China’s airlines will need 8,700 new planes in next 20 years, Boeing says, costing US$1.47 trillion

[DJ_Viper]

TF?

China "owes" pakistan nothing. they are friendly for sure, but one should never expect to be given things for free, pakistan is a friend of china, not some colony of china. As far as i know there is no directive that says the planes must be all built in china, heck the engines are american. so then the question isn't "Why can't China outsource a few of parts manufacturing to Pakistan", the question is, did Pakistani companies offer those seats and flooring to the plane makers in china or even ask about the potential to do so? moreover can they really complete? making military jets is not the same as making a civilian jet, otherwise the soviets/russians should have a massive civilian jet industry.

Ok, let's start. I KNOW, Pakistan was building some parts for commercial aircraft and that would mean Boeing. So why can't China establish industry in Pakistan? The US did that for India and the tech Industry is essentially now owned by India in the US. This was all carefully planned out to establish India's middle class economy and to ensure it's growth to counter China. But why something similar can't happen with China-Pak?

Just look at AUKUS and you will get your answer as to what matter most at the end of the day.

I know AUKUS and all details about it. I am just shocked to see the "stronger than Iron" friendship to Chinese means destruction of Pakistan's economy. That's not friendship or allies. It's one way in China's favor....

 

[MH.Yang]

Ok, let's start. I KNOW, Pakistan was building some parts for commercial aircraft and that would mean Boeing. So why can't China establish industry in Pakistan? The US did that for India and the tech Industry is essentially now owned by India in the US. This was all carefully planned out to establish India's middle class economy and to ensure it's growth to counter China. But why something similar can't happen with China-Pak?


I know AUKUS and all details about it. I am just shocked to see the "stronger than Iron" friendship to Chinese means destruction of Pakistan's economy. That's not friendship or allies. It's one way in China's favor....

China buys aircraft from Boeing and Airbus. These planes are made in Europe and the USA.
Why do you think China can outsource some parts of the aircraft to Pakistan?
Isn't that the right of Americans and Europeans?

 

[DJ_Viper]

China buys aircraft from Boeing and Airbus. These planes are made in Europe and the USA.
Why do you think China can outsource some parts of the aircraft to Pakistan?
Isn't that the right of Americans and Europeans?

China is starting to build it's own air craft manufacturing. Both you and I know that. In fact, Boeing and Airbus will start to have reduce share as things move forward like it's with everything China does. So when COMAC and other support organizations will have literally millions of parts to build for the next 40 years, a few can be given to Pakistan to build and help her grow her economy. That's what a real ally would do.

 

[MH.Yang]

China is starting to build it's own air craft manufacturing. Both you and I know that. In fact, Boeing and Airbus will start to have reduce share as things move forward like it's with everything China does. So when COMAC and other support organizations will have literally millions of parts to build for the next 40 years, a few can be given to Pakistan to build and help her grow her economy. That's what a real ally would do.

Let's do CPEC well first. There are few companies use C919 in China.
Pakistan is gradually entering the aircraft manufacturing industry through of JF17 project. If they can, China is certainly willing to help them.

 

[khansaheeb]

China’s airlines will need 8,700 new planes in next 20 years, Boeing says, costing US$1.47 trillion

• Chinese airlines will need 8,700 new planes through 2040, 1.2 per cent higher than Boeing’s previous prediction of 8,600 planes made last year
• China’s domestic aviation market, although still vulnerable to sporadic local Covid-19 outbreaks, has more or less rebounded to pre-coronavirus levels

View attachment 779636

Boeing projected a need for nearly 6,500 new single-aisle planes over the next 20 years, while China’s widebody fleet, including passenger and cargo models, will require 1,850 new planes, accounting for 20 per cent of total deliveries. Photo: AFP


Boeing raised its forecast slightly on Thursday for China’s aircraft demand for the next 20 years, betting on the country’s quick rebound from the coronavirus and future growth in its budget airline sector and e-commerce.
Chinese airlines will need 8,700 new planes through 2040, 1.2 per cent higher than its previous prediction of 8,600 planes made last year.
Those planes would be worth US$1.47 trillion based on list prices, the US plane maker said in a statement.

China will need US$1.47 trillion worth of new planes by 2040, Boeing says

Chinese airlines will need 8,700 new planes through 2040, 1.2 per cent higher than Boeing’s previous prediction of 8,600 planes made last year.

www.scmp.com

I hope they spend a few trillion on pilot training too. The flight I landed in today hit the tarmac with such force I must of been thrown at least 1 foot in the air with the seatbelt on. Surprised the 737 didn't start wobbling.

 

[S.Y.A]

So why can't China establish industry in Pakistan?

Like the guy pointed out, china looks out for chinese interests, its the Pakistanis who believe in this higher than himalayas crap. t

hey are flooding our markets, and they employ tonnes of chinese in their companies as compared to pakistanis. even when skilled manpower is available. promise one salary, and then give another saying that they are being charged for food and lodging. chinese companies, and chinese govt are the biggest frauds. Pakistanis are just too blind to see it yet, thats why I was against CPEC, but back then anyone who said anything against it was considered a "traitor"

 

[MH.Yang]

Like the guy pointed out, china looks out for chinese interests, its the Pakistanis who believe in this higher than himalayas crap. t

hey are flooding our markets, and they employ tonnes of chinese in their companies as compared to pakistanis. even when skilled manpower is available. promise one salary, and then give another saying that they are being charged for food and lodging. chinese companies, and chinese govt are the biggest frauds. Pakistanis are just too blind to see it yet, thats why I was against CPEC, but back then anyone who said anything against it was considered a "traitor"

Do you know that China unilaterally gives Pakistan 0 tariff treatment?
When Pakistani goods enter China, the tariff is 0. When Chinese goods enter Pakistan, the tariff is 5-35%. This has greatly enhanced Pakistan's attractiveness to foreign investment.
Do you know that there is a currency swap agreement between China and Pakistan? China and Pakistan exchange 20 billion CNY every year, which means that Pakistan is supported by 20 billion CNY foreign exchange reserves every year, and the CNY being more stable than USD. The PRK obtained by China is not very useful.

 

[DJ_Viper]

Like the guy pointed out, china looks out for chinese interests, its the Pakistanis who believe in this higher than himalayas crap. t

hey are flooding our markets, and they employ tonnes of chinese in their companies as compared to pakistanis. even when skilled manpower is available. promise one salary, and then give another saying that they are being charged for food and lodging. chinese companies, and chinese govt are the biggest frauds. Pakistanis are just too blind to see it yet, thats why I was against CPEC, but back then anyone who said anything against it was considered a "traitor"

On another thread, I pointed out that China expects about half a million Chinese in the next two years to live in Pakistan and why these jobs aren't given to Pakistanis. A few people from your country posted that Pakistan had no labor power and that it was the Pakistani public's fault, when in reality, a government is responsible for creating it's labor class and train them with technical and vocational training. Not all jobs require PHD's. Many jobs are created to empower the lower classes into middle class and grow the GDP.

 

[MH.Yang]

On another thread, I pointed out that China expects about half a million Chinese in the next two years to live in Pakistan and why these jobs aren't given to Pakistanis. A few people from your country posted that Pakistan had no labor power and that it was the Pakistani public's fault, when in reality, a government is responsible for creating it's labor class and train them with technical and vocational training. Not all jobs require PHD's. Many jobs are created to empower the lower classes into middle class and grow the GDP.

500k? It seems that you think qualified industrial workers are everywhere.
China has a population of 1.4 billion and only 124 million qualified industrial workers. In terms of population ratio and quantity, China is already the highest in the world.

http://app.ceweekly.cn/?action=show&app=article&contentid=234032&controller=article

There are 57 countries in Africa, with a population of 1.28 billion and less than 10 million qualified industrial workers.

You may think sending 500k qualified industrial workers is very simple for China. I can tell you, it's hard to do. China has sent only 350k people throughout Africa. Although CEPC is the flagship project of B&R, it is impossible to have 500k people. I think the resident workers should be 50k, and the peak period should not exceed 100k.


I agree with your suggestion that the Pakistani govt should invest heavily in education. If any country wants to develop, investing in education is the first step, and investing in infrastructure is only the second step. China can only build roads and hydropower stations in Pakistan, but the construction of sufficient educational resources can only rely on the Pakistanis themselves.

 

[S.Y.A]

On another thread, I pointed out that China expects about half a million Chinese in the next two years to live in Pakistan and why these jobs aren't given to Pakistanis. A few people from your country posted that Pakistan had no labor power and that it was the Pakistani public's fault, when in reality, a government is responsible for creating it's labor class and train them with technical and vocational training. Not all jobs require PHD's. Many jobs are created to empower the lower classes into middle class and grow the GDP.

there is labor and there is manpower available. they do not hire locals with experience of working for nokia and ericsson, but go for imported chinese labor, and pay them through the nose. we used to say us-aid goes back to usa through NGOs, purchases and labor, but that was still aid, and free. this is loan, that has to be repaid, and is still going to the chinese not to the pakistanis, through construction contracts, labour, machinery imports etc.

 

[Falconless]

Ok, let's start. I KNOW, Pakistan was building some parts for commercial aircraft and that would mean Boeing. So why can't China establish industry in Pakistan? The US did that for India and the tech Industry is essentially now owned by India in the US. This was all carefully planned out to establish India's middle class economy and to ensure it's growth to counter China. But why something similar can't happen with China-Pak?


I know AUKUS and all details about it. I am just shocked to see the "stronger than Iron" friendship to Chinese means destruction of Pakistan's economy. That's not friendship or allies. It's one way in China's favor....

Pakistan already manufactures parts that go into Boeing and Airbus Aircraft

 

[MH.Yang]

there is labor and there is manpower available. they do not hire locals with experience of working for nokia and ericsson, but go for imported chinese labor, and pay them through the nose. we used to say us-aid goes back to usa through NGOs, purchases and labor, but that was still aid, and free. this is loan, that has to be repaid, and is still going to the chinese not to the pakistanis, through construction contracts, labour, machinery imports etc.

Generally, the starting salary of workers sent abroad by China is 240k CNY (US $37.5k). Therefore, Chinese enterprises will try to use local workers to save costs.

I can also tell you a Chinese proverb:
Free things are the most expensive things.
免费的东西才是最贵的东西。

If you don't understand that, I suggest you think about how much Pakistan has paid in recent decades. Or you can google the relationship between the U.S. food aid act and Chile's 1970s food crisis.



Why did China help Pakistan's aircraft factory have the ability to manufacture JF17, and why did China help Pakistan's shipyard have the ability to manufacture submarines and 054PA. China also can only sell fighters&warships&submarines like the USA. Why should China do this? Think for yourself.

After all these years, if all Pakistanis, like you, still don't know how to rely on their own strength, and still exchanging your most precious things for so-called assistance. Then I have nothing to say.



In addition, China's investment in CEPC also needs income. Of course, China wants more than just a transport corridor. If it is just a transport corridor, China only needs to build ports and roads, not hydropower stations.
Unlike what you think, what China wants is not Pakistan's market, and I don't want to talk about the proportion of the Pakistani market in China's total exports. What China wants is Pakistan's young population.
In 20 years, China will face population aging and population decline. The most pessimistic forecast is that China's population will drop to 800 million in 2050. China needs the help of Pakistan and other countries. Therefore, China hopes that Pakistan and other countries will invest heavily in education. CEPC is a thanks paid in advance by China and a proof of 70 years of friendship and trust between China and Pakistan.

 

[thinkingcap81]

Like the guy pointed out, china looks out for chinese interests, its the Pakistanis who believe in this higher than himalayas crap. t

hey are flooding our markets, and they employ tonnes of chinese in their companies as compared to pakistanis. even when skilled manpower is available. promise one salary, and then give another saying that they are being charged for food and lodging. chinese companies, and chinese govt are the biggest frauds. Pakistanis are just too blind to see it yet, thats why I was against CPEC, but back then anyone who said anything against it was considered a "traitor"

This what happens when there is severe power asymmetry. Other than a hypothetical control over Taliban ruled Afghanistan helping Chinese interests, Pakistan has very limited influence over China.

When India was much much more weaker than she is now and was unofficially aligned with the Soviet Union, our options and choices were also limited though i doubt it was as bad as Pakistan today - rather India suffered, and continues to suffer, because of our own shortcomings. Today we are relatively more sought after because we have the potential, though significantly unrealised, to be a strong nation.

Ok, let's start. I KNOW, Pakistan was building some parts for commercial aircraft and that would mean Boeing. So why can't China establish industry in Pakistan? The US did that for India and the tech Industry is essentially now owned by India in the US. This was all carefully planned out to establish India's middle class economy and to ensure it's growth to counter China. But why something similar can't happen with China-Pak?


I know AUKUS and all details about it. I am just shocked to see the "stronger than Iron" friendship to Chinese means destruction of Pakistan's economy. That's not friendship or allies. It's one way in China's favor....

Really? An exaggerated statement imho - India might have some influential folks in the tech industry, but as of now that's about it.

 

[S.Y.A]

CEPC is a thanks paid in advance by China and a proof of 70 years of friendship and trust between China and Pakistan.

CPEC is loan with effing high conditions, which our leaders were too blind or incompetent to see.

After all these years, if all Pakistanis, like you, still don't know how to rely on their own strength, and still exchanging your most precious things for so-called assistance. Then I have nothing to say.

Oh we can rely on our strength, the issue is the market for the products that are manufactured as a result of this. what DJ Viper is saying is this: will China accept Pakistani manufactured goods? Will China prefer them over European vendors?

 

[MH.Yang]

CPEC is loan with effing high conditions, which our leaders were too blind or incompetent to see.

Oh we can rely on our strength, the issue is the market for the products that are manufactured as a result of this. what DJ Viper is saying is this: will China accept Pakistani manufactured goods? Will China prefer them over European vendors?

China unilaterally gives Pakistan 0 tariff treatment.
When Pakistani goods enter China, the tariff is 0. When Chinese goods enter Pakistan, the tariff is 5-35%.
In 2020, China's total consumption was 39.2 trillion CNY, six times that of India.
This means that enterprises investing in Pakistan can have a market six times larger than India. This has greatly enhanced Pakistan's attractiveness to foreign investment.
Plz tell me what better preferential treatment can China give Pakistan? Negative tariff? Pakistan is the only country that China has given unilateral zero tariff.