China using Pak to slow India's rise

[Chinese-Dragon]

Fair enough. China has all rights to be suspicious and thus preparing for possible future change of India's Tibet policy.

But China's Kashmir policy, which is solely based on China's relation with Pakistan, isn't comparable to/influencing/justifiable by India's present Tibet policy. Yeah, Arunachal could be a possible bargaining chip for China for any possible alternation of Tibet issue.

Thanks.

On the issue of Kashmir I'll just say that China occupies around 20% of Kashmir and has done for decades. So it's not as if we're suddenly interfering in it, we've had a stake in the issue for a long time.

Chinese claims on AP are there, to counter Indian claims on Aksai Chin. And as you said... it also counts as a bargaining chip regarding the Tibet issue.

It's all politics, it doesn't stop cooperation in other areas.

 

[Urbanized Greyhound]

Like I said, the fact that the "Tibetan government in exile" exists in India, and continues to send out anti-China slogans, is potentially very dangerous for China.

In geopolitics, we can't just "trust" that it won't ever be used in the future, as a political weapon. Who knows which party might be elected to the next Indian government, and what their policy might be with regards to Tibet?

I respect differences in perceptions, and I don't consider one side to be absolutely "right" or "wrong". I do think increased communication over such issues is a good thing though.

Yeah, you try to find middle ground and at least consider our perspectives .....which is why I respect you for your balanced approach.

You are right when you say
in geopolitics we dont know who is going to be used as a bargaining chip and under what circumstances.However with increased co-operation and dialogue both governments can certainly work out some sort of a compromise.

 

[LaBong]

On the issue of Kashmir I'll just say that China occupies around 20% of Kashmir and has done for decades.

The part China occupies is sparsely populated and has the only route from Tibbet to Xinjiang. Now there's some presence of PLA in Baltistan possibly to curb Uyghur separatists. I don't think China is interested in Valley or Ladakh. But anyway if China considers it as disputed then she should treat all of Kashmir as disputed.

But we have already done that exercise, haven't we? Lets not resurrect the topic which already been beaten to death many times in this very forum.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Yeah, you try to find middle ground and at least consider our perspectives .....which is why I respect you for your balanced approach.

You are right when you say
in geopolitics we dont know who is going to be used as a bargaining chip and under what circumstances.However with increased co-operation and dialogue both governments can certainly work out some sort of a compromise.

To be fair, from what I have heard about Indian politics, I'd say there is very little chance that India will change it's Tibet policy. (Despite what some people on BR might want).

Out of curiosity, which Indian political party favors changing the stance on Tibet, and what is the likelihood that they will ever be voted into power? Am I right in saying the likelihood of such an event taking place is very low?

The part China occupies is sparsely populated and has the only route from Tibbet to Xinjiang. Now there's some presence of PLA in Baltistan possibly to curb Uyghur separatists. I don't think China is interested in Valley or Ladakh. But anyway if China considers it as disputed then she should treat all of Kashmir as disputed.

But we have already done that exercise, haven't we? Lets not resurrect the topic which already been beaten to death many times in this very forum.

In my opinion the status quo is fine, and I wouldn't mind turning the status quo into permanent borders. We get to keep Aksai Chin, India gets to keep J&K, Pakistan gets to keep Azad and GB.

 

[Peacefulll]

To be fair, from what I have heard about Indian politics, I'd say there is very little chance that India will change it's Tibet policy. (Despite what some people on BR might want).

Out of curiosity, which Indian political party favors changing the stance on Tibet, and what is the likelihood that they will ever be voted into power? Am I right in saying the likelihood of such an event taking place is very low?



In my opinion the status quo is fine, and I wouldn't mind turning the status quo into permanent borders. We get to keep Aksai Chin, India gets to keep J&K, Pakistan gets to keep Azad and GB.

Not any of the mainstream ones. I remember an ultra-nationalist hawkish party that was set up a few years back by some 'fresh out of college' young professionals, called 'Bharat Punarnirman Dal' (BPD) - their 'manifesto' was openly very aggressive. But that party has died out now, and anyway it was too small/new to even be counted.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Not any of the mainstream ones. I remember an ultra-nationalist hawkish party that was set up a few years back by some college students, called 'Bharat Punarnirman Dal' (BPD) - their 'manifesto' was openly very aggressive. But that party has died out now, and anyway it was too small/new to even be counted.

Thanks for the information.

 

[LaBong]

Out of curiosity, which Indian political party favors changing the stance on Tibet, and what is the likelihood that they will ever be voted into power? Am I right in saying the likelihood of such an event taking place is very low?

As far as I know, Tibet isn't there in any of political party's doctrine. Lefts keep themselves mum on Tibetans cause and officially thinks it's China's internal matter. Rights blame Lefts of being China's dalaal(middle-man). I think lefts are just bunch of fools leaving in the age of dinosaurs.

 

[Urbanized Greyhound]

To be fair, from what I have heard about Indian politics, I'd say there is very little chance that India will change it's Tibet policy. (Despite what some people on BR might want).

Out of curiosity, which Indian political party favors changing the stance on Tibet, and what is the likelihood that they will ever be voted into power? Am I right in saying the likelihood of such an event taking place is very low?



In my opinion the status quo is fine, and I wouldn't mind turning the status quo into permanent borders. We get to keep Aksai Chin, India gets to keep J&K, Pakistan gets to keep Azad and GB.

Me too , and as far as mainstream political parties are concerned the BJP, the most nationalistic and Hawkish political party signaled they were ready to move ahead when Vajpayeeji declared that India would recognize Tibet a part of China .....and if relations move in a positive direction you can be sure the Indian side will never seek to change the status quo....

 

[huzihaidao12]

We can disagree on our understanding of the so-called 'political chips' and the 'Tibetan government in exile'. That is okay.

Did I ever ask you any questions like 'why China did that or why they did not'. Heck...I don't even deny the historical facts about the events happened around 1959 and 1962. Let's leave the past in the past otherwise there will be no progress at all. All I said in my previous posts, if you read carefully, was that the Govt of India does not recognize the 'Tibetan government in exile' and does not support any anti-China activities. If there are still some issues, the two governments can discuss them through the diplomatic channels. And I believe they are already doing that.

"spouting out anti-China slogans" many Tibetans do that in other parts of the world.

That is good, I have also said that playing a blame game, no sense, but if the Indians need a description, I am sure to give. I also admit that India has some restraint in Tibet, so we still have time to solve the problem. Diplomatic channels is good. for all good, even if it takes a long time, it is still worth , but this does not mean just with the mouth, without any real action, or even denied. With a simple words, China will not always tolerate the attitude of India in Tibet. Needs special attention is that some things like the 2008 best not to repeat in China, otherwise it will seriously aggravate the situation. Even if the CCP has restraint, domestic public will once again be stimulated .

 

[shuntmaster]

04/11/2010

China using Pak to slow India's rise​

Washington: Relation between India and China has deteriorated in last 18 months and is unlikely to get better, a former US Ambassador to India has said and he shared the perception of many Indian strategic thinkers that Beijing is using Pakistan to slow India's rise.

There is nothing new in this. The cornerstone of Sino-pak relationship is their common enmity with India. This "taller than Himalayans, deeper than Arabian sea" alliance started right after Indo-Chinese border conflict of 1962. There is no common denominating factor between these 2 countries, other than India. They are poles apart as far as their basic and fundamental nature goes.
US is trying to do some fear-mongering to bring India into its sphere-of-influence in its covert policy to contain China. India will not easily fall into this trap. India will do what is in its best short term and long term interests.
Actually, there is not much Pakistan or China can do to limit India's growth rate. China, Via-Pakistan, will always try to confine India's sphere-of-influence to within South-Asian region. But, India has already got out of that phase now. The world, long stopped bracketing India with Pakistan (The recent Obama visit to only India is an indicator). The rapid modernization of the Indian army and Air-force and building of a blue water navy is step in this direction. Pakistan's policy of bleeding India with 1000 cuts has failed miserably and is now causing them internal bleeding. We have seen what worst Pakistan can do to India in the 1990's, and India came on tops, to be one of the fastest growing big economy and best respected country of the world today.
We often come across some Pakistani leaders commenting that resolution of Kashmir issue, peace between India and Pakistan etc. is the criteria for the development of South-Asia. This is pure BS. Pakistanis think they have a veto on India's development and blackmail India to negotiate on their terms. But the statistics and ground realties in both India and Pakistan say otherwise. (What the Pakistani leaders actually mean is that they want peace with India so that Pakistan can come out of the mess its finds itself in). India is doing quite well even with Kashmir in turmoil and a handful of insurgencies going on. India has learned to take all these 'speed-breakers' into stride and march ahead to take its rightful place in the world stage.

 

[luckyyy]

Me too , and as far as mainstream political parties are concerned the BJP, the most nationalistic and Hawkish political party signaled they were ready to move ahead when Vajpayeeji declared that India would recognize Tibet a part of China .....and if relations move in a positive direction you can be sure the Indian side will never seek to change the status quo....

i think india should invite the lamas to abbonden tibet and cross over to get indian citizenship...

 

[shuntmaster]

That is good, I have also said that playing a blame game, no sense, but if the Indians need a description, I am sure to give. I also admit that India has some restraint in Tibet, so we still have time to solve the problem. Diplomatic channels is good. for all good, even if it takes a long time, it is still worth , but this does not mean just with the mouth, without any real action, or even denied. With a simple words, China will not always tolerate the attitude of India in Tibet. Needs special attention is that some things like the 2008 best not to repeat in China, otherwise it will seriously aggravate the situation. Even if the CCP has restraint, domestic public will once again be stimulated .

What happens in Tibet is purely dependent on how the Chinese government handles the issue. If you are referring to the Tibetan uprising of 2008, I suppose no one, not even CPC, pointed a finger at India. A few fingers were pointed at the Dalai Lama, which seemed purely out of reflex or basic instinct rather than any hardcore evidence.
Infact, the Olympic torch relay had one of peacefullest passage in India, unlike many other countries in the west.

 

[huzihaidao12]

What happens in Tibet is purely dependent on how the Chinese government handles the issue. If you are referring to the Tibetan uprising of 2008, I suppose no one, not even CPC, pointed a finger at India. A few fingers were pointed at the Dalai Lama, which seemed purely out of reflex or basic instinct rather than any hardcore evidence.
Infact, the Olympic torch relay had one of peacefullest passage in India, unlike many other countries in the west.

See my reply, I think clear enough. As the torch, I know that India is different with the West, but you think that why China agreed to the torch through India? Because Indian has requested, and China has promised, so you need to be responsible for yourself.