China's 3 Most Powerful Dynasties

[IsaacNewton]

Whats with the Hanfu movement, Hanfu is dead.

Hint: no one wears traditional clothing anymore. Japanese doesn't, Korean doesn't, and same with China. Except for ceremonial situation, you shouldn't wear Hanfu.

Culture change all the time. What was Chinese culture 1000 years ago is not the same now, as is Japanese culture 1000 years ago is not the same now. Humans are adaptive animals. Superior design replaces inferior design. Western clothing is more convenient than Chinese clothing, hence the replacement. Western architecture and city design is better at accommodating large population, hence Chinese/Japanese copied that as well.

There is continuity in culture, but culture always changes. It has been like this for as long as humans existed.

Lets face it, if Manchu didn't remove the Hanfu, the Chinese will do it themselves. They will see the advances in the west, come to adapt western thoughts/science, watch hollywood shows, and then eventually adapt western fashion.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Whats with the Hanfu movement, Hanfu is dead.

Hint: no one wears traditional clothing anymore. Japanese doesn't, Korean doesn't, and same with China. Except for ceremonial situation, you shouldn't wear Hanfu.

Culture change all the time. What was Chinese culture 1000 years ago is not the same now, as is Japanese culture 1000 years ago is not the same now. Humans are adaptive animals. Superior design replaces inferior design. Western clothing is more convenient than Chinese clothing, hence the replacement. Western architecture and city design is better at accommodating large population, hence Chinese/Japanese copied that as well.

There is continuity in culture, but culture always changes. It has been like this for as long as humans existed.

Lets face it, if Manchu didn't remove the Hanfu, the Chinese will do it themselves. They will see the advances in the west, come to adapt western thoughts/science, watch hollywood shows, and then eventually adapt western fashion.

What's with this whole "west, west" thing? American culture isn't the whole west. France, Britain, Germany, Italy and Spain are the cultural west, and their culture was destroyed by McDonalds, Apple and Hollywood. Nobody in France or Britain wears powdered wigs, no Italian wears the toga. They all eat burgers and fries at this point.

 

[Aepsilons]

Hint: no one wears traditional clothing anymore. Japanese doesn't, Korean doesn't, and same with China. Except for ceremonial situation, you shouldn't wear Hanfu.

Two civilizations have preserved the HuaXia from Northern Barbarians and they are the Japanese and Koreans. In fact both Japan and Korea , historically and socio-culturally, are the inheritors of the Imperial Legacy of the Great Tang Dynasty:




Korea

Dai Nippon Teikoku (Japan)

 

[j20blackdragon]

What's with this whole "west, west" thing? American culture isn't the whole west. France, Britain, Germany, Italy and Spain are the cultural west, and their culture was destroyed by McDonalds, Apple and Hollywood. Nobody in France or Britain wears powdered wigs, no Italian wears the toga. They all eat burgers and fries at this point.

The West is Greece and Rome.

Germanic and Celtic tribes were all considered barbarians during Roman times.

The Western Roman Empire collapsed in 476 AD.

The Eastern Roman Empire (aka the Greek Byzantine Empire) carried on until 1453 AD until the Ottoman Turks destroyed it.

During this period of nearly a thousand years (476-1453) Western Europe was literally the poorest, most backwards place on Earth.

After the collapse of the Byzantine Empire, Greek/Roman ideas and culture were slowly reintroduced into Europe giving momentum to the Renaissance.

In summary, modern-day Western Europe are wannabes.

The US is the biggest wannabe of all time, being only 239 years old.

 

[soundwave1987]

Two civilizations have preserved the HuaXia from Northern Barbarians and they are the Japanese and Koreans. In fact both Japan and Korea , historically and socio-culturally, are the inheritors of the Imperial Legacy of the Great Tang Dynasty:




Korea

Dai Nippon Teikoku (Japan)

So you mean...you can read or write Chinese classical literature better than I do? Or your citizens study Tang poems, Song lyrics, or Han essays better than us? How many tridional chinese poems or articles in your textbook? Do you even know what the rule and form of chinese poetic rhythm is? How many chinese charactors can average japanese read let alone write? Does chinese zodiac, lunar calender, traditional solar terms still exist in Japan? You guys don't even have Lunar New Year(Spring Festival) anymore. You dont even speak chinese, yet you dare to claim that YOU preserved HuaXia? The so called "northern barbarian" are MUCH MUCH more HuaXia than you guys are. Nalan Rongruo is considered the GREATEST Chinese poet and lyric writer after Song Dynasty, and ANY Qing emperor or even his concubine can outperforms ALL of your emperors in the term of traditional Chinese culture, and Mandarin is their MOTHER TONGUE.
What you preserved is YOUR culture, which WAS heavily INFLUENED by HuaXia, but it was NEVER and is NOT Huaxia culture itself, our culture EVOLVED not DEAD, to say that you guys preserved HuaXia is like to say you preserved the facade of HuaXia yet forsake the soul, a monkey dresses like human dose'nt mean that it is human.

 

[soundwave1987]

I can communicate with ANY of my Tang Dynasty ancestors by reading and writing (for the accent has changed) without any problem, can japanese or korean, whom “preserved HuaXia and inherited Tang's legacy”according to some japanese genius claimed, do the same thing?

 

[Aepsilons]

I can communicate with ANY of my Tang Dynasty ancestors by reading and writing (for the accent has changed) without any problem, can japanese or korean, whom “preserved HuaXia and inherited Tang's legacy”according to some japanese genius claimed, do the same thing?

No, you cannot communicate with your Tang Dynasty Ancestors, lol. The Tang were centered in the Center-South, in fact the language of the Tang Imperial Court is very close to what is now Cantonese, actually.

An example of Tang Dynasty Poem preserved for posterity in Imperial Japan;

During the Edo period Ike Taiga, one of Japan's most prolific literati artists, excelled in a special calligraphic style called karayō, or Chinese-style calligraphy. This screen shows Taiga's execution of a famous Chinese poem, "Maple Bridge Night Mooring," composed by Zhang Ji in the eighth century. Translated, the poem reads:

The moon sets, crows sing, and frost fills the sky.
Maple trees along the river and fires in fishing boats
face me, sleepless with lament.
The bell of Cold Mountain Temple outside Suzhou tolls,
At midnight, the sound reaches this boat.

The calligraphy is flamboyant and various: the characters are large and small, the ink wet and dry, and the lines thick and thin. The work holds a powerful spiritual tension in its fluctuating verticality.

What you preserved is YOUR culture, which WAS heavily INFLUENED by HuaXia, but it was NEVER and is NOT Huaxia culture itself, our culture EVOLVED not DEAD, to say that you guys preserved HuaXia is like to say you preserved the facade of HuaXia yet forsake the soul, a monkey dresses like human dose'nt mean that it is human.

Your emotionality clouds the potentiality of objectivistic analysis and thinking. To correct you, and to reiterate my position, Imperial Japanese Culture is the reification of the legacy of the Tang Imperial Court Culture, and Tang Imperial Dynasty. Imperial Japanese Court Culture is the literal transfiguration , manifestation of the beauty of Tang Court. You have lost Tang when Tang was usurped from the rebelllious Song, then the foreign barbarian Mongol Yuan, then to the Peasant Ming, then to the eventual foreign nomad Manchu Qing.

The sight of 'Traditional Japanese Culture' is curling for many Han nationalists because it is a reminder for them of the beauty of Tang Imperial Court Culture. And what China has lost.

Japan is thus the very transfiguration of HuaXia. Japan has preserved the Imperial Court, Japan has preserved the traditional Kanji (which we learned by our peer, the Tang), Japan has preserved the Tang Court Regalia, Japan has preserved Zen Buddhism that we inherited from the Tang, Japan has preserved Tang. Thus, Japan is the heir of Tang. Thus Japan IS Tang.

Tang Imperialism Transfigurated into Imperial Japanese Culture,

 

[j20blackdragon]

Isn't this thread the ultimate proof that Japan is a copy paste civilization?

Japan's entire writing system is a copy paste from China.

We have the Japanese thread starter admitting that traditional Japanese culture is a copy paste from the Tang Dynasty.

We know that Japan copy pasted the Industrial Revolution from the West during the Meiji Restoration.

So what has Japan done for the world other than copy pasting?

One more thing...

You can copy traditional dress, architecture, technology, and culture all you want.

The one thing you can't copy is DNA.

And the DNA that created thousands of years of East Asian civilization is still on the mainland.

 

[Aepsilons]

The one thing you can't copy is DNA.

The original Yayoi Immigrants to Japan were form what is now Shandong region of China, with some descendants of Wu Taibo coming into the country and helping form the Yamato Entity.

Tho Japan's inhabitants , the Proto-Jomon, have been in Japan for over 6 thousand years, the arrival of the Yayoi (Han Chinese) started during the 5th century BCE. So your trying to say Japan does not have the 'DNA' of China is ridiculous and preposterous; of course we do. Whether you like to believe it or not, we Japanese are.

This is why Japan has EVERY RIGHT to claim lineage of the Tang. As the original Yayoi Japanese were Chinese themselves.

I am speaking and referring from a position of historical accuracy, anthropological accuracy and linguistic accuracy.

The one thing you can't copy is DNA.

Japan doesn't have to 'Copy' anything. Japan is heir to the Tang Culture based on the basis that Japan Is present and exists. We are the reification of Early Han migration to the Japanese Archipelago. The Yamato Civilization learning Tang Culture is merely the reiteration of cultural transfusion as well as genetic transfusion. Afterall, the original Yayoi came to the Japanese Archipelago centuries before China was unified by Qin Shi Huang Di.

So, please.

 

[soundwave1987]

No, you cannot communicate with your Tang Dynasty Ancestors, lol. The Tang were centered in the Center-South, in fact the language of the Tang Imperial Court is very close to what is now Cantonese, actually.

An example of Tang Dynasty Poem preserved for posterity in Imperial Japan;

During the Edo period Ike Taiga, one of Japan's most prolific literati artists, excelled in a special calligraphic style called karayō, or Chinese-style calligraphy. This screen shows Taiga's execution of a famous Chinese poem, "Maple Bridge Night Mooring," composed by Zhang Ji in the eighth century. Translated, the poem reads:

The moon sets, crows sing, and frost fills the sky.
Maple trees along the river and fires in fishing boats
face me, sleepless with lament.
The bell of Cold Mountain Temple outside Suzhou tolls,
At midnight, the sound reaches this boat.

The calligraphy is flamboyant and various: the characters are large and small, the ink wet and dry, and the lines thick and thin. The work holds a powerful spiritual tension in its fluctuating verticality.



Your emotionality clouds the potentiality of objectivistic analysis and thinking. To correct you, and to reiterate my position, Imperial Japanese Culture is the reification of the legacy of the Tang Imperial Court Culture, and Tang Imperial Dynasty. Imperial Japanese Court Culture is the literal transfiguration , manifestation of the beauty of Tang Court. You have lost Tang when Tang was usurped from the rebelllious Song, then the foreign barbarian Mongol Yuan, then to the Peasant Ming, then to the eventual foreign nomad Manchu Qing.

The sight of 'Traditional Japanese Culture' is curling for many Han nationalists because it is a reminder for them of the beauty of Tang Imperial Court Culture. And what China has lost.

Japan is thus the very transfiguration of HuaXia. Japan has preserved the Imperial Court, Japan has preserved the traditional Kanji (which we learned by our peer, the Tang), Japan has preserved the Tang Court Regalia, Japan has preserved Zen Buddhism that we inherited from the Tang, Japan has preserved Tang. Thus, Japan is the heir of Tang. Thus Japan IS Tang.

Tang Imperialism Transfigurated into Imperial Japanese Culture,

Ah, that's exactly what I'm saying, you can only imitate superficial trivials but not understand the essence of China. I CAN communicate with Tang people as I said by READING and WRITING, I KNOW the Tang accent was similar to cantonese dialect today, but the chinese charactor Hanzi never changed. You think I can only read and write simplified charactors? And trust me you are very ignorant with Chinese history, most of simplified charactors actually formed in Tang Dynasty, due to the popularity of cursive script. Your Kanji is NOT Hanzi, it is only some sort of transfiguration, you can read and write Kanji, but you may not even have a clue what the similar Hanzi really means. You people can never really appreatiate the beauty of Tang poem because you dont speak chinese, you can not understand the rules and forms of poetric rhyme (格律，平仄，押韵）restrained by the pronunciation, so you can only transcribed it on the paper but NEVER made an authentic chinese poem. I have read some chinese style poems made by japanese( like 一休宗纯）and honestly, they suck. You guys only copyed the architecture and etiquette from Tang Dynasty but missed the very core of Tang's spirit--兼容并包，有容乃大, which means to accomodate all and absorb all into chinese culture. Because you are NOT Chinese, you are NOT HuaXia, you can NEVER understand what the Tang Dynasty really left to us, you can not really understand the true vision and grandness of Great Tang, which was forged by the very land and people that you do not share. So that's why you always stuck in the meaningless symbols and details that lost all glory without the living and evolving body of Chinese culture. There is an old saying of 皮之不存，毛将焉附( without the living skin, the hair will perish), what dose the regalia or architecture mean other than dead corpse without the ture spirit of Great Tang and tolerance of HuaXia culture? You are actually insulting Tang Dynasty by saying narrow minded Japan inheritef Tang's legacy, it's like to confuse sparrow with the ture eagle.

The moon sets, crows sing, and frost fills the sky.
Maple trees along the river and fires in fishing boats
face me, sleepless with lament.
The bell of Cold Mountain Temple outside Suzhou tolls,
At midnight, the sound reaches this boat.

the poem you posted, 枫桥夜泊
月落乌啼霜满天，
江枫渔火对愁眠。
姑苏城外寒山寺，
夜半钟声到客船。
It's sounds like music to me for it combined the tenderness of sorrow（failed in exam and nostalgia） , vivid beaty of image, and the rhythm of language. I doubt you can share the same admiration for you can not really understand chinese language

foreign nomad Manchu Qing.

well, if Manchu was foreign then Japan would be alein to us. I have already posted why Qing was a Chinese dynasty. perhaps you have ignored it. After all, what the japanese think means nothing, the only important thing is how Manchu people view themseleves and other chinese people view them

 

[JaiMin]

Because Vietnamese are jungles and Japanese have seas, Mongol cavalrymen are not familiar with such thing, they only good at wars on plain

Battle wirh Mongol take place in North Vietnam where terrain is coastal lowland, flat delta near capital, interconnect riverand and low hill. And battle took place in late Fall, near winter. You watch too much America movie in fighting in South Vietnam where jungle cover. 50% terrain

Whats with the Hanfu movement, Hanfu is dead.

Hint: no one wears traditional clothing anymore. Japanese doesn't, Korean doesn't, and same with China. Except for ceremonial situation, you shouldn't wear Hanfu.

Culture change all the time. What was Chinese culture 1000 years ago is not the same now, as is Japanese culture 1000 years ago is not the same now. Humans are adaptive animals. Superior design replaces inferior design. Western clothing is more convenient than Chinese clothing, hence the replacement. Western architecture and city design is better at accommodating large population, hence Chinese/Japanese copied that as well.

There is continuity in culture, but culture always changes. It has been like this for as long as humans existed.

Lets face it, if Manchu didn't remove the Hanfu, the Chinese will do it themselves. They will see the advances in the west, come to adapt western thoughts/science, watch hollywood shows, and then eventually adapt western fashion.

Human learn from each others and they learn what is best, western style clothing is not only more convinient but more varied in style, combination.
Yes, but hanfu design itself change through times, for more convinient, maybe we can see different modern cloth style?. For your next point, yeah, a lot of people in China is learning English and watch Hollywood movie
Source:China Moves to Protect Its Language From English - Businessweek

Isn't this thread the ultimate proof that Japan is a copy paste civilization?

Japan's entire writing system is a copy paste from China.

We have the Japanese thread starter admitting that traditional Japanese culture is a copy paste from the Tang Dynasty.

We know that Japan copy pasted the Industrial Revolution from the West during the Meiji Restoration.

So what has Japan done for the world other than copy pasting?

One more thing...

You can copy traditional dress, architecture, technology, and culture all you want.

The one thing you can't copy is DNA.

And the DNA that created thousands of years of East Asian civilization is still on the mainland.

Well in modern day, China is copying Japan early export model growth too although recently Xi Jinping is thinking of new model to replace it as it is not able to fuel China growth any more. Your country even had slogan "learn from Japan model" in 20th centuary. It is globalised world now, so everything goes both ways. Even back then through trade, mutual learning is developed

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

The West is Greece and Rome.

Germanic and Celtic tribes were all considered barbarians during Roman times.

The Western Roman Empire collapsed in 476 AD.

The Eastern Roman Empire (aka the Greek Byzantine Empire) carried on until 1453 AD until the Ottoman Turks destroyed it.

During this period of nearly a thousand years (476-1453) Western Europe was literally the poorest, most backwards place on Earth.

After the collapse of the Byzantine Empire, Greek/Roman ideas and culture were slowly reintroduced into Europe giving momentum to the Renaissance.

In summary, modern-day Western Europe are wannabes.

The US is the biggest wannabe of all time, being only 239 years old.

well, France prides itself on being the inheritors of Roman Gaul and Italy on being the inheritors of Roman Italia. Both speak Latin languages. Russia prides itself on being the inheritor of Byzantium both in blood (Ivan 3rd married Sophia, the niece of Constantine).

It is Germanic and British tribes that were considered barbarians and indeed even into the 19th century, regard the fall of Rome as a point of pride, how their "martial peoples" triumphed over civilization.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

well, France prides itself on being the inheritors of Roman Gaul and Italy on being the inheritors of Roman Italia. Both speak Latin languages. Russia prides itself on being the inheritor of Byzantium both in blood (Ivan 3rd married Sophia, the niece of Constantine).

It is Germanic and British tribes that were considered barbarians and indeed even into the 19th century, regard the fall of Rome as a point of pride, how their "martial peoples" triumphed over civilization.

Well, Japan is simply not as strong as these people to triumph over its civilization originator.

And China is simply the most consistent civilization in the history, and I think no one is going to argue with that.

 

[XiaoYaoZi Backup]

Whats with the Hanfu movement, Hanfu is dead.

Hint: no one wears traditional clothing anymore. Japanese doesn't, Korean doesn't, and same with China. Except for ceremonial situation, you shouldn't wear Hanfu.

Culture change all the time. What was Chinese culture 1000 years ago is not the same now, as is Japanese culture 1000 years ago is not the same now. Humans are adaptive animals. Superior design replaces inferior design. Western clothing is more convenient than Chinese clothing, hence the replacement. Western architecture and city design is better at accommodating large population, hence Chinese/Japanese copied that as well.
There is continuity in culture, but culture always changes. It has been like this for as long as humans existed.
Lets face it, if Manchu didn't remove the Hanfu, the Chinese will do it themselves. They will see the advances in the west, come to adapt western thoughts/science, watch hollywood shows, and then eventually adapt western fashion.

Change is law of life. The situation that the west is more advanced than us just existed in the times from industrial revolution to now.
Before the industrial revolution, over half of the inventions, creations of the world were created by Chinese.
Anythings that spend how long time to form also need the same long time to disappear.
In modern times the change is far far faster than the past time.
We copy you now, but sooner or later we wont copy. Every things are changing fast. You can never predict the long long future.
I don't think the your 'fast food culture' can bee seen culture.
Let me see what belong to your signs of your western culture can remain after some long time.
forks to meal?

Two civilizations have preserved the HuaXia from Northern Barbarians and they are the Japanese and Koreans. In fact both Japan and Korea , historically and socio-culturally, are the inheritors of the Imperial Legacy of the Great Tang Dynasty:




Korea

Dai Nippon Teikoku (Japan)

Old stuffs, tools, and customs, etc was just the methods, technologies, designs, styles, etc people used in past time of history, which destined to be eliminated by new methods, new technology, new designs, new styles, etc.
The special stuffs and customs in special history times and special places only belonged to the special times and the special places, which only can represented those special times and special places and should exist in museums, people's memory or where they should be as the signs of those times and those places . For the most stuffs and customs we use today will probably not be used tomorrow. Even the stuffs you imported from us need to be changed to adapt your environment.

What you showed were just the external performance/forms of the culture.

The core of the culture forever are the thought, wisdom, theory or philosophy, etc, which reflects the world view that means how to view the different anythings in past, present or future or here, there or anywhere, etc and the methodology that reflects how to treat or handle the ever-changing anythings. In the process of forming these thought, wisdom or philosophy, etc, countless things appeared and disappeared and countless people succeeded and failed or lived and died, etc.
The formations of any things need enough samples, practices, time, occasions, etc through countless successes and failures to test and verify the rationality of its existence. The formations of the thought, wisdom, theory or philosophy, etc need far far more these things.
Our huge size, long long history and countless experiences have given us countless these samples, practices, time, occasions, etc to test and verify the rationality of the past and current existence the core of our culture, and constantly improve and innovate for the rationality of its existence of the future.
Your size, time and experiences is far far never enough to reach our depth.
The old saying, "胡虏无百年运", meaning the barbarian nation always abusing its power can never keep its dominance over one hundred years, has been verified by the experiences of the countless nations experiencing its rise and then its decline in all history. Your nation rightly is here.
Taking a example of Sun Tzu's art of war, long time before the birth time of Sun Zi, there has been countless little or large and simple or complex wars happening in our territory, then an very very intelligent person, Sun Wu, on the base of the countless experiences of wars and the rules concluded by the countless predecessors, concluded his own theories called '孙子兵法', which still is not outdated today.
Dogmatism and following a stereotype never belonged to our culture, seemly what you showed just means you have that tradition. We are most practical people in the world and can change anytime for any practical reasons. As I said before, Japanese and Korean just got some skins and furs.
For example,always facing the reality belongs to our culture, and did you learn?

Fabricating history doesn't belong to our culture, it is your culture.

 

[XiaoYaoZi Backup]

No, you cannot communicate with your Tang Dynasty Ancestors, lol. The Tang were centered in the Center-South, in fact the language of the Tang Imperial Court is very close to what is now Cantonese, actually.

An example of Tang Dynasty Poem preserved for posterity in Imperial Japan;

During the Edo period Ike Taiga, one of Japan's most prolific literati artists, excelled in a special calligraphic style called karayō, or Chinese-style calligraphy. This screen shows Taiga's execution of a famous Chinese poem, "Maple Bridge Night Mooring," composed by Zhang Ji in the eighth century. Translated, the poem reads:

The moon sets, crows sing, and frost fills the sky.
Maple trees along the river and fires in fishing boats
face me, sleepless with lament.
The bell of Cold Mountain Temple outside Suzhou tolls,
At midnight, the sound reaches this boat.

The calligraphy is flamboyant and various: the characters are large and small, the ink wet and dry, and the lines thick and thin. The work holds a powerful spiritual tension in its fluctuating verticality.



Your emotionality clouds the potentiality of objectivistic analysis and thinking. To correct you, and to reiterate my position, Imperial Japanese Culture is the reification of the legacy of the Tang Imperial Court Culture, and Tang Imperial Dynasty. Imperial Japanese Court Culture is the literal transfiguration , manifestation of the beauty of Tang Court. You have lost Tang when Tang was usurped from the rebelllious Song, then the foreign barbarian Mongol Yuan, then to the Peasant Ming, then to the eventual foreign nomad Manchu Qing.

The sight of 'Traditional Japanese Culture' is curling for many Han nationalists because it is a reminder for them of the beauty of Tang Imperial Court Culture. And what China has lost.

Japan is thus the very transfiguration of HuaXia. Japan has preserved the Imperial Court, Japan has preserved the traditional Kanji (which we learned by our peer, the Tang), Japan has preserved the Tang Court Regalia, Japan has preserved Zen Buddhism that we inherited from the Tang, Japan has preserved Tang. Thus, Japan is the heir of Tang. Thus Japan IS Tang.

Tang Imperialism Transfigurated into Imperial Japanese Culture,

At least the Chinese of Tang didn't speak Japanese.