China's days as workhouse of the world could be numbered

[fly2012]

But the real world here is that YOU live in the US under US labor laws while praising how China's corporate leadership exploit a sheeple labor force.

I don't praise exploitation but I think that's the best thing those farmer can have. I've lived in those kind of dorms when I was in college. Sure I'd prefer live in a single family house but dorms are stiil better than the rural life they had before. And their children will have a better chance for education so they will work in better conditions. It is ugly capitalism but every country goes through it. My boss's grand father dies in the copper mine here in Northwest in his 30s will his lung filled with copper dust. China did try socialism but it didn't work that well.

You probably don't own an iphone, but you do know that Foxconn also makes XBox and Dell/HP computers that you may type this message from.

 

[below_freezing]

The issue is not money but of course money talks. The issue is why does Apple and so many others have China does the hardware manufacturing: A sheeple labor force. And when you have this kind of obedient workers who are mostly rural immigrants desperate for a better life and the possibility of meeting something called a 'female', of course they will live in corporate dormitories readied to be woken from sleep, given bare rations, and put to work at any time. This is not the same thing as having an electronic leash called a 'pager', which FYI, I do have one, and that I work for a major NAND Flash memory manufacturer. I have called/paged people at 0200 hrs before. I have called/paged alternate when primaries do not respond for a variety of reasons. Dedicated employees are so because of internal motivations, but show me a single US manufacturer where employees are pretty much forced to live in corporate dormitories, have practically no rights, and are given rations before work.

But the real world here is that YOU live in the US under US labor laws while praising how China's corporate leadership exploit a sheeple labor force.

1. Foxconn's employees are about 40% women.

2. A rental property would cost 1000 RMB at the minimum in central Shenzhen and take 1/3 out of their salary. They're not forced to live in the dorms. Its just that when choosing between losing 1/3 your salary, and living in a free dorm with free food, you'll choose the free dorm and free food.

3. For high school graduates, its either stay on the farm, work on a low wage service job, or the factory, and the factory beats waitering and the farm.

---------- Post added at 05:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:38 PM ----------

I don't praise exploitation but I think that's the best thing those farmer can have. I've lived in those kind of dorms when I was in college. Sure I'd prefer live in a single family house but dorms are stiil better than the rural life they had before. And their children will have a better chance for education so they will work in better conditions. It is ugly capitalism but every country goes through it. My boss's grand father dies in the copper mine here in Northwest in his 30s will his lung filled with copper dust. China did try socialism but it didn't work that well.

You probably don't own an iphone, but you do know that Foxconn also makes XBox and Dell/HP computers that you may type this message from.

Single family house is rare even in Japan. They are inefficient in use of space and waste energy. There is no way China will ever make alot of single family houses so whoever dreams of owning a big plantation should leave the country. The dorms are pretty damn good compared to things you see in other developing countries, and even some developed ones (like coffin apartments in Tokyo).

 

[gambit]

I don't praise exploitation but I think that's the best thing those farmer can have. I've lived in those kind of dorms when I was in college. Sure I'd prefer live in a single family house but dorms are stiil better than the rural life they had before. And their children will have a better chance for education so they will work in better conditions. It is ugly capitalism but every country goes through it. My boss's grand father dies in the copper mine here in Northwest in his 30s will his lung filled with copper dust. China did try socialism but it didn't work that well.

You probably don't own an iphone, but you do know that Foxconn also makes XBox and Dell/HP computers that you may type this message from.

And this is the true reason why the US have been inundated with the lie that the American workforce are not 'competitive' to China. The lie must be made as believable as possible to cover the truth that China's economic success is based upon a cheap labor force and it is cheap in many ways, mostly cheap in value as a human being,

And no, I do not have an iPhone.

 

[fly2012]

And this is the true reason why the US have been inundated with the lie that the American workforce are not 'competitive' to China. The lie must be made as believable as possible to cover the truth that China's economic success is based upon a cheap labor force and it is cheap in many ways, mostly cheap in value as a human being,

And no, I do not have an iPhone.

Competitiveness means that you are either more skillful or you ask less for the same skill set. Americans have the best education system and resources so supposely they should have much better skills. Yet so many of them just party hard in the school while laughing at asian nerds probably including your kids who do study hard. And when they grow up, they are blaming coorperations for hiring cheaper Chinese with same skills and say they deserve a job. It is this kind of self entitlement that is destroying the United States.

Even without China, there's Vietnam, Phillipines and the list goes on and one.

Check the back of your computer, see whether they are made in China or other 3rd world countries.

 

[gambit]

Single family house is rare even in Japan. They are inefficient in use of space and waste energy. There is no way China will ever make alot of single family houses so whoever dreams of owning a big plantation should leave the country. The dorms are pretty damn good compared to things you see in other developing countries, and even some developed ones (like coffin apartments in Tokyo).

My house is 3000 sq/ft on 1/4 acre. That is 1500 sq/ft up and down. The basement is fully finished with a theater room, complete with a ceiling mounted projector and 100 in 16:9 wide screen aspect matte white area on the wall. The basement also have a bedroom, a 3/4 bath, and two storage rooms. Upstairs has three bedrooms, two full baths, a living room, a family room, and of course a kitchen. The garage is enough for two SUVs with an attached small work room where I park my bike. And the house has a central vac system.

Damn inefficient use of space and waste of energy that YOU will jump into in a heartbeat.

 

[gambit]

Competitiveness means that you are either more skillful or you ask less for the same skill set. Americans have the best education system and resources so supposely they should have much better skills. Yet so many of them just party hard in the school while laughing at asian nerds probably including your kids who do study hard. And when they grow up, they are blaming coorperations for hiring cheaper Chinese with same skills and say they deserve a job. It is this kind of self entitlement that is destroying the United States.

Even without China, there's Vietnam, Phillipines and the list goes on and one.

And yet by international metrics, the American workforce outperform the cheaper Chinese labor force by nearly 10-1, if we go by worker figure. I am not a fan of labor unions, they have served their purpose and organized labor unions as we have today in the US should be either reformed or done away with. However, what labor unions at least have taught US is that we should treat workers with dignity and humanity regardless of borders. What Apple want is the flexibility to dominate the US market by leveraging the flexibility of the cheap Chinese labor force and in this Apple succeeded.

Check the back of your computer, see whether they are made in China or other 3rd world countries.

I built my own from components. But I agree with your point.

 

[fly2012]

My house is 3000 sq/ft on 1/4 acre. That is 1500 sq/ft up and down. The basement is fully finished with a theater room, complete with a ceiling mounted projector and 100 in 16:9 wide screen aspect matte white area on the wall. The basement also have a bedroom, a 3/4 bath, and two storage rooms. Upstairs has three bedrooms, two full baths, a living room, a family room, and of course a kitchen. The garage is enough for two SUVs with an attached small work room where I park my bike. And the house has a central vac system.

Damn inefficient use of space and waste of energy that YOU will jump into in a heartbeat.

He meant it is not efficient in Asian cities.

Do you know that because of our lifestyle (I am "guilty" here as well), US consumes 40% or the world energy. Imagine if all developing countries live like this. So indeed it is not efficent. The truth is our wealth is based on the exploitation of the killing of native Indians and the exploitation of poor 3rd world countries. I find it is quite amuzed that you brag about your big house while pointing fingers to China at the same time. Hypocrisy in its fine form.

 

[fd24]

My house is 3000 sq/ft on 1/4 acre. That is 1500 sq/ft up and down. The basement is fully finished with a theater room, complete with a ceiling mounted projector and 100 in 16:9 wide screen aspect matte white area on the wall. The basement also have a bedroom, a 3/4 bath, and two storage rooms. Upstairs has three bedrooms, two full baths, a living room, a family room, and of course a kitchen. The garage is enough for two SUVs with an attached small work room where I park my bike. And the house has a central vac system.

Damn inefficient use of space and waste of energy that YOU will jump into in a heartbeat.

I didnt realize this thread was about "Gambits showing what kind of house he lives in" - why can you not be on topic. If someone is off topic why do you answer?

China will continue as it is and continue the growth. They are doing exceptionally well and focusing their industry lately on quality.

 

[gambit]

He meant it is not efficient in Asian cities.

Do you know that because of our lifestyle (I am "guilty" here as well), US consumes 40% or the world energy. Imagine if all developing countries live like this. So indeed it is not efficent.

To put it bluntly: So what? This is a grossly misleading argument because it presume 'energy' is finite and that in order for one country to use it must take away from others. You are free to feel as guilty as you like. I do not and will not.

The truth is our wealth is based on the exploitation of the killing of native Indians...

Please spare me this line. Wealth is not dependent upon the killing of anyone.

...and the exploitation of poor 3rd world countries.

How? The US have never been a colonial power. In order to exploit 3rd world countries, one must be a colonial power to keep the labor force in a country at a barely subsistence level of existence, given only a palliative economy to ease the people's pain but never cure their economic ills and raise them out of said hole. Instead, the US gave Japan, South Korea and Taiwan developmental economies and look at them today. Dealing with cruel and exploitative dictatorships from those countries is a different issue.

I find it is quite amuzed that you brag about your big house while pointing fingers to China at the same time. Hypocrisy in its fine form.

It is hypocritical only if I do not desire the same for the Chinese. But it is amusing to see you continues to live here.

 

[fd24]

He meant it is not efficient in Asian cities.

Do you know that because of our lifestyle (I am "guilty" here as well), US consumes 40% or the world energy. Imagine if all developing countries live like this. So indeed it is not efficent. The truth is our wealth is based on the exploitation of the killing of native Indians and the exploitation of poor 3rd world countries. I find it is quite amuzed that you brag about your big house while pointing fingers to China at the same time. Hypocrisy in its fine form.

Do you always believe what people post on here - especially an American flag bearer - the country that has created so much havoc in history - just look at Vietnam - Iraq - Afghanistan etc.
They put snippets of news out attempting to derail the success of China in a desperate attempt to delay their takeover as number one currency in the world...

 

[fly2012]

How? The US have never been a colonial power. In order to exploit 3rd world countries, one must be a colonial power to keep the labor force in a country at a barely subsistence level of existence, given only a palliative economy to ease the people's pain but never cure their economic ills and raise them out of said hole. Instead, the US gave Japan, South Korea and Taiwan developmental economies and look at them today. Dealing with cruel and exploitative dictatorships from those countries is a different issue.

.

I thought we are talking about exploitation on Chinese worker here. Yet no one colonizes China at this point. Do you think Chinese government is the guilty part while 90% of the iPhone profit comes back to US? No, nowadays to exploit, you don't need to colonize. We can get bloody diamond, gold from Africa and sweaty electronic gadget from developing countries without applying force.

Greed is the nature of capitalism and it is both a bless and a curse. As I said, every country has to go through this ugly phase, including US, including Japan. It is a global economy and everyone is part of this "evil" system. Yes I live in US because I earn more money here (I can make similar kind of money in China now, just too lazy to move), and I don't try to rid on a moral high house.

 

[gambit]

I thought we are talking about exploitation on Chinese worker here.

Was it YOU who brought up the American Indians?

Here is the devastating truth to your liberal misconception about the 'genocide' of the native peoples of the New World in order to make way for the Europeans: Nomadism DO NOT produce civilizations.

According to records made by the early European colonists, they lived and traveled in the New World for days and weeks before they encountered any natives. Modern archeology reveals or discovered that the majority of the Amerinds were nomadic tribes. In order to have civilizations, you must take roots and become farmers and ranchers. You must form static communities while at the same time send missionaries and explorers to reveals yourselves and locations of your communities to form bonds with other peoples. The only genuine native civilization in the New World was the Mayans as in 2012 Doomsday Mayans. In the northern part of the New World, the majority of the natives were nomadic tribes who took pains to avoid each other, not each other's land, although they may respect each other's hunting grounds. Most of them often lived on the edge of hunger, if not outright starvation. Most relied on oral histories, not written records, or at best petroglyphs, to make themselves known to each other.

This does not mean it is justified for the early European colonists and later Americans to do what they did to the natives, and it was a tragedy, but what it scientifically mean is that there were no major civilizations and population groups in the North American continent to the point where they clashed with the foreigners to compete for natural resources. The Europeans was only one major population group willing to take roots and exploit the land and it was the land that created the wealth.

Yet no one colonizes China at this point. Do you think Chinese government is the guilty part while 90% of the iPhone profit comes back to US? No, nowadays to exploit, you don't need to colonize. We can get bloody diamond, gold from Africa and sweaty electronic gadget from developing countries without applying force.

Fine, so we can get things without the use of force. What are they? Who are enablers? By what credible metrics do you have to say X percentage of profits 'comes back' to the US? Do you mean that profits from global sales of the iPhone go to the Apple corporate via China?

Greed is the nature of capitalism and it is both a bless and a curse. As I said, every country has to go through this ugly phase, including US, including Japan. It is a global economy and everyone is part of this "evil" system. Yes I live in US because I earn more money here (I can make similar kind of money in China now, just too lazy to move), and I don't try to rid on a moral high house.

Spare me the cliche. This is the kind of generalized argument that is not an argument but 'filler' material intends to make one more intelligent and sophisticated than one really is.

 

[Götterdämmerung]

My house is 3000 sq/ft on 1/4 acre. That is 1500 sq/ft up and down. The basement is fully finished with a theater room, complete with a ceiling mounted projector and 100 in 16:9 wide screen aspect matte white area on the wall. The basement also have a bedroom, a 3/4 bath, and two storage rooms. Upstairs has three bedrooms, two full baths, a living room, a family room, and of course a kitchen. The garage is enough for two SUVs with an attached small work room where I park my bike. And the house has a central vac system.

Damn inefficient use of space and waste of energy that YOU will jump into in a heartbeat.

There is a German word describing my feeling the best after reading this post: fremdschämen

 

[IND151]

@ post 5, last para : d u know that Nokias largest mobile phone production plant is in India? d u know that micromax, an indian mobgile producer company , is 12 largest in world? jkmm pqghppdemttmmmnmndda

 

[Abingdonboy]

This is an entirely man made/regime made problem. When it suited them to have a one child policy they did it now they are trying to reverse the process which is a gargantuan process. The fact is many Chinese don't want to have more than one child now due to costs and social factors, the damage could very well already be done. And even if the process could be started it would take multiple decades to come to fruition, the question many are asking now is- "will China become old before it becomes rich?"