China’s airlines will need 8,700 new planes in next 20 years, Boeing says, costing US$1.47 trillion

[DJ_Viper]

there is labor and there is manpower available. they do not hire locals with experience of working for nokia and ericsson, but go for imported chinese labor, and pay them through the nose. we used to say us-aid goes back to usa through NGOs, purchases and labor, but that was still aid, and free. this is loan, that has to be repaid, and is still going to the chinese not to the pakistanis, through construction contracts, labour, machinery imports etc.

I know and agree with you. The Chinese want dominance and full control without saying it. With the US, it wants relationships and mutual understanding. But with the US, aid is aid. Not loans that one is paying back, with high interest AND 75-80% of the loan's related work is also being done by the Chinese labor. This is unfair to the host nation and at the end, they are essentially in a cage. It's the government's responsibility to ensure it's people are getting employed.

 

[MH.Yang]

CPEC is loan with effing high conditions, which our leaders were too blind or incompetent to see.

Oh we can rely on our strength, the issue is the market for the products that are manufactured as a result of this. what DJ Viper is saying is this: will China accept Pakistani manufactured goods? Will China prefer them over European vendors?

CEPC is a project convened by the Chinese govt to participate in a number of Chinese enterprises, including state-owned and private enterprises. It is impossible for the Chinese govt to require all enterprises to participate in investment free of charge. Only 20% of CEPC's investment is loans and 80% comes from Chinese govt direct investment. Moreover, the repayment period of these loans is 20 years, and the interest rate is 2.34%. If govt assistance is deducted, the interest rate is only 2%. Do you think this is a high interest rate loan?
Moreover, these loans and aid have no political conditions attached.

https://m.guancha.cn/internation/2020_05_22_551402.shtml

 

[DJ_Viper]

China unilaterally gives Pakistan 0 tariff treatment.
When Pakistani goods enter China, the tariff is 0. When Chinese goods enter Pakistan, the tariff is 5-35%.
In 2020, China's total consumption was 39.2 trillion CNY, six times that of India.
This means that enterprises investing in Pakistan can have a market six times larger than India. This has greatly enhanced Pakistan's attractiveness to foreign investment.
Plz tell me what better preferential treatment can China give Pakistan? Negative tariff? Pakistan is the only country that China has given unilateral zero tariff.

These are some impressive statements. Please provide a list of Pakistani products going into China and Chinese products going into Pakistan. I'd love to see an Apples to Apples comparison. If what you are saying was actually true, Pakistan's economy wouldn't be on a verge of collapse. It is so due to the destruction of Pakistan's economy through flooding of Chinese goods and not much going to China in return. The trade balance is a LOT more than just "one way". It's like abusively one way, destroying Pakistan's remaining economy day by day.

Pakistan already manufactures parts that go into Boeing and Airbus Aircraft

I am aware of it. That's why I was asking my Chinese friends that since there is "stronger than Steel and sweeter than Honey" friendship, shouldn't they allow Pakistan to work on a few parts manufacturing so that Pakistan has a long term economic base to support Chinese aviation industry and can generate revenue like allies do all across the globe?

 

[MH.Yang]

These are some impressive statements. Please provide a list of Pakistani products going into China and Chinese products going into Pakistan. I'd love to see an Apples to Apples comparison. If what you are saying was actually true, Pakistan's economy wouldn't be on a verge of collapse. It is so due to the destruction of Pakistan's economy through flooding of Chinese goods and not much going to China in return. The trade balance is a LOT more than just "one way". It's like abusively one way, destroying Pakistan's remaining economy day by day.


I am aware of it. That's why I was asking my Chinese friends that since there is "stronger than Steel and sweeter than Honey" friendship, shouldn't they allow Pakistan to work on a few parts manufacturing so that Pakistan has a long term economic base to support Chinese aviation industry and can generate revenue like allies do all across the globe?

Pakistan exports 313 kinds of goods to China, all of which are tariff free.

https://baijiahao.baidu.com/s?id=1631041662325327496&wfr=spider&for=pc&searchword=%E4%B8%AD%E5%9B%BD%20%E5%B7%B4%E5%9F%BA%E6%96%AF%E5%9D%A6%20%E9%9B%B6%E5%85%B3%E7%A8%8E

These are some impressive statements. Please provide a list of Pakistani products going into China and Chinese products going into Pakistan. I'd love to see an Apples to Apples comparison. If what you are saying was actually true, Pakistan's economy wouldn't be on a verge of collapse. It is so due to the destruction of Pakistan's economy through flooding of Chinese goods and not much going to China in return. The trade balance is a LOT more than just "one way". It's like abusively one way, destroying Pakistan's remaining economy day by day.


I am aware of it. That's why I was asking my Chinese friends that since there is "stronger than Steel and sweeter than Honey" friendship, shouldn't they allow Pakistan to work on a few parts manufacturing so that Pakistan has a long term economic base to support Chinese aviation industry and can generate revenue like allies do all across the globe?

C919 is still in the primary stage of production, and even China's production line is immature, so it is impossible to outsource temporarily.

 

[DJ_Viper]

Pakistan exports 313 kinds of goods to China, all of which are tariff free.

https://baijiahao.baidu.com/s?id=1631041662325327496&wfr=spider&for=pc&searchword=%E4%B8%AD%E5%9B%BD%20%E5%B7%B4%E5%9F%BA%E6%96%AF%E5%9D%A6%20%E9%9B%B6%E5%85%B3%E7%A8%8E

View attachment 779850


C919 is still in the primary stage of production, and even China's production line is immature, so it is impossible to outsource temporarily.

Thanks. You still didn't answer it completely with comparisons that matter. How many items CHINA exports to Pakistan and what are they worth? On this very forum, there are topics where China is sending even truck drivers and crane drivers to Pakistan from China, instead of using the local population and helping the Pakistani society. Please provide details.

 

[MH.Yang]

Thanks. You still didn't answer it completely with comparisons that matter. How many items CHINA exports to Pakistan and what are they worth? On this very forum, there are topics where China is sending even truck drivers and crane drivers to Pakistan from China, instead of using the local population and helping the Pakistani society. Please provide details.

As I have told you, the starting salary of workers stationed abroad by Chinese enterprises is 240k CNY ($37500), which is very high. If there is have a choice, Chinese enterprises will not choose Chinese workers. No enterprise wants to provide its own cost. They always try to choose cheaper local workers. Chinese enterprises, like American enterprises, also want to maximize profits.
China is Pakistan's largest importer, but Pakistan's largest exporter is the United States. Pakistanis should think about how to use the advantage of zero tariff to expand exports to China. China has given Pakistan the greatest preferential treatment.

 

[DJ_Viper]

As I have told you, the starting salary of workers stationed abroad by Chinese enterprises is 240k CNY ($37500), which is very high. If there is have a choice, Chinese enterprises will not choose Chinese workers. No enterprise wants to provide its own cost. They always try to choose cheaper local workers. Chinese enterprises, like American enterprises, also want to maximize profits.
China is Pakistan's largest importer, but Pakistan's largest exporter is the United States. Pakistanis should think about how to use the advantage of zero tariff to expand exports to China. China has given Pakistan the greatest preferential treatment.

The interesting part that you aren't bringing up is that the list of free tariff items, is a joke. China doesn't get those items from overseas and no one can compete with the cheaper labor. Thus, the US is the biggest trade importer from Pakistan and will remain so. China shouldn't worry about paying $ 35K to it's labor and pay 2-3 laborers from Pakistan within this much and help grow Pakistan's lower class to middle class and help this nation. Take a look at what we've done for India since 1995, as we wanted to help them. Now, both the nations are reaping "ally" benefits. China needs to follow the same model to help Pakistan out.

 

[MH.Yang]

The interesting part that you aren't bringing up is that the list of free tariff items, is a joke. China doesn't get those items from overseas and no one can compete with the cheaper labor. Thus, the US is the biggest trade importer from Pakistan and will remain so. China shouldn't worry about paying $ 35K to it's labor and pay 2-3 laborers from Pakistan within this much and help grow Pakistan's lower class to middle class and help this nation. Take a look at what we've done for India since 1995, as we wanted to help them. Now, both the nations are reaping "ally" benefits. China needs to follow the same model to help Pakistan out.

What has the USA done for India? What infrastructure projects have been invested? What roads have been built? What jobs have been created?



Do you know why the United States is the largest exporter of many countries in the world this year? Because the United States has issued more than $3 trillion, Americans use these dollars to buy assets around the world. This is also the reason for inflation in Pakistan, India and other countries this year. Inflation is exported by the USA.

Do you know why China is the largest importer of Pakistan? Because China has exchange 20 billion CNY with Pakistan at the beginning of each year. Pakistan's use of these CNY imports will not be affected by the depreciation of PKR, these CNY is their last chip to protect themselves.

China extends currency swap deal with Pakistan

The People's Bank of China, the country's central bank, said today it had extended a currency swap agreement with the State Bank of Pakistan.

m.economictimes.com

 

[DJ_Viper]

What has the USA done for India? What infrastructure projects have been invested? What roads have been built? What jobs have been created?

Do you know why the United States is the largest exporter of many countries in the world this year? Because the United States has issued more than $3 trillion, Americans use these dollars to buy assets around the world. This is also the reason for inflation in Pakistan, India and other countries this year. Inflation is exported by the USA.

Do you know why China is the largest importer of Pakistan? Because China has exchange 20 billion CNY with Pakistan at the beginning of each year. Pakistan's use of these CNY imports will not be affected by the depreciation of PKR, these CNY is their last chip to protect themselves.

LOL, now we are writing posts without any evidence. Allow me to tell you what we did for India. Back in the 90's, this was discussed with India's PM Rao and Clinton to create a strategic alliance between the two countries. Since then, the dotcom boom came and massive amounts of Indian talent was brought into the US. If the US wanted to, it could've spent a few billion to train Americans on IT stuff but it wanted to stand by India. Today, there is almost $ 200 billion (much more unaccounted for due to small mid-sized) goes through the system due to that strategic alliance. That IT sector investments in India has established her (high paying, average salary $ 100K in US and $ 4000 in India). When you shell out a few trillions for an ally to establish their economy, you'll have a strong ally with you. It's easy to put in $ 10 billion and then suck that money out like blood with interest rates, principle and then putting restrictions on ONLY putting Chinese labor to work.

This is WHY not one nation would go to war with China. Take a look at WWII and post WWII, the US will always have allies and now, even stronger with UK, Australia, India, Vietnam, etc. Not ONE nation around the SCS is happy with China outside of North Korea (LOL). This is what happens when you use your investments to ONLY benefit you and treat the partner nation as a colony.

 

[MH.Yang]

LOL, now we are writing posts without any evidence. Allow me to tell you what we did for India. Back in the 90's, this was discussed with India's PM Rao and Clinton to create a strategic alliance between the two countries. Since then, the dotcom boom came and massive amounts of Indian talent was brought into the US. If the US wanted to, it could've spent a few billion to train Americans on IT stuff but it wanted to stand by India. Today, there is almost $ 200 billion (much more unaccounted for due to small mid-sized) goes through the system due to that strategic alliance. That IT sector investments in India has established her (high paying, average salary $ 100K in US and $ 4000 in India). When you shell out a few trillions for an ally to establish their economy, you'll have a strong ally with you. It's easy to put in $ 10 billion and then suck that money out like blood with interest rates, principle and then putting restrictions on ONLY putting Chinese labor to work.

This is WHY not one nation would go to war with China. Take a look at WWII and post WWII, the US will always have allies and now, even stronger with UK, Australia, India, Vietnam, etc. Not ONE nation around the SCS is happy with China outside of North Korea (LOL). This is what happens when you use your investments to ONLY benefit you and treat the partner nation as a colony.

In other words, the USA' help to India is to send the talents cultivated by India using Indian educational resources to the USA.
This is not help, this is the USA colonizing India.

 

[nang2]

In other words, the USA' help to India is to send the talents cultivated by India using Indian educational resources to the USA.
This is not help, this is the USA colonizing India.

You got the direction wrong. If someone is going from A to B, he is colonizing B, not A.

 

[MH.Yang]

You got the direction wrong. If someone is going from A to B, he is colonizing B, not A.

You got the direction wrong. If someone is going from A to B, he is colonizing B, not A.

Stealing wealth is colonization, and stealing talents is also colonization

 

[nang2]

Stealing wealth is colonization, and stealing talents is also colonization

Let's not get carried away. Each English word has its distinct meaning. Don't bastardize it, please.

 

[applesauce]

Ok, let's start. I KNOW, Pakistan was building some parts for commercial aircraft and that would mean Boeing. So why can't China establish industry in Pakistan? The US did that for India and the tech Industry is essentially now owned by India in the US. This was all carefully planned out to establish India's middle class economy and to ensure it's growth to counter China. But why something similar can't happen with China-Pak?

lol india? tech industry? what tech industry? they're a large call center at best. no tech of note comes out of india, this is a country that cant even build its own guns and has to order them from russia.

indian growth has been a disappointment for ages, even before covid indian gdp growth has dropped to under 5%, total GDP even after this year(2021) still won't be back to 2019 levels.

As for pakistan, again the likes of C919 isnt a charity case, boeing went to china, and other countries because they found cheaper costs for the same product. and once again, there is no directive that says the planes must be 100% chinese, if pakistan can make the same quality for a lower price than chinese companies can, then they should submit a tender or inquire about the possibility of providing the products, there is no reason china would say no. if they are looking for economic growth in general or setting up new industries, then they can seek aid or other economic agreements, once again i remind you,if pakistan wants it, they have to be the one to ask.

 

[MH.Yang]

Let's not get carried away. Each English word has its distinct meaning. Don't bastardize it, please.

Oh, sorry. My English is very poor. My mother tongue is Chinese.