China Will Receive 4 Su-35 Fighter Jets From Russia

[beijingwalker]

China Will Receive 4 Su-35 Fighter Jets From Russia
The four fighter jets will be transferred to China by December 25, according to a Russian defense industry official.
By Franz-Stefan Gady
December 15, 2016
The People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) will receive its first batch of four Russian-made Sukhoi Su-35 multirole fighter jets earlier than expected, according to a Russian defense industry source, TASS news agency reports on December 14. “The first four Sukhoi-35 are to fly over to China by December 25,” according to the unnamed source.

The first deliveries were initially scheduled for 2017. It is unclear why the delivery schedule has now been sped up. There is also no official statement from the Chinese side confirming the transfer. Furthermore, as of November last month, The National Interest reported that no contract had been formally signed between China and Russia over the Su-35 aircraft.

“First of all, let’s be accurate. We have not sold yet,” retired Lt. Gen. Evgeny Buzhinsky (Ret.), chairman of the executive board of the Moscow-based PIR Center, said on November 15. “We are in the process of very tough and very difficult negotiations on these issues.”

The Su-35 (NATO reporting name: Flanker-E) is a fourth++ generation, twin-engine, multirole fighter aircraft powered by two AL-117S turbofan engines. As I reported elsewhere, China first expressed interest in the Su-35 in 2008 with official negotiations beginning in 2011. A preliminary agreement was reached in 2012 with a sales contract for 24 aircraft reportedly signed in November 2015 (See: “China to Receive 4 Su-35 Fighter Jets From Russia in 2016”). However, Buzhinsky noted: “We signed the protection of intellectual property agreement, which was a precondition for the supply of Su-35.”

Nevertheless, Buzhinsky was not worried about Chinese engineers reverse engineering the turbofan engine: “They cannot produce engines. We agreed to supply engines for the Su-35, but fortunately—my technical colleagues told me—that it is practically impossible to copy that engine because it is practically impossible just to reach the heart of the engine without breaking it completely.”

In August 2016, China made public that it set up a new state-owned aircraft engine maker to accelerate the development of new high-performance turbofan engines. China’s aviation industry is currently working on the WS-13 Taishan turbofan, a derivative of the Russian Klimov RD-33 turbofan, among other things.

Chinese-made military turbofan engines such as the WS-10 are under-performing, according to various reports. Even the PLAAF’s two fifth-generation fighter jet prototypes–the Chengdu J-20 and Shenyang J-31–are reportedly equipped with older Russian-made jet engines–the Saturn AL-31 and the Klimov RD-93, first introduced in the early 1980s for the Sukhoi Su-27.

Whenever a final contract will be inked, according to Buzhinsky, China will not receive Russia’s most advanced Su-35 model: “We have export version and a version for our own use. The Chinese are very good at copying all kinds of stuff.”

http://thediplomat.com/2016/12/china-will-receive-4-su-35-fighter-jets-from-russia/

 

[艹艹艹]

Maybe this is the last time China buys fighter jets from Russia

 

[hoangsa74]

China Will Receive 4 Su-35 Fighter Jets From Russia
The four fighter jets will be transferred to China by December 25, according to a Russian defense industry official.
By Franz-Stefan Gady
December 15, 2016
The People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) will receive its first batch of four Russian-made Sukhoi Su-35 multirole fighter jets earlier than expected, according to a Russian defense industry source, TASS news agency reports on December 14. “The first four Sukhoi-35 are to fly over to China by December 25,” according to the unnamed source.

The first deliveries were initially scheduled for 2017. It is unclear why the delivery schedule has now been sped up. There is also no official statement from the Chinese side confirming the transfer. Furthermore, as of November last month, The National Interest reported that no contract had been formally signed between China and Russia over the Su-35 aircraft.

“First of all, let’s be accurate. We have not sold yet,” retired Lt. Gen. Evgeny Buzhinsky (Ret.), chairman of the executive board of the Moscow-based PIR Center, said on November 15. “We are in the process of very tough and very difficult negotiations on these issues.”

The Su-35 (NATO reporting name: Flanker-E) is a fourth++ generation, twin-engine, multirole fighter aircraft powered by two AL-117S turbofan engines. As I reported elsewhere, China first expressed interest in the Su-35 in 2008 with official negotiations beginning in 2011. A preliminary agreement was reached in 2012 with a sales contract for 24 aircraft reportedly signed in November 2015 (See: “China to Receive 4 Su-35 Fighter Jets From Russia in 2016”). However, Buzhinsky noted: “We signed the protection of intellectual property agreement, which was a precondition for the supply of Su-35.”

Nevertheless, Buzhinsky was not worried about Chinese engineers reverse engineering the turbofan engine: “They cannot produce engines. We agreed to supply engines for the Su-35, but fortunately—my technical colleagues told me—that it is practically impossible to copy that engine because it is practically impossible just to reach the heart of the engine without breaking it completely.”

In August 2016, China made public that it set up a new state-owned aircraft engine maker to accelerate the development of new high-performance turbofan engines. China’s aviation industry is currently working on the WS-13 Taishan turbofan, a derivative of the Russian Klimov RD-33 turbofan, among other things.

Chinese-made military turbofan engines such as the WS-10 are under-performing, according to various reports. Even the PLAAF’s two fifth-generation fighter jet prototypes–the Chengdu J-20 and Shenyang J-31–are reportedly equipped with older Russian-made jet engines–the Saturn AL-31 and the Klimov RD-93, first introduced in the early 1980s for the Sukhoi Su-27.

Whenever a final contract will be inked, according to Buzhinsky, China will not receive Russia’s most advanced Su-35 model: “We have export version and a version for our own use. The Chinese are very good at copying all kinds of stuff.”

http://thediplomat.com/2016/12/china-will-receive-4-su-35-fighter-jets-from-russia/

I take it that Chinese engineers must be confident that they can reverse engineer the engine that's why there is a deal to buy 4. I wonder why the deal is for 24 instead of 2.

 

[alwaysfair]

Maybe this is the last time China buys fighter jets from Russia

And why are you shouting . We believe you.

 

[beijingwalker]

More engines from different sources means more options for various Chinese jets, in China's mind she just bought 4 new type engines.

 

[艹艹艹]

And why are you shouting . We believe you.

If Russia willing to sell T50, we will buy some for air combat test.

 

[Hassan Guy]

Is it better than the J-11D?

 

[beijingwalker]

Is it better than the J-11D?

It's all about options, the more the merrier. The sole purpose for China buying advanced foreign weapons is to reverse engineer them, with the sufficient funds and technology, China does want to have her fingers on every pie. Other countries buy weapons for their armies, China buys weapons for her scientists and engineers.

 

[Akasa]

Is it better than the J-11D?

In the kinematic aspect, perhaps. But I can't see how a Su-35 could outshoot the J-11D in terms of BVR combat.

 

[tranquilium]

Maybe this is the last time China buys fighter jets from Russia

The Russians sold the fighter after WS-10B is released in Zhuhai aircraft exhibition. Basically, the engine no longer has a tech advantage.

I take it that Chinese engineers must be confident that they can reverse engineer the engine that's why there is a deal to buy 4. I wonder why the deal is for 24 instead of 2.

This is because Russians are not stupid. WS-10B release means there is no point to hold on to Su-35 because it already lost the tech advantage. In fact, in a few years when WS-15 is in full production, it would be obsolete. So selling it now means you can at least make a bit money on it. China originally wanted to just buy a few, but from Russian's perspective, they want to make as much money as possible on the deal.

 

[Shotgunner51]

Without more disclosed info, I guess the merits for this deal are:

For China

1. FTTC (Flight Test and Training Centre, PLAAF; 空军飞行试验训练基地) got new "foreign" birds (on top of MKK now in 172 brigade), especially useful in developing tactics that involve TVC.
2. AECC (Aero Engine Corp of China) can examine the new engines.
   
3. Helps Russia by indirectly funding (the $2B deal size is very affordable) their military campaigns against enemies, e.g. in Syrian War.
   
4. Helps Pakistan to access 1st hand info on Su-35.

For Russia:

1. Immediate financial benefits.
2. Marketing effect for Su-35 to other potential buyers.
3. Rally domestic (& even foreign) support to focus on PAKFA/T50.

 

[ohmrlobalobayeh]

China Will Receive 4 Su-35 Fighter Jets From Russia
The four fighter jets will be transferred to China by December 25, according to a Russian defense industry official.
By Franz-Stefan Gady
December 15, 2016
The People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) will receive its first batch of four Russian-made Sukhoi Su-35 multirole fighter jets earlier than expected, according to a Russian defense industry source, TASS news agency reports on December 14. “The first four Sukhoi-35 are to fly over to China by December 25,” according to the unnamed source.

The first deliveries were initially scheduled for 2017. It is unclear why the delivery schedule has now been sped up. There is also no official statement from the Chinese side confirming the transfer. Furthermore, as of November last month, The National Interest reported that no contract had been formally signed between China and Russia over the Su-35 aircraft.

“First of all, let’s be accurate. We have not sold yet,” retired Lt. Gen. Evgeny Buzhinsky (Ret.), chairman of the executive board of the Moscow-based PIR Center, said on November 15. “We are in the process of very tough and very difficult negotiations on these issues.”

The Su-35 (NATO reporting name: Flanker-E) is a fourth++ generation, twin-engine, multirole fighter aircraft powered by two AL-117S turbofan engines. As I reported elsewhere, China first expressed interest in the Su-35 in 2008 with official negotiations beginning in 2011. A preliminary agreement was reached in 2012 with a sales contract for 24 aircraft reportedly signed in November 2015 (See: “China to Receive 4 Su-35 Fighter Jets From Russia in 2016”). However, Buzhinsky noted: “We signed the protection of intellectual property agreement, which was a precondition for the supply of Su-35.”

Nevertheless, Buzhinsky was not worried about Chinese engineers reverse engineering the turbofan engine: “They cannot produce engines. We agreed to supply engines for the Su-35, but fortunately—my technical colleagues told me—that it is practically impossible to copy that engine because it is practically impossible just to reach the heart of the engine without breaking it completely.”

In August 2016, China made public that it set up a new state-owned aircraft engine maker to accelerate the development of new high-performance turbofan engines. China’s aviation industry is currently working on the WS-13 Taishan turbofan, a derivative of the Russian Klimov RD-33 turbofan, among other things.

Chinese-made military turbofan engines such as the WS-10 are under-performing, according to various reports. Even the PLAAF’s two fifth-generation fighter jet prototypes–the Chengdu J-20 and Shenyang J-31–are reportedly equipped with older Russian-made jet engines–the Saturn AL-31 and the Klimov RD-93, first introduced in the early 1980s for the Sukhoi Su-27.

Whenever a final contract will be inked, according to Buzhinsky, China will not receive Russia’s most advanced Su-35 model: “We have export version and a version for our own use. The Chinese are very good at copying all kinds of stuff.”

http://thediplomat.com/2016/12/china-will-receive-4-su-35-fighter-jets-from-russia/

when i read the choice of wordings in this article(provided it's reported as what the person said), it's easy to see the deal as bogus.

 

[zestokryl]

This deal is a ticket for China to buy much more "izdelye 117" engines, Su 35 is geared with

It definitely. needs them

 

[Place Of Space]

Good news, it should be real. I noticed the sources was from Russia official statements. Finially we start to fulfill the deal.

 

[beijingwalker]

China mass producing fighter jets engines for the J11D fighter which is a copy of the Russian Su-35
December 15, 2016

Advances in China's jet engine designs have led to the launch of the J-11D, which is a home-grown version of the russian Su-35

China is ready to launch its new J-11D fighter after it failed to acquire Russian engines on schedule and was forced to develop its own technology, military observers said.

The progress included advances in home-grown turbofan technology and radar systems, and showed that Beijing was no longer reliant on Russian engines for its new generation of fighters, analysts said.

After a decade of negotiations, China and Russia inked a deal for 24 Su-35 aircraft last year.

China had hoped the deal would include delivery of an extra 48 117S engines, that it could use in its newer aircraft like the J-20.

But Russian red tape forced China to upgrade the Su-27s it already had and develop its own variant of the Su-35, the J-11D. The J-11D, built by Shenyang Aircraft Corporation, made its maiden flight on April 29 last year.

Some of the most noticeable improvements are in the radar system, the addition of a computer-controlled antenna that can point in different directions without moving, and greater use of composites and stealth coatings in the fuselage to cut weight. The maiden flight also revealed that the J-11D is powered by a WS-10 engine, a turbofan design originally developed by a subsidiary of Chinese aerospace giant Aviation Industry Corporation of China (Avic), SAC’s parent company.

In its annual report in July, Avic said it built more than 400 WS-10 engines last year, suggesting the J-10 and J-11 fighters no longer needed Russian engines.

The J-11D is powered by a new WS-10 variant; the variant reportedly had improved reliability, with a thrust of more than 13 tons, and less than that of the AL-31F-M1.

The Su-35 is powered by two turbofan engines, giving it a range of about 3,500km on internal fuel, or 4,500km with two external fuel tanks, making it Russia’s most advanced multi-role fighter.

Macau-based military observer Antony Wong Dong said the J-11D project would help Shenyang Aircraft enter into “virtuous competition” with rival Chengdu Aerospace Corporation (CAC), another Avic offshoot that developed the J-9, J-10, J-20 and other fighters.
http://www.nextbigfuture.com/2016/12/china-mass-producing-fighter-jets.html