China to upgrade radar of Pakistan’s JF-17 fighter aircraft

[Ultima Thule]

J-10A does not use 2032.

but some tech ,remember sir Chinese connections/interest in LAVI project (international rumors) sir

 

[Akasa]

but some tech ,remember sir Chinese connections/interest in LAVI project (international rumors) sir

Yes, but it wasn't with the 2032.

 

[Ultima Thule]

yes sir from 2032

Yes, but it wasn't with the 2032.

 

[BetterPakistan]

Pakistan Air Force becoming advance and more lethal. Good going our beauty JF-17

 

[araz]

yes sir from 2032

@Akasa and @pakistanipower. Please agree to disagree and move on. This yes it was and no it was not conversation is getting cery tiring.
Lets move on guys.
A

 

[krash]

Hi,

No---it does not work like that----. Once the upgrade starts---all older aircraft in service need to be brought upto the same standards if they were to remain in service---or need to be phased out of service---.

Flying with an aesa radar---is a different ball game---you have to fly combat with different rules of engagement and disengagement---the utility and fucntion of the aesa and non aesa system is different---.

Let us say---in war time---one air force base with non aesa radar JF17's gets destroyed---all the aircraft are gone---the pilots survive and need to be transfered to active JF17 bases.

The problem now is---that all those active JF17 bases have JF17's flying with aesa radar---what are you gonna do---?

You're diving a little too deep. Think of the two different radars as two different aircraft altogether, if you must. The problems that you have stated would still be present between the JF-17 pilots and the F-16 squadrons or the F-7 squadrons or the Mirage squadrons. Should we only have 1 type of aircraft? Besides, the left over pilots from the destroyed hypothetical squadron would not exactly be needed at another fully operational squadron unless we are also hypothesising that while the first squadron has lost all its aircraft the second squadron at the same time has lost all its pilots. Apart from the fact that both types of JF-17s would be operational in multiple other squadrons where the aircraft-less pilots could be dispatched. Last time I heard, PAF had a pilot to aircraft ratio of 4:1.

While it's obvious that it would be beneficial to have a uniformly upgraded fleet of aircraft (more so for the capability increase than the reasons stated above), there are at times other obvious reasons why this might not be possible. And it's not that big a deal, air-forces around the world have long since operated in these situations.

 

[MastanKhan]

You're diving a little too deep. Think of the two different radars as two different aircraft altogether, if you must. The problems that you have stated would still be present between the JF-17 pilots and the F-16 squadrons or the F-7 squadrons or the Mirage squadrons. Should we only have 1 type of aircraft? Besides, the left over pilots from the destroyed hypothetical squadron would not exactly be needed at another fully operational squadron unless we are also hypothesising that while the first squadron has lost all its aircraft the second squadron at the same time has lost all its pilots. Apart from the fact that both types of JF-17s would be operational in multiple other squadrons where the aircraft-less pilots could be dispatched. Last time I heard, PAF had a pilot to aircraft ratio of 4:1.

While it's obvious that it would be beneficial to have a uniformly upgraded fleet of aircraft (more so for the capability increase than the reasons stated above), there are at times other obvious reasons why this might not be possible. And it's not that big a deal, air-forces around the world have long since operated in these situations.

Hi,

One can have as many excuses as one wants to, look at the issues and let the problems stay where they are.

Excuses are the first step to failure---.

Air forces around the world have not operated in those situations as Paf does---.

Small air forces---that want to compete and fight against large air forces and come out ahead---have to think differently and approach the problem in a different manner---.

The different manner is the uniformity of technology in all their front line tier 1 aircraft---.

That also takes the CRYING GAME out of the picture---. Now we cannot blame our problems on sanctions all the time---because now we have a system available that when uniformly installed---gives us a massive advantage over our enemy---.

The problem with modern day weapons is---that you cannot upgrade them during a war---you have to upgrade them years before when you go to war---so that you may learn how to use them---.

The other thing is---as we don't use aesa radar in any of our aircraft---all we can do is assume and talk good things about the conventional radars in the aircraft---.

The thing is that when we have 1 sqdrn of aircraft equipped with aesa radars and they go fighting with those without aesa---during training---the obvious will come out as daylight---.

For an AVERAGE analyst---that would be the moment when they would have their eyes popping out of their heads---but for those analysts who have some vision or ability to understand what it is---they already know the answer.

 

[The SC]

Hi,

No---it does not work like that----. Once the upgrade starts---all older aircraft in service need to be brought upto the same standards if they were to remain in service---or need to be phased out of service---.

Flying with an aesa radar---is a different ball game---you have to fly combat with different rules of engagement and disengagement---the utility and fucntion of the aesa and non aesa system is different---.

Let us say---in war time---one air force base with non aesa radar JF17's gets destroyed---all the aircraft are gone---the pilots survive and need to be transfered to active JF17 bases.

The problem now is---that all those active JF17 bases have JF17's flying with aesa radar---what are you gonna do---?

You are right..and there is a possible solution to that in training the pilots of non-upgradable JF-17s (let's say Block 1) on both radar systems..

 

[MastanKhan]

You are right..and there is a possible solution to that in training the pilots of non-upgradable JF-17s (let's say Block 1) on both radar systems..

Hi,

When a pilot is trained on a 5th gen aircraft---he is made to forget what the EW package of the 4th gen aircraft operated like---. They have to learn to fly and operate the aircraft in a different manner---.

On a similar scale---when a pilot switched over from a conventional radar to an AESA radar---the battle plans are different---because the playing field has changed---.

Now that you are learning that you have eye sight and your opponent is blind for a certain time period---. Your battle plans are now focused on that little window of time frame---where your enemy is blind---and that is where you learn to fight different---.

It would be impossible to go back to the conventional radar system and still be a tier 1 pilot---.

 

[Maxpane]

Hi,

When a pilot is trained on a 5th gen aircraft---he is made to forget what the EW package of the 4th gen aircraft operated like---. They have to learn to fly and operate the aircraft in a different manner---.

On a similar scale---when a pilot switched over from a conventional radar to an AESA radar---the battle plans are different---because the playing field has changed---.

Now that you are learning that you have eye sight and your opponent is blind for a certain time period---. Your battle plans are now focused on that little window of time frame---where your enemy is blind---and that is where you learn to fight different---.

It would be impossible to go back to the conventional radar system and still be a tier 1 pilot---.

Agree sir

 

[The SC]

Hi,

When a pilot is trained on a 5th gen aircraft---he is made to forget what the EW package of the 4th gen aircraft operated like---. They have to learn to fly and operate the aircraft in a different manner---.

On a similar scale---when a pilot switched over from a conventional radar to an AESA radar---the battle plans are different---because the playing field has changed---.

Now that you are learning that you have eye sight and your opponent is blind for a certain time period---. Your battle plans are now focused on that little window of time frame---where your enemy is blind---and that is where you learn to fight different---.

It would be impossible to go back to the conventional radar system and still be a tier 1 pilot---.

I'd agree with you 100% if we were talking about two different platforms, like let's say the F-16 and the F-15, or a Migoyan and a Sukhoi.. but here we just have an upgrade to the same platform and where the existing pilots already familiar with the older Radar will only have to update their knowledge and practice of new techniques provided with the new technology of the new radar .. The JF-17 III is not a 5th generation fighter as far as what is known about it..

 

[Tank131]

The reality is that the PAF wants to field the most advanced and capable force it cam on the cheapest dollar. If it can upgrade the entire block 1 and 2 fleet with AESA Radars for the cost of 8-10 block 2 fighters it absolutely will because each fighter will be far more capable than the it was previously.

 

[MastanKhan]

I'd agree with you 100% if we were talking about two different platforms, like let's say the F-16 and the F-15, or a Migoyan and a Sukhoi.. but here we just have an upgrade to the same platform and where the existing pilots already familiar with the older Radar will only have to update their knowledge and practice of new techniques provided with the new technology of the new radar .. The JF-17 III is not a 5th generation fighter as far as what is known about it..

Hi,

Your assessment is incorrect---. In weapon's world it does not work that way---.

The JF17 blk 3 is not a 5th gen fighter---but its aesa radar would be 5th gen technology.

 

[The SC]

Hi,

Your assessment is incorrect---. In weapon's world it does not work that way---.

The JF17 blk 3 is not a 5th gen fighter---but its aesa radar would be 5th gen technology.

Will it?
Buddy, my assessment is a military one, not an amateur assessment.. the KLJ-7A AESA range is 170 km, comparing it to the F-35 it is a 4 +/++ generation fighters radar.. please don't argue for the sake of it..
But you have missed the point, which was: it does take much more than training the pilots already trained on the mechanical radar, on the new one and the new tactics, since the platform is the same..
No need to extend this to 5th generation fighters and what have you..A rational discussion does not work that way..

 

[Dazzler]

Will it?
Buddy, my assessment is a military one, not an amateur assessment.. the KLJ-7A AESA range is 170 km, comparing it to the F-35 it is a 4 +/++ generation fighters radar.. please don't argue for the sake of it..
But you have missed the point, which was: it does take much more than training the pilots already trained on the mechanical radar, on the new one and the new tactics, since the platform is the same..
No need to extend this to 5th generation fighters and what have you..A rational discussion does not work that way..

170km for 5m2 target, not overall search range.