China's Front Line Fighters

[desimorty]

that is also impossible .

in the indo-china scenario, if PLAAF want to attack, her bomber just need to flew to tibet launch the cruise missiles and then go back, almost air-combat free.

however, if IA want to do some real damage on China. she needs to flew across Tibet and then launch the cruise missiles, that is at least 1000KM from india border. in this case, intercepters can leave if they are run out of ammo, but the escorts can never leave the bombers. eventually the escorts will run out of ammo and can only acts as decoys of the bombers.

on the other hand, if PLAAF decided to intercept the imcomming planes at all cost, no more hit and run. then most likely, this will turn into a dog fight. in this case, tactics and quantity is much much more imortant than quality.

I dont know how your scenerio is plausable. Tibet is a free area to fly in expecially if your flying at high altitudes, and the intercept time for Inaf would be far less. Those bombers would either get shot down or the cruise missiles will. If the Inaf dicided to strike the PLA the would in Tibet cutting apart their supply line. You seem to assume the PLA would have it easy when it come to air warfare against India.
The PLAAF wont resort to an offensive because much of their time would be left on the offensive because of Tibet and the high altitude. If the PLA wanted to strike India, they would with ballistic missiles. The one thing that is sure to work.
You assume things that are wrong. You assumed PLAAF can sustian operations easily in Tibet when in reality they are hampered with quantity! So how are they going to use there advantage? If the Inaf dicid to escalate the war they can bring the fight to Tibet but the reverse is nearly impossible infact sucidal given the friendly home front advantage of the Inaf.
And what makes you thing the PLAAF will be an offensive air force? when was the last time they droped bombs like the Inaf did to Pakistan in 1971 and Kargil?

 

[RAHUL INDIAN]

WoW, i started this topic last night and then went to sleep lal, and look what i have next morning surprising.. well what's the point of all this fight.. i think india and china aren't going for a war, are they..??

My question was just simple, i quoted China vs USA because we imagine that the way china is progressing with R&D and self reliance.. it is likely, that china will compete USA in future.. I was just thinking whether china has any fighter in service which can compete USA in today's war scenario or not..

Then i quoted China vs India, coz i wasn't expecting china to compete USA in today's war.. So at least i wanted to see what China can offer against India..

The thing is, my question is still there, though china is producing lots of things including J-XX, radars, missles which will be in service in next decade or so, but do china has any Plane in service right now, which can dominate Indian Air Force if the war starts today..?

I wasn't talking at all about number game. China ofc has bigger number in all fields of military hardware.. i was talking is there any fighter in chinese line up which can simply dominate Indian air force and from which indian AF can feel fear..? i think there isn't any such plane right now. We can expect such plane in future but given that india will also induct LCA, PakFa, MMRCA etc, the game will still ON and it will be interesting to see what we'll have in future..

However, according to past experience, India always likes to advertise its project alot to keep it pressure at neighboring countries, which i think is a part of India's international policies.. So by that, we all know what kind of future plans India have for next decade or 2..

While on the other hand, China don't usually publish its plans and rather prefers to keep them very secret. No one knows what Chinese are cracking until they announce it after making sure the job is done.. Even we aren't sure till date whether projects like J-XX really exist or not .. :/ So we can expect alot bigger picture in future that we can visualize today.. Perhaps we don't know what's the current status of J-XX, are there any other 5th Gen projects going on..? what other planes are exactly going through the process of up-gradations and what kind of up-gradations they are..


So in short, i can smell something lot more bigger from china in near future then its looking today.. I can say India is looking for Air Dominance in region in next decades, but who knows what Planes China have.. China is perhaps looking way above Indians are. China is going to compete USA and Russia in future so her goals and objectives must be hell high than that of India..

Goals of India are as high as u can imagine....
nothing suggests that Indian goals are lesser then the Chinese ones....
also CHina is secretive about evrythng.....that is coz it is copying evrhthng....and doesnt want to tell anyone till its all copied.....

and not telling is not equivalent to extremely high goals or super technology......

coz its not about goals, surely every country worth its salt has very high goals......

it is about the strategies and competency of ur Industrial-military complex and ability of ur scientists to innovate and collaboration with others which determines where u reach.....

as per what u can make of the situation and GROUND REALITY as of now, India is going to have overwhelming Air power superiority over China in future,more then what it is now by 2020....

The thing is, my question is still there, though china is producing lots of things including J-XX, radars, missles which will be in service in next decade or so, but do china has any Plane in service right now, which can dominate Indian Air Force if the war starts today..?
..

if that is ur only question...then there is straight answer...NO
this question has a obvious answer.

 

[chinapakistan]

I dont know how your scenerio is plausable. Tibet is a free area to fly in expecially if your flying at high altitudes, and the intercept time for Inaf would be far less.

I faild to understand your logic, I dont know what is the meaning of your high altitude? So, the whole earth is a free area to fly if your flying at high altitudes such as satellites(Well, maybe they are not so free now, bcoz there are 3 countries can shot it down now.).

Those bombers would either get shot down or the cruise missiles will. If the Inaf dicided to strike the PLA the would in Tibet cutting apart their supply line. You seem to assume the PLA would have it easy when it come to air warfare against India.
The PLAAF wont resort to an offensive because much of their time would be left on the offensive because of Tibet and the high altitude. If the PLA wanted to strike India, they would with ballistic missiles.

I totally cant understan what are you talking about.

If the Inaf dicid to escalate the war they can bring the fight to Tibet .

Oh, I c, you are joking. Sorry to tell you there are only one country can bring the fight to china's land, that is US(maybe russia).

 

[Jazzbot]

Goals of India are as high as u can imagine....
nothing suggests that Indian goals are lesser then the Chinese ones....
also CHina is secretive about evrythng.....that is coz it is copying evrhthng....and doesnt want to tell anyone till its all copied.....

and not telling is not equivalent to extremely high goals or super technology......

coz its not about goals, surely every country worth its salt has very high goals......

it is about the strategies and competency of ur Industrial-military complex and ability of ur scientists to innovate and collaboration with others which determines where u reach.....

as per what u can make of the situation and GROUND REALITY as of now, India is going to have overwhelming Air power superiority over China in future,more then what it is now by 2020....

interesting patriotic post, i truly appreciate. But the fact is, you can say china is doing copies that's why they try to hide things, but look at their copies, what thing is remaining which china haven't touched till date.. Fighter planes, Ships, sub marines, Radars, Avionics equipment etc.. they are just doing everything, mostly at their own with almost 90 % of their own resources.. That's called hard work and achievement.. and this is the true strength and power of chinese which we must accept.. At least un-like Pakistan and India, they are not dependent or relying other's assistance in everything which is in development process. Yes they also acquire assistance at some levels but it is very least.. Not like Pakistan and India who are always looking towards other countries for R & D and ToT etc..


And in the end, about my question, yes i got it that there isn't any dominant fighter in chinese line today. I didn't knew it before that's why i posted this thread..

 

[Moorkh]

that is also impossible .

in the indo-china scenario, if PLAAF want to attack, her bomber just need to flew to tibet launch the cruise missiles and then go back, almost air-combat free.

however, if IA want to do some real damage on China. she needs to flew across Tibet and then launch the cruise missiles, that is at least 1000KM from india border. in this case, intercepters can leave if they are run out of ammo, but the escorts can never leave the bombers. eventually the escorts will run out of ammo and can only acts as decoys of the bombers.

on the other hand, if PLAAF decided to intercept the imcomming planes at all cost, no more hit and run. then most likely, this will turn into a dog fight. in this case, tactics and quantity is much much more imortant than quality.

you are assuming that the IAF will be on the offence.

against china india has little hope of winning an offensive war. the IAF only needs to bomb the supply lines of the forces attacking india. this can be achieved with much greater ease compared to crossing tibet and bombing major chinese centres.

also cruise missiles are costly and the way you suggest them to be used, PLAAF will run out of them pretty quickly. if they intend to mantain pressure on india, they will have to fight in indian airspace or very close to it

 

[chinapakistan]

nothing suggests that Indian goals are lesser then the Chinese ones....
also CHina is secretive about evrythng.....that is coz it is copying evrhthng....and doesnt want to tell anyone till its all copied.....

Are you trying to say india are buying everything and tell the others they are domestic product.

 

[no_name]

I think that new multibarrel rocket system with 400km range that china developed might be important in an air war with India (not that I'm wishing for it) for striking at the air bases close to indo-chinese border. Then they don't have to risk their own aircraft and can use it to guard air space.

It forces India to either move their aircraft away from target areas or send them into china to seek and destroy those MRLS systems, where the PLAAF and ground SAM will be waiting

 

[LCA Tejas]

I think that new multibarrel rocket system with 400km range that china developed might be important in an air war with India (not that I'm wishing for it) for striking at the air bases close to indo-chinese border. Then they don't have to risk their own aircraft and can use it to guard air space

and?

 

[xuxu1457]

Goals of India are as high as u can imagine....
nothing suggests that Indian goals are lesser then the Chinese ones....
also CHina is secretive about evrythng.....that is coz it is copying evrhthng....and doesnt want to tell anyone till its all copied.....

and not telling is not equivalent to extremely high goals or super technology......

coz its not about goals, surely every country worth its salt has very high goals......

it is about the strategies and competency of ur Industrial-military complex and ability of ur scientists to innovate and collaboration with others which determines where u reach.....

as per what u can make of the situation and GROUND REALITY as of now, India is going to have overwhelming Air power superiority over China in future,more then what it is now by 2020....



if that is ur only question...then there is straight answer...NO
this question has a obvious answer.

Today's joke~~~We copied a car,but find it can fly
Compare future India with today China,India may catch up 2009's China in 2020,if you work hark~

 

[MZUBAIR]

China has a huge inventory of aircraft but majority of them are 2nd and 3rd gen just like India.

Here's a list:

J10 - 196
J7 (mig-21 copy) - 700
J8 - 300
Su-27 - 70
Su-30 - 100
J11 - 120
J7 bomber - 190
H6 (copy of Tupolev Tu-16) - 180

Total - 1700-2000 aircraft

The J-7 is a copy of Mig 21 and is a 3rd gen aircraft. China has a total of 900 of these aircraft. Also the J8 is also decades old aircraft and needs replacement.

The only advanced fighters are:

J10 - 4th gen
J11 - 4th gen
Su27 - 4th gen
Su30 - 4.5th gen

A total of 500 of these fighters. Quite a force if you ask me.

I see some chinese member comparing these to India. Although there is no comparison since the quantity of chinese planes is simple mindblowing. But India does have a little qualitative edge with its Su30 MKI which is more advanced than any chinese plane, and also Mirage 2000, Mig-29 are also in the 4th gen league.

To increase ur knowledge....China has different generations AC then wester AC generation AC

Western 2nd gen AC's = China 1st gen AC's (Chinees call thenm 1st gene)

Similarly
Western 3rd gen AC's = China 2nd gen AC's
Western 4th gen AC's = China 3rd gen AC's
Western 5th gen AC's = China 4th gen AC's

yup

overall numbers

China > India

Overall Quality

India > China

Overall Number of Quality Planes

India >> China

Over All:
India(advantage) over China

1)Coz China will not want to produce such fighters in such rates..and also if China looses 5 or more aircrafts for every 1 lost by India....then China will not want to continue with such a heavy loss.....
2)China cannot use all its air force against India....they have other frontiers also to defend...WHICH ARE WAY MORE TOUGHER AND IMPORTANT THEN against India....
3)Furthur Russia could supply India in case of war and so can other countries....to think they wont will be simply day dreaming.....

Now coming to China Fleet acc to weki (only 4th and above gen AC)

180 + J-10B (Western 4th gen AC)
50 + SU 27(Western 4th gen AC)
100 + SU 30 (Western 4.5th gen AC)
100 + J-11(Western 4th gen AC)

Almost 400+ 4th and 4.5th gen AC

Now comparing them to Indian fleet
60 Mig 29
120 Su-30 MKI
40 Mirage

Almost 250 + 4th and 4.5th gen AC


Staticitcs

Overall numbers

China > India

Overall Quality

China > India

Overall Number of Quality Planes

China >> India

Over All:
China Over India


Now .....many would have hard time to digest this ........
But this is reality who ever wt ever say on this forum or any forum in the world.

China is much superioir then India

 

[grey boy 2]

“For a country like India which has global aspirations and the third-largest standing armed forces in the world, it’s very embarrassing that over 70% of its military requirements have to be imported,” said a senior officer.

He said bringing in private players was very important for the aviation sector as India was not even contributing one per cent to the world market in the aerospace industry.

Asking the private companies to learn reverse engineering processes the way China did to develop most of its defence technologies, he said, "Forget about ethics. China has done all the reverse engineering. Has anyone ever had the courage to ask China why are you doing it. No one cares a hoot. If you can’t do it yourself, you should know how to reverse engineering.

"We have not been able to move forward for some reason or the other," Barbora added.

IAF Vice Chief Air Marshal P K Barbora: India can’t even match up against Pakistan in defense Military Strategy

 

[no_name]

and?

And I'm going to get dinner soon. It's 6:52 pm here

 

[RAHUL INDIAN]

interesting patriotic post, i truly appreciate. But the fact is, you can say china is doing copies that's why they try to hide things, but look at their copies, what thing is remaining which china haven't touched till date.. Fighter planes, Ships, sub marines, Radars, Avionics equipment etc.. they are just doing everything, mostly at their own with almost 90 % of their own resources.. That's called hard work and achievement.. and this is the true strength and power of chinese which we must accept.. At least un-like Pakistan and India, they are not dependent or relying other's assistance in everything which is in development process. Yes they also acquire assistance at some levels but it is very least.. Not like Pakistan and India who are always looking towards other countries for R & D and ToT etc..

i just was answering why China doesnt let many things to know...
also India has more open society and as India doesnt copy so obviously things like planes and all that is in public domain...as this is considered simple information...and nothing much to hide here...

but still the more secretive ones are there which will never be out.....

 

[Jazzbot]

“For a country like India which has global aspirations and the third-largest standing armed forces in the world, it’s very embarrassing that over 70% of its military requirements have to be imported,” said a senior officer.

He said bringing in private players was very important for the aviation sector as India was not even contributing one per cent to the world market in the aerospace industry.

Asking the private companies to learn reverse engineering processes the way China did to develop most of its defence technologies, he said, "Forget about ethics. China has done all the reverse engineering. Has anyone ever had the courage to ask China why are you doing it. No one cares a hoot. If you can’t do it yourself, you should know how to reverse engineering.

"We have not been able to move forward for some reason or the other," Barbora added.

IAF Vice Chief Air Marshal P K Barbora: India can’t even match up against Pakistan in defense Military Strategy

nice, we all appreciate china's reverse engineering skillz, they are just mind blowing..

 

[RAHUL INDIAN]

Are you trying to say india are buying everything and tell the others they are domestic product.

troll....

I think that new multibarrel rocket system with 400km range that china developed might be important in an air war with India (not that I'm wishing for it) for striking at the air bases close to indo-chinese border. Then they don't have to risk their own aircraft and can use it to guard air space.

It forces India to either move their aircraft away from target areas or send them into china to seek and destroy those MRLS systems, where the PLAAF and ground SAM will be waiting

multibarrel rocket is offtopic here...

Today's joke~~~We copied a car,but find it can fly
Compare future India with today China,India may catch up 2009's China in 2020,if you work hark~

off topic........

yes u have a bigger economy than what...??
US,JAPAN has bigger then urs...
what is imp is all the US,JAPAN,INDIA,CHINA are big economies....

So US,JAPAN are developed and India, CHina are doing good....