China’s FC-31 has yet to prove itself a match for the US F-35 it copied

[antonius123]

Theer was a claim that J-31 can't be a copy of F-35 because its two engine. Thats exactly like saying that F-20 cant be a copy of F-5 because its 1 engine.

U miss my point.

F20 is a further development of F5, so it is not a copy at all, therefore F20 vs F5 is not the same case with J-31 vs F35
For northrop, they have their own patent, technology, design, knowhow of F5, then they should have no big deal to develop F5 double engine into single engine F20.

Copy mean : almost no original design.

If J-31 has no original design as it is a copy of F35, the shape / design should demonstrate resemblance.

If J-31 has different design, mean it is not copy anymore of F35.

If u add more engine, you need to re engineer the planform, center of gravity, aerodynamic etc. Adding by changing here and there, it cannot be said copy anymore. And that is assuming that J-31 is developed from F35, not from scratch.

Sir,

Modern or not---is as relative to engineering design as day is to night. China had no experience in the development of fighter aircraft. It got the fighter aircraft from Russia and made some modification here and there---and they were not on the scale to call development.

That is totally rubish and ignorant.

JF17, J-31 and J20 is other example of clear Chinese original design/development, resemble none.

In fact improving aircraft (J-6, J-11B) involve development also, and you will learn development through it. J11B is a different a/c compared to SU27, eventhough the shape is similar. The point is: if you can make a different a/c - you already have capability in developing the a/c.

Development happened when the Israelis gave them the design of the Levi for the J 10----when the Russians and ukranian engineers joined the Chinese aircraft industry and when boeing gave them the wing..

That is a rubbish accusation.

There is no evidence that Israel give Levi design to China.
The accusation that you read in the internet is simply prejudice, as western people think China can only do copy paste.

By comparing the LAVI vs J10 Shape, you should be able to see the major different in the design between them. Therefore without evidence, we can conclude that J10 is NOT a copy of LAVI design. The wing shape, dimension, etc already show the difference.

Accusing J10 as copy of LAVI is simply the same as accussing Airbus A330 is a copy of Boeing 737 just because the similarity of the planform

On a world scale---you call development when you design an F 15 or the F 16---the MIG 29's or the SU 27's---the planes that take your air force to the next plateau from the Phantoms and mig 21's and su25's---.

None of the older chinese aircraft took them to any higher plateau except keep them in the 60's technology. So---where was the development.

That rubbish.

You said none, but in fact J-8, J-9, JH7, JF17, J-10, J-20, J-31 already abundant example of milestone in China Aviation design, development/engineering.

Dont forget that west also accused USSR's Mig29 and SU27 as a copy of US F-15 Eagle.

Russia and china have gone different ways seeking stealth---where the Russians have depended on their engineers to do the job---the Chinese have utilized other assets to get to the top.

Thats totally rubish.

Do you still remember how west accused USSR's Mig29 and SU27 as a copy of US F-15 Eagle? and there is long list like: Tu144 (copy of Concorde), Blackjack (copy of B1), Buran (copy of challenger)? etc etc.

Do you think USSR never involve in technology stealing/espionage?

Do you know how many engineer that China has now, compared to Russian?
What make you think China the country that produce the largest number of patent, cannot design/develop advance plane? LOL

 

[MastanKhan]

U miss my point.

F20 is a further development of F5, so it is not a copy at all, therefore F20 vs F5 is not the same case with J-31 vs F35
For northrop, they have their own patent, technology, design, knowhow of F5, then they should have no big deal to develop F5 double engine into single engine F20.

Copy mean : almost no original design.

If J-31 has no original design as it is a copy of F35, the shape / design should demonstrate resemblance.

If J-31 has different design, mean it is not copy anymore of F35.

If u add more engine, you need to re engineer the planform, center of gravity, aerodynamic etc. Adding by changing here and there, it cannot be said copy anymore. And that is assuming that J-31 is developed from F35, not from scratch.



That is totally rubish and ignorant.

JF17, J-31 and J20 is other example of clear Chinese original design/development, resemble none.

In fact improving aircraft (J-6, J-11B) involve development also, and you will learn development through it. J11B is a different a/c compared to SU27, eventhough the shape is similar. The point is: if you can make a different a/c - you already have capability in developing the a/c.




That is a rubbish accusation.

There is no evidence that Israel give Levi design to China.
The accusation that you read in the internet is simply prejudice, as western people think China can only do copy paste.

By comparing the LAVI vs J10 Shape, you should be able to see the major different in the design between them. Therefore without evidence, we can conclude that J10 is NOT a copy of LAVI design. The wing shape, dimension, etc already show the difference.

Accusing J10 as copy of LAVI is simply the same as accussing Airbus A330 is a copy of Boeing 737 just because the similarity of the planform



That rubbish.

You said none, but in fact J-8, J-9, JH7, JF17, J-10, J-20, J-31 already abundant example of milestone in China Aviation design, development/engineering.

Dont forget that west also accused USSR's Mig29 and SU27 as a copy of US F-15 Eagle.




Thats totally rubish.

Do you still remember how west accused USSR's Mig29 and SU27 as a copy of US F-15 Eagle? and there is long list like: Tu144 (copy of Concorde), Blackjack (copy of B1), Buran (copy of challenger)? etc etc.

Do you think USSR never involve in technology stealing/espionage?

Do you know how many engineer that China has now, compared to Russian?
What make you think China the country that produce the largest number of patent, cannot design/develop advance plane? LOL

Dude,

with all these words "Rubbish " are you a janitor somewhere!!!

 

[seven7seven]

Indians do love to trawl the internet for "everything China makes is junk" articles.

Bottom line, F-35, and even F-22 are unproven platforms, so making comparisons with any Chinese platform that China will never disclose sensitive data about is absolutely pointless. Only until they take on one another in real combat will we know what is garbage and what is the top dog.

At least China have anything remotely viable for internet knuckleheads to make wild inferences about. Indians will just have to keep twiddling their thumbs and wait for Russians to tell them how much more they need to pay to be in their "joint venture" for PAK-FA..

 

[MastanKhan]

Indians do love to trawl the internet for "everything China makes is junk" articles.

Bottom line, F-35, and even F-22 are unproven platforms, so making comparisons with any Chinese platform that China will never disclose sensitive data about is absolutely pointless. Only until they take on one another in real combat will we know what is garbage and what is the top dog.

At least China have anything remotely viable for internet knuckleheads to make wild inferences about. Indians will just have to keep twiddling their thumbs and wait for Russians to tell them how much more they need to pay to be in their "joint venture" for PAK-FA..

Hi,

F22 and F35 have been manufactured by conglomerates that have over the years given proven and tested products.

Actually there are those that will assess the information of both the sides and will tell you what the end results would be in combat. For the U S military---it is not a myth.

 

[gambit]

Copy mean : almost no original design.

No, it is not. The word 'copy' have several contexts that depends on usage at the particular time and/or about a particular item in discussion.

One context is:

- imitate the style or behaviour of.

When we built the F-18 Super Hornet, we did very much copied the shape/style from the original and smaller legacy F-18, and we endowed the SH version with better sub-systems.

In biology, the formal use of 'clone' is precise, which is genetic duplication. But in informal use as in popular vernacular, if a few items exhibits similar characteristics, especially in the visual realm, the word 'clone' is acceptable and even non-technical people would recognize the different contexts.

We are not saying the F-35 is 'copy' of the Wright Flyer because both aircrafts have wings. Under detailed engineering examinations, their differences are too great, not only at the visual level but also down to their respective genetic contents. But there is no denying the truth that everyone has at least suspicions that China, who previously struggled with manufacturing domestic versions of Soviet/Russian imports, all of a sudden skipped one generation and produced the J-20 and J-31 without assist in some ways.

Is the J-31's radome shape an original Chinese design ? Absolutely not. It maybe of Chinese manufacturing, but there is no doubt that it was INSPIRED by American 'stealth' research and development. I have already explained in reasonable technical details, without giving away any technical secrets, on why the F-22's and F-35's radomes are shaped that way. That shape did not came from nothing but the results of thousands of man-hours of lab and field work and that shape was effective. What the Chinese engineers did was took the final product, did their own verification, and probably reshape the original shape a little bit to fit the J-20's and the J-31's designs. In effect, the Chinese engineers copied the Americans' final product. The Chinese engineers did not take the typical radome shape and slowly rework it under repeated radar measurement. They took what the Americans produced and applied known radar measurement techniques to fit their own aircrafts.

The J-31 may not be a genetic clone of the F-35, but it is very much a copy of it.

 

[boomslang]

'China’s FC-31 has yet to prove itself...'



Along with all their other fighters.

 

[KIND]

Innovation and technological advancement in US defence is mainly through a spectacular DARPA funds program. It invites research on cutting edge topics from the Universities and other labs and within couple of years they produce tangible results. Such close association with knowledge centers and the end user is rarely seen else where. Funny thing is many project research are done by International grad students and headed by naturalized Americans but they only do a part of the massive projectwork going on from east coast to west coast.

 

[BoQ77]

I'm watching J-31 progress with keen.
It has potential to be a good fighter, but at this moment, there's still nothing makes difference.

 

[longlong]

'China’s FC-31 has yet to prove itself...'



Along with all their other fighters.

And along with F-22 and F-35.

 

[opruh]

'China’s FC-31 has yet to prove itself...'



Along with all their other fighters.

Agree, US so powerful, please give money to us Filipinos (US best allies).

 

[Viper0011.]

German newspaper Der Spiegel cited claims from former US intelligence contractor Edward Snowden earlier this month that China stole key design information on the US-built F-35 stealth fighter and used it to build their J-20 and FC-31 fighter jets.
China’s launch of the FC-31 could help build its reputation in the industry and attract potential international customers
The country has also launched the J-10 and the J-11, copies of the Lavi and Su-27 jets, in recent years.
China’s ability to launch the FC-31, which bears a striking resemblance to the F-35, in such a short period of time also shows its strength in the aerospace sector.
Fourthly, the FC-31’s ability to meet China’s combat readiness requirements remains to be seen.

China, even after copying / stealing the tech, is still about 8-10 years behind in producing the FC-31 in an apple to apple comparison (and that will never happen). The Chinese just don't have the industry for such advance machines, its being built right now.
By the time they turn these toys into operations, the US would be producing Sixth Gen jets, both manned and unmanned. Not sure how much these 75% copies of JSF (Earlier versions) would matter when the world would've moved on and away from the Stealth jet due to proliferation of anti-stealth weapons and detection methods!

 

[boomslang]

And along with F-22 and F-35.

We have a long history of designing and producing ( not copying) the finest fighters in the world. China.....not so much.

 

[seven7seven]

Hi,

F22 and F35 have been manufactured by conglomerates that have over the years given proven and tested products.

Actually there are those that will assess the information of both the sides and will tell you what the end results would be in combat. For the U S military---it is not a myth.

I agree Lockheed have pedigree in making good fighter jets but even established weapons manufacturers, like Lockheed, can make turkeys, especially when they chew off more than they can swallow.

F-22 has never been tested in real combat when there have been ample opportunities to do so, which can only mean there's a serious flaw with the F-22. The US only made very limited numbers too of F-22s which further strengthens the argument that the F-22 does not do what is says it can do.

F-35 you can say is at best a black-hole money-pit and at worst a complete and utter disaster that may never fully come to fruition as a viable 5th gen platform. Sure it's got great technology in it but the difficulties in melding it all into a cohesive fighter is widely documented and many issues still plague it.

So I stick by my earlier comments and say F-22 and F-35 are as unproven as any Chinese fighter jet China is currently developing. The so called experts that decide which jet is better are full of hot air and only making their best guess and usually very biased ones. China don't release any sensitive data about their systems so any comparison is guess work.

China, even after copying / stealing the tech, is still about 8-10 years behind in producing the FC-31 in an apple to apple comparison (and that will never happen). The Chinese just don't have the industry for such advance machines, its being built right now.
By the time they turn these toys into operations, the US would be producing Sixth Gen jets, both manned and unmanned. Not sure how much these 75% copies of JSF (Earlier versions) would matter when the world would've moved on and away from the Stealth jet due to proliferation of anti-stealth weapons and detection methods!

Just keep believing in your exceptionalism!

All empires fall because the people in them delude themselves that their supremacy is eternal.

China will just slowly and quietly work out how to kick your arrogant butts. They are patient people.

 

[longlong]

We have a long history of designing and producing ( not copying) the finest fighters in the world. China.....not so much.

Mind your words, Major. Please change the "have" to "had" and add "a lot" behind "copying".

Agree, US so powerful, please give money to us Filipinos (US best allies).

They give you the green paper, you give your fish and woman.

 

[Nan Yang]

Yet another problem with the F35.

New Small Diameter Bomb Doesn’t Fit Inside Marine’s F-35B | Defense Tech