China Unveils FC-31; Brief Analysis of Possible Buyer(s)

[mike2000 is back]

The BAe that won the Korean Falcon upgrade is the US branch created around the F-35 partnership issues.
The BAe that lost the UAE is the Brit one though.

Well BAE is still a British company though, even though it has a U.S/Canadian and Australian branch. Just like GE has branches in U.K as well still doesnt makes GE british. Its normal in this globalised world we live in anyway.

 

[Akasa]

If I had my pick, I'd choose the South Korean TFX programme for many reasons.

Those reasons being...? I don't think subsystems will be an issue at all, due to the modularity of the program as well as the number of Chinese vendors producing them.

china may have aesa radars and destroyers, but its not to western standards (no offense)
also the c919 was designed with help from bombardier.

You have specifications and/or blueprints of the respective AESA radars or subsystems?

China has made huge strides in military technology

Can build in huge numbers very quickly

And the FC31 looks a great project.

But make no mistake FC31 will not have the high advanced cock pit sensor fusion aesa radar and ew suites of the F35 or indeed the lethal weapons mix of the usa.

Engine powerplant wise the chinease do not have an indengious engine as yet and both usa europe and russia are far ahead.

overall i would suggest that a Rafale F3 and FC31 WILL BE ON PAR just about but the french fighter wins in overall range payload and cockpit technology

BUT the FC31 wins in better RCS and stealth

Now all you need to do is to back your claims up with authoritative data and/or blueprints.

 

[ArsalanKhan21]

China is looking for foreign Partners to invest in J-31..... Pakistan should go for it...

On the sole condition that Pakistan gets more advanced job/s than it did on the Thunder. That is a prerequisite to useful and reasonably quick national development of the industry. And seeing how the F-31's design is mostly cleared by now, that's unlikely!

We still do not have Aviation R&D to have "advanced jobs". I agree with Omar that we should partner with China for licensing and manufacturing J-31 in Pakistan and not just assembling it. JF-17 production can end with Block III as final design and replace it with JF-31 production in 2020-2025.

 

[Khafee]

We still do not have Aviation R&D to have "advanced jobs". I agree with Omar that we should partner with China for licensing and manufacturing J-31 in Pakistan and not just assembling. JF-17 production can be ended with Block III and replace it with JF-31 production in 2020-2025.

And how many units will you manufacture in Pakistan?

 

[ArsalanKhan21]

And how many units will you manufacture in Pakistan?

As far as I know from the news media, PAF would like 4-5 squadrons which is 72-90 fighters.

 

[aliaselin]

Well BAE is still a British company though, even though it has a U.S/Canadian and Australian branch. Just like GE has branches in U.K as well still doesnt makes GE british. Its normal in this globalised world we live in anyway.

No matter how much you boast, Korean is the puppet of US; when GE has offered them F-414, they have no right to refuse. Moreover, the US has much better layout for F414 such as F414-EPE, while EJ-230 is still on paper. RR military engine development ability will disappear sooner or later.

 

[Viper0011.]

jf-17 block 3 is also 4+ generation jet we need 5th not 4++ gen jet.

JFT block III should be TOT J-10C jet, like how F-16 block 52, onward is an entirely different plane, still under the F-16 program and with shape similarities due to having a very agile air-frame. Similarly, JFT block III should be similar to FC-20, IMO. JFT block 4 should be a TOT smaller version of FC-31. That would make perfect sense and would allow Pakistan to assemble, partly manufacture and maintain different versions of the JFT program, including a Stealth version. This would create an ENTIRE industry of airplanes in Pakistan. The next step should be home built BVR and SAMs.

And you can still supplement your three tiers of the JFT (block I and II, FC-20 based block III and J-31 based block IV), with American and European top end jets in limited numbers!!

 

[Taygibay]

We still do not have Aviation R&D to have "advanced jobs". I agree with Omar that we should partner with China for licensing and manufacturing J-31 in Pakistan and not just assembling it. JF-17 production can end with Block III as final design and replace it with JF-31 production in 2020-2025.

JFT block III should be TOT J-10C jet, like how F-16 block 52, onward is an entirely different plane, still under the F-16 program and with shape similarities due to having a very agile air-frame. Similarly, JFT block III should be similar to FC-20, IMO. JFT block 4 should be a TOT smaller version of FC-31. That would make perfect sense and would allow Pakistan to assemble, partly manufacture and maintain different versions of the JFT program, including a Stealth version. This would create an ENTIRE industry of airplanes in Pakistan. The next step should be home built BVR and SAMs.

And you can still supplement your three tiers of the JFT (block I and II, FC-20 based block III and J-31 based block IV), with American and European top end jets in limited numbers!!

OK! As long as it's feasible which I still doubt for reasons explained prior but heck, why not?

GL on that, Tay.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

The WS-13 is already used on the FC-31, just read the Chinese official statement.

BTW, I don't understand why some Pakistani members wanna the cooperation with South Korea, since this country is basically a toddler when it comes to the aviation industry.

They can't even build a training jet by themselves.



Are you kidding me?

China has already built over 500 WS-10 turbofan engines over the last decade.

Now many new brand of jet engines are ready to fly or under the development.

Your knowledge about China's jet engine is so 1990s.

Ppl are talking about Turkish KFX program bit Korean ... Probably because of a news article posted a few days back about the possibility of Pak-Turkey getting into a JV.

 

[RealNapster]

Sir,

Please speak English and respect this forum----.

I am an Engineer. "good with math only" ..

and when i disrespeted this forum ? most peoply "mostly" use hindi/urdu here.

janab combination in future will not be possible its seems to me f-16 is last western fighter jet for PAF .

and that's what i am worried about.

@RealNapster
Agreed to your post #26 if not those following.
It's like those choice questions at exams :

How do you insure autonomy in war options?

A- Build everything yourself. USA and France, to a lesser degree Russia, the UK or further down China.
B- Buy from a preferred source. With the caveat you raised of technological infeudation and consequently
political submission to some degree and helplessness if the alliance changes. Most countries.
C- Buy from everyone with great care. Rarer cases that may or may not include local mil industry develop
-ment so South Africa & Indonesia in the first case and GCC states for examples of the second.
D- Buy nothing and smoke a fat one, fingers crossed! Iceland, Liechtenstein and the total hero of the world
Costa Rica as well as Jamaïca mostly for the middle part.

That's it! E- All of the above is not a realistic option.

LOL

Your points are not completely wrong when taken into consideration. While I don't see any specific reason for which We and China can ever go to war, but our relations might not remain the same if the geo-political situation changes dramatically.

For example, if one day our eastern neighbor some how completely jeopardize its relations with US and the west and then look for a partner in the East and decide that they can work with China and Russia to balance the playing field, what will be the Chinese reaction. I think if they are wise enough, they will choose them over us.

Or if things really flare up in Sinkiang region, Chinese crack down on it and thousands die (Just a hypothetical situation) there will be reaction on Pakistani streets, the same old Muslim Ummah thing and some religious fanatics may find their way to the region, this has happened before but let's suppose this time its more intense, would Chinese take it lightly, no and if GOP does not act the relations might take a hit.

Of course none of these seems plausible right now but are they beyond the realm of reality, no, stranger things have happened in this world. US was training and equipping Afghan Mujahideen in the 80's and fighting many of them in 2000's. Japan got 2 of its cities nuked by US and now US is the partner it can trust for boosting its national security.

So while I really appreciate China as an all weather friend of Pakistan, I agree with you when you say we should not put all of our eggs in one basket. It will be wise to diversify our weapon acquisitions and not rely on a single partner completely. Let's not repeat the debacle of 60,70 and 80's.

Right @Sharpshooter12 .. but some of our country-fellows here are not in a position to accept this "hypothetical scenario" .. some even ready to lay down there arms if such situation came someday.
but... now or later . there will be such situations someday. and we must prepare ourselves for that day.. after all china koi phupi ka beta to hay nahe hamara kay jo deta jaye ga deta jaye ga or return me kuch nahe mangy ga...

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Pakistan does not need the J31 or any 5th gen aircraft at this time. The reason being that it does not have a large number of heavies to support the use of the J31 type of aircraft----.

I very seriously doubt that the usage of the aircrafts like the F22 and the F35 's would be as advertised---but it would be more like the video that @Aamir Hussain posted a few days ago regarding the F22's entering into a conflict and then getting support aircraft involved in action.

In the current scenario---Pakistan needs an air superiority aircraft and a dedicated heavy strike aircraft----.

The J31 type of aircraft would be needed in around 10 years time if the above mentioned aircraft are procured.

 

[mike2000 is back]

No matter how much you boast, Korean is the puppet of US; when GE has offered them F-414, they have no right to refuse. Moreover, the US has much better layout for F414 such as F414-EPE, while EJ-230 is still on paper. RR military engine development ability will disappear sooner or later.

Lool ahahahah....Ok, If you say so fortune teller, i can see you can read the future. Hopefully RR engines will dissapear from the market and China will take over/replace them. Good luck.

 

[aliaselin]

Lool ahahahah....Ok, If you say so fortune teller, i can see you can read the future. Hopefully RR engines will dissapear from the market and China will take over/replace them. Good luck.

I do not say RR engine but RR military engine. No power = no influence, as in the KFX case, but also EF 2000 in Japan and Korea's next generation fighter cases, RR and BAE are accompanying bidders and peoples with a sober mind have known the results even before the bidding process started.
EJ-200 has the largest T/W ratio in medium thrust engine and best structure, however, who cares?

 

[Muhammad Omar]

Hi,

Pakistan does not need the J31 or any 5th gen aircraft at this time. The reason being that it does not have a large number of heavies to support the use of the J31 type of aircraft----.

I very seriously doubt that the usage of the aircrafts like the F22 and the F35 's would be as advertised---but it would be more like the video that @Aamir Hussain posted a few days ago regarding the F22's entering into a conflict and then getting support aircraft involved in action.

In the current scenario---Pakistan needs an air superiority aircraft and a dedicated heavy strike aircraft----.

The J31 type of aircraft would be needed in around 10 years time if the above mentioned aircraft are procured.

Agree with you that we need air superiority fighter

And J-31 or Turkish one is not coming in for at least decade...

But Pakistan can invest in J-31 as China seeking Partner.... We can give some money in 10 years

 

[kurutoga]

The test aircraft has been flying for more than two years, Peng told reporters after the briefing. AVIC is planning first flight of the production aircraft in 2019, with initial operational capability scheduled for 2022. The FC-31 will be fully operational in 2024.

Can someone please explain what they meant by first flight and fully operational? If that is true then FC-31 won't be available until 2024. Or, this is a sign that Chinese Navy/Air force is buying?

If the prototype we saw several years ago was merely a tech demo. The project is not yet officially started.