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China Trains To Take On Vietnam.

Death Rattle

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China Trains To Take On Vietnam.

October 26, 2012: At least one Su-30 of the Chinese Air Force Aggressor Squadron has been spotted painted in the colors of the Vietnamese Air Force (which also uses Su-30s). Relations with Vietnam have been increasingly tense in the last few years, and this paint job on a Chinese Su-30 may just be a warning to Vietnam or it may indicate a lot of Chinese pilots are being trained to quickly identify and deal with Vietnamese Su-30s.
The Chinese Air Force now has a training unit that will accurately (as possible) portray enemy (especially American and Indian) aircraft and combat tactics. Thus there are three Blue-Army Aggressor Squadrons (Blue is the bad guys in Chinese training, Red is the good guys) for this. One is equipped with Su-30s, to represent American F-15s or Indian or Vietnamese Su-30s. Another has the J-10A, which is similar to the F-16. The third squadron has J-7s (Chinese copies of the MiG-21), which represent low end threats, like the many MiG-21s India still uses.

Using your own aircraft for "aggressor (or dissimilar) training" began in the 1969, when the U.S. Navy established the original "Top Gun" fighter pilot school. This was done in response to the poor performance of its pilots against North Vietnamese pilots flying Russian fighters. What made the Top Gun operation different was that the training emphasized how the enemy aircraft and pilots operated. This was called "dissimilar training". In the past, American pilots practiced against American pilots, with everyone flying American aircraft and using American tactics. It worked in World War II, because the enemy pilots were not getting a lot of practice and were using similar aircraft and tactics anyway. Most importantly, there was a lot of aerial combat going on, providing ample opportunity for on- the- job training. Not so in Vietnam, where the quite different Russian trained North Vietnamese were giving U.S. aviators an awful time. The four week Top Gun program solved the problem. The air force followed shortly with its Red Flag school. In the early 1980s, the Russians established a dissimilar air combat school, and the Chinese followed in 1987.

Over the last four decades the two American training programs have developed differently, and the entire concept of "dissimilar training" has changed. The navy kept Top Gun as a program to hone fighter pilot's combat skills. The air force made their Red Flag program more elaborate, bringing in the many different types of aircraft involved in combat missions (especially electronic warfare). But after the Cold War ended, it became increasingly obvious that none of our potential enemies was providing their fighter pilots with much training at all. In other words, the dissimilar training for U.S. fighter pilots was not as crucial as it had been during the Cold War. Actually, it had been noted that flying skills of Soviet pilots was declining in the 1980s, as economic problems in the USSR caused cuts in flying time. During that period American pilots were actually increasing their flying time. Moreover, U.S. flight simulators were getting better. American pilots were finding that even the game oriented combat flight simulators had some training value.

So in the late 1990s, Top Gun and Red Flag found their budgets cut. But the programs remain, as does the memory of why they were set up in the first place. If we find that, say, China is continuing to improve its combat aviation, gives its fighter pilots more flying time, and their politicians maintain a bellicose attitude towards the U.S., there will be a need to increase American Top Gun training. Because of the new Chinese "dissimilar training" effort, the U.S. Top Gun and Red Flag schools are being restored to their former prominence, sort of. The Chinese move is certainly a very meaningful one, as it shows that they are serious about preparing their pilots to fight and defeat Taiwanese and American pilots. Dissimilar training is how that is done.

The U.S. Navy has refurbished surplus U.S. Air Force National Guard F-16 flight simulator to help keep its F-16 pilots in shape for using F-16s to train navy pilots (in F-18s) how to best deal with Chinese and other potential enemy pilots. The navy uses F-16s because these aircraft are best able to replicate the performance of likely high end enemy fighters. That's because Russia and China have used the F-16 as the model for most of their latest fighters (the Russian MiG-29 and Chinese J-10). The navy bought 26 of a special model (F-16N) of the aircraft in the late 1980s. But in the 1990s, the navy retired its F-16Ns, because of metal fatigue, and had to wait nearly a decade before it got sixteen more. The refurbished simulator had its cockpit modified to reflect the one the navy F-16s uses.

The navy also uses F-5s to simulate lower performance enemy fighters. The navy has also bought and modified 44 F-5E fighters from Switzerland. The U.S. uses F-5s, a 12 ton fighter roughly similar to the MiG-21. The F-5 is normally armed with two 20mm cannon and three tons of missiles and bombs. The U.S. Navy modified and refurbished the Swiss F-5s so their performance better matched that of Russian or Chinese aircraft.

The MiG-21 is still widely used, although it is rapidly disappearing. It is a 9.5 ton, 1950s design, the most widely produced post World War II fighter (over 10,000 built). It is cheap and easy to maintain but not so effective in the air. Many nations keep them in service because of the low cost and because a wide range of avionics and weapons upgrades are available. Not really designed for ground attack but it can carry 1.5 tons of bombs. U.S. pilots are much better at killing MiG-21s once they have trained against an F-5 being flown like a MiG-21.

Warplanes: China Trains To Take On Vietnam
 
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I hope we are still friends though. By the way I train every day on my computer how to shoot down enemy planes. :lol:
 
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Air force simulation training is nothing compared to the agent orange we stockpiled just for Viets :azn:

I see you love such stuff.

We still have enough in VN, just give me your home address, and we will spray on you to make you happy. Anyway judging your posts and comments, I assume your brain is as small as a 10 year kid. No need to worry for me.

:lol:
 
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I see you love such stuff.

We still have enough in VN, just give me your home address, and we will spray on you to make you happy. Anyway judging your posts and comments, I assume your brain is as small as a 10 year kid. No need to worry for me.

:lol:

you should know that the weight of brain does not grow much after 10 years old.You should recharge yourself of human biology
 
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I see you love such stuff.

We still have enough in VN, just give me your home address, and we will spray on you to make you happy. Anyway judging your posts and comments, I assume your brain is as small as a 10 year kid. No need to worry for me.

:lol:

Why do you dislike 10 year kids

Actually, you are lucky. You haven't got a last warning yet.
 
. . .
i thought for a minute china is making war trains

armored-trains-the-steel-titans-24864_1.jpg



lol
 
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For anyone from the country in the north, and has not noticed: there is a huge difference between simulation and reality.

Story of real air battles between North Vietnamese and American Airforces. From the US view:



America
F-4 Phantom


300px-F-4B_VMFA-314_1968.jpg



The McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II is a tandem, two-seat, twin-engine, all-weather, long-range supersonic jet interceptor fighter/fighter-bomber originally developed for the United States Navy by McDonnell Aircraft.
Introduced: December 30, 1960
Designer: David S. Lewis, Jr.
Manufacturers: McDonnell Douglas, McDonnell Aircraft



North Vietnam
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21


55_21.jpg



The Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21 is a supersonic jet fighter aircraft, designed by the Mikoyan-Gurevich Design Bureau in the Soviet Union.
Weight: 4,871 kg
Introduced: 1959
Manufacturer: Mikoyan







 
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you should know that the weight of brain does not grow much after 10 years old.You should recharge yourself of human biology

LOL thank you for the lesson. I correct: your countryman Sino is as dumb as a d-g. A vicious man.
 
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Respect for brave North Vietnamese pilots!


MiG-17 and MiG-21 pilots, Phantom and "Thud" Killers
By Diego Zampini, Nov. 2002. Updated March 22, 2012.
http://acepilots.com/vietnam/viet_aces.html

MiG-17PF.jpg

North Vietnam MIG-17

August 23 1967, 14:00. Another US raid against the capital of North Vietnam is in process.

Due to the size of the American formation (40 aircraft, including Thunderchiefs carrying bombs, F-105Fs ready to supress the SAM radars, and escorting Phantoms) the crew of one of those F-4Ds, Charles R. Tyler (pilot) and Ronald M. Sittner (WSO), of the 555th TFS/8th TFW, felt overconfident. They did not expect any MiGs, which had been inactive after several bloody defeats dealt them by the Phantoms of the 8th TFW in late May and early June.

Suddenly, Tyler heard on the radio an F-105D pilot (Elmo Baker) announcing that he had been hit by a MiG-21 and was ejecting. As Tyler looked for the unexpected bandit, a tremendous explosion shook his plane, and Tyler lost control of his aircraft, and bailed out. Hanging in his parachute he saw his F-4D falling in flames to the jungle, but he did not see his WSO eject; Sittner had been killed instantly by the missile hit. Both Tyler and Baker were captured by North Vietnamese troops as soon as they touched the ground.

Both had been shot down by R-3S Atoll missiles fired by two MiG-21PF Fishbeds of the 921st Fighter Regiment of the Quan Chung Khong Quan (Vietnamese People's Air Force, VPAF) flown by Nguyen Nhat Chieu and Nguyen Van Coc. Two more F-4Ds fell that day, without any MiGs lost, one of the VPAF's most successful days.

While only two American pilots became aces in the Vietnam War - Randy "Duke" Cunningham (USN) and Steve Ritchie (USAF) - sixteen Vietnamese pilots earned that honor. Nguyen Van Coc is also the Top Ace of Vietnam War with 9 kills: 7 planes and 2 UAV (Un-manned Airborne Vehicle) Firebees. Among those seven US planes, six are confirmed by US records (see table below), and we should add to this figure a confirmed USAF loss (the F-102A flown by Wallace Wiggins (KIA) on February 3 1968), originally considered a probable by the VPAF. Even omitting UAV "drones," his 7 confirmed kills qualified Coc as the Top Ace of the war, because no American pilot achieved more than 5.

MiG-17s.jpg

North Vietnamese pilots run towards their MiG-17s to take off and engage US aircraft.


MiG-21_921FR2.jpg

Vietnamese ground personnel prepare two MiG-21PF for combat.


VietAces2.jpg

VPAF Aces. From left to right: Nguyen Van Bay (7 kills), Nguyen Van Coc (9) and Nguyen Doc Soat (6).


 
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