living culture today, food, dressing and music are all Persia-nized from Mughal era.

China was never a colony, like India. In 1911, China became a republic under KMT. In 1949, CCP came into power. They are just different political parties. China the country was always there.

"Sardar Patel consolidated these states with Iron hands" Proving me right that no real democracy existed.

Nizam's Hyderabad state was annexed, reduced and merged into other states.

Historic facts are facts. Spare this forum your dumb trolling.

 

[IND151]

Mughals are never vassal to any Indian kingdom. Babur conquered you with any help. Mughals imposed their rule and culture. Your living culture, food, dressing and music are all Persian.

China was never a colony of any country. In 1911, China became a republic under KMT. In 1949 China, CCP came into power. They are different political parties. China was created 2000 years ago.

"Sardar Patel consolidated these states with Iron hands" But didn't you champion democracy either, proving me right that no real democracy existed. Nizam's Hyderabad was annexed, dissolved and merged into other states.

Historic facts are facts.

The rulers after auranjeb were weak and Sha Alam was puppet mughal leader supported by Martahas.

Babur's son needed alliance of Rajput to strengthen his rule and expansion.

Despite that no Mughal ruler was able to conquer all India subcontnent.

Later, they were defeated By Marathas.

As always, weak history.

 

[Fattyacids]

The rulers after auranjeb were weak and Sha Alam was puppet mughal leader supported by Martahas.

Babur's son needed alliance of Rajput to strengthen his rule and expansion.

Despite that no Mughal ruler was able to conquer all India subcontnent.

Later, they were defeated By Marathas.

As always, weak history.

The point of the argument, Turk-Mongol Mughals were foreign invaders, never part of south asia. Not what happened after they ruled South Asia!

As always, poor reading and comprehension skill.

 

[himalayah]

Mughals are never vassal to any Indian kingdom. Babur conquered you with any help. Mughals imposed their rule and culture. Your living culture, food, dressing and music are all Persian.

China was never a colony of any country. In 1911, China became a republic under KMT. In 1949 China, CCP came into power. They are different political parties. China was created 2000 years ago.

"Sardar Patel consolidated these states with Iron hands" But didn't you champion democracy either, proving me right that no real democracy existed. Nizam's Hyderabad was annexed, dissolved and merged into other states.

Historic facts are facts.

Our culture is persian? Do you have any experience with Dharmic culture, have you interacted or sat down, engaged with a religious Tibetan, let alone any Indian? If you have no clue about the complexity of India's culture, then abstain from passing such remarks. The foundation of most north Indian languages is early Prakrit, which branched into various languages we have today. In the south it is proto-Tamil or a composite Dravidian language. The Northeast also has its unique culture that is intertwined with Dharmic history.

China was never a colony. Because you don't want to consider Genghis Khan or the Manchus as colonizers. It is a matter of perspective. We are not delusional and admit that parts of India were colonized by Mughals and British, the worst part is it wouldn't have been possible without disunity and treachery at times within the same Kingdom, which allowed foreigners to gain a foothold. You guys had a century of humiliation, we had five centuries of humiliation. But the fact is, we don't beat you with a stick using Nanjing, Japanese atrocities, Mongols, Manchus, etc. to make fun of you. You can do this to your heart's content though.

Now for the princely states. Sardar Patel offered Jinnah a deal. Hold a democratic plebiscite in ALL princely states including Kashmir, Hyderabad, Junagadh, etc. based on wishes of the majority. This way, Junagadh and Hyderabad would have gona with India being hindu majority, and Kashmir to Pakistan. But Jinnah rejected this, claiming Hyderabad is an ancient muslim state that belongs to Pakistan (actually it was very rich and crucial for financial security of the newly created Pakistan), before the Nizam carried out massacres of Hindus, and police action was taken leading to him flying to Pakistan with the treasury's gold and jewels.. Jinnah's incompetence lost him all three, after the Hindu maharajah of Kashmir signed an accession document, and Kashmir's populist leader Sheikh Abdullah agreed for autonomy within Indian union (research what was passed in Assembly of J&K after Pakistan refused to follow UN resolutions' requirements).

Goa was negotiated for nearly 15 years, and Portugese arrogantly refused any compromise every time. Nehru's Gandhian approach led to discontent and angst amongst Goans who wanted to rid themselves of Portugese oppressors. After Port. soldiers fired upon peaceful Goan protestors, it was liberated by the wishes of it's people. Brezhnev was touring the country at the time, and said don't worry about Foreign imperialist westerners, they will criticize it but we support you. Africans liberation movements also saw it as long overdue. Are Chinese now part of the foreign imperialist Westerners? do you support Portugese occupation of Goa, French/Dutch/other European occupation of IndoChina, Macao, HK, etc? Indians support liberation of these lands from Europeans, but you Chinese seem to love your European masters too much, licking their boots at every occasion.

 

[BoQ77]

Vietnam call Yuan as Yuan Mongols .... in Vietnamese Nguyen - Mong

 

[Fattyacids]

Our culture is persian? Do you have any experience with Dharmic culture, have you interacted or sat down, engaged with a religious Tibetan, let alone any Indian? If you have no clue about the complexity of India's culture, then abstain from passing such remarks. The foundation of most north Indian languages is early Prakrit, which branched into various languages we have today. In the south it is proto-Tamil or a composite Dravidian language. The Northeast also has its unique culture that is intertwined with Dharmic history.

Culture encompasses all things in life. Religion is just a part of it.
Let me remind you, the original argument was Mughal imposed their rule and culture, like all foreign invaders. Not the other way round. So don't side track.

China was never a colony. Because you don't want to consider Genghis Khan or the Manchus as colonizers. It is a matter of perspective. We are not delusional and admit that parts of India were colonized by Mughals and British, the worst part is it wouldn't have been possible without disunity and treachery at times within the same Kingdom, which allowed foreigners to gain a foothold. You guys had a century of humiliation, we had five centuries of humiliation. But the fact is, we don't beat you with a stick using Nanjing, Japanese atrocities, Mongols, Manchus, etc. to make fun of you. You can do this to your heart's content though.

Colony refers to modern era. China was never one.

Genghis Khan never succeeded in China, his son did. But he called himself emperor of China. Anyway he was kicked out in 90 years. Manchu Qing is an alliance with Chinese, their flag is a Chinese dragon. Mughals or British surely didn't use Indian Hindu symbol as their flag.

Century of Humiliation is our own term. To us, it is an humiliation to be weak, but Chinese emperor still ruled China. India was ruled by British, more than a century, that would be beyond humiliation to us.

Now for the princely states. Sardar Patel offered Jinnah a deal. Hold a democratic plebiscite in ALL princely states including Kashmir, Hyderabad, Junagadh, etc. based on wishes of the majority. This way, Junagadh and Hyderabad would have gona with India being hindu majority, and Kashmir to Pakistan. But Jinnah rejected this, claiming Hyderabad is an ancient muslim state that belongs to Pakistan (actually it was very rich and crucial for financial security of the newly created Pakistan), before the Nizam carried out massacres of Hindus, and police action was taken leading to him flying to Pakistan with the treasury's gold and jewels.. Jinnah's incompetence lost him all three, after the Hindu maharajah of Kashmir signed an accession document, and Kashmir's populist leader Sheikh Abdullah agreed for autonomy within Indian union (research what was passed in Assembly of J&K after Pakistan refused to follow UN resolutions' requirements).

Goa was negotiated for 15 years. Nehru's Gandhian approach led to discontent and angst amongst Goans who wanted to rid themselves of Portugese oppressors. After Port. soldiers fired upon peaceful Goan protestors, it was liberated by the wishes of it's people. Brezhnev was touring the country at the time, and said don't worry about Foreign imperialist westerners, they will criticize it but we support you. Africans liberation movements also saw it as long overdue. Are Chinese now part of the foreign imperialist Westerners? do you support Portugese occupation of Goa, French/Dutch/other European occupation of IndoChina, Macao, HK, etc? Indians support liberation of these lands from Europeans, but you Chinese seem to love your European masters too much, licking their boots at every occasion.

No real democracy existed. Thanks for proving me right again.

 

[himalayah]

Culture encompasses all things in life. Religion is just a part of it.
Let me remind you, the crux of the argument is Mughal imposed their rule and culture, like all foreign invaders. Not the other way round.



Colony refers to modern era. China was never one.

Genghis Khan never succeeded in China, his son did. But he called himself emperor of China. Anyway he was kicked out in 90 years. Manchu Qing is an alliance with Chinese, their flag is a Chinese dragon. Mughals or British surely didn't use Indian Hindu symbol as their flag

Century of Humiliation is our own term. To us, it is an humiliation to be weak, but Chinese emperor still ruled China. India was ruled by British, more than a century, that would be beyond humiliation to us.



The point of the argument is no real democracy existed. Thanks for proving me right again.

It's evident to me now, your knowledge of India's culture is zilch - shunya.

The mongols called themselves emperors of China, like Mughals considered themselves emperors of India. The mongols mixed with Chinese I'm sure, and the Mughals mixed with Indians. Hindu culture is the same as before, only our people are more aware and nationalistic about it than earlier times.

So it comes down to petty things like the symbol used in flag? Not on substantive parts of culture, which for us is derived from Dharmic identity? Ok your standards as a Chinese are different to mine then.

Pretty sure you read nothing of the history I explained to you. In each of the cases, democracy (wishes of the majority) was the foundation of acquiring those territories. In Kashmir it was stalled due to Pakistanis not obeying UN resolution, and substituted for a parliamentary mandate by assembly members.

Lets just give it up. You have your version of history, we have ours. Rather than going around in circles, chest thumping I'd rather agree to kindly disagree.

Btw Offtopic, but why have you stretched your eyes vertically in your Avatar picture to appear less slit eyed? Is it a complex or another reason?

 

[Fattyacids]

It's evident to me now, your knowledge of India's culture is zilch - shunya.

The mongols called themselves emperors of China, like Mughals considered themselves emperors of India. The mongols mixed with Chinese I'm sure, and the Mughals mixed with Indians. Hindu culture is the same as before, only our people are more aware and nationalistic about it than earlier times.

So it comes down to petty things like the symbol used in flag? Not on substantive parts of culture, which for us is derived from Dharmic identity? Ok your standards as a Chinese are different to mine then.

Pretty sure you read nothing of the history I explained to you. In each of the cases, democracy (wishes of the majority) was the foundation of acquiring those territories. In Kashmir it was stalled due to Pakistanis not obeying UN resolution, and substituted for a parliamentary mandate by assembly members.

Lets just give it up. You have your version of history, we have ours. Rather than going around in circles, chest thumping I'd rather agree to kindly disagree.

Btw Offtopic, but why have you stretched your eyes vertically in your Avatar picture to appear less slit eyed? Is it a complex or another reason?

Kublai Khan claimed the Chinese mandate of heaven, he didn't join with other Khanate. Babur was kicked out of Central Asia, he had no option of going back to Uzbekistan. That is the difference.

The flag is just an example. Qing ruled with Chinese civil system, culture and language. The imperial court are made up of Confucian scholars.

If there was true democracy, the princely states could have decided for themselves to be independent. Kashmir? UN mandated a referendum, India rejected it. Truly democratic!

There's no chest thumping, everything I said are historical facts.

My eyes are slit in my avatar, single eye lit. Only the eye ball are comically enlarged. Too much fairness cream impairs vision.