China to share notes with Pakistan on India's efforts for UN Security Council seat

[navtrek]

On the United For Consensus Group that is opposing expansion in permanent members;

Uniting for Consensus (UfC) is a movement (nicknamed the Coffee Club) that developed in the 1990s in opposition to the possible expansion of the United Nations Security Council. Recently revived by Italy, it now has about 40 members aiming to counter the G4 nations' bids for permanent seats. The leaders are Italy, Pakistan, Mexico, Argentina and South Korea.[2]

...

Some of the members of the Uniting For Consensus group are:

- Argentina, Colombia, Mexico - opposed to a bid for Brazil
- Italy, Netherlands, Spain - opposed to a bid for Germany (wishing for a seat for the whole European Union)
- South Korea - opposed to a bid for Japan
- Pakistan - opposed to a bid for India
- Canada - opposed in principle to expansion not achieved by consensus or near-consensus


Uniting for Consensus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


========
If giving various regions a 'voice' in the UNSC is the issue, then increasing rotating seats from those regions (for example 5 from South America, 5 from Asia, 5 from Africa, etc.) is a far more representative proposal, in which only one nation will not have the ability to protect its interests and thwart those of others, as would be the case with the increase in permanent membership.

Why does south Korea object Japan ?

 

[navtrek]

There are four countries vying to become UNSC permanent members, not just India, and the process of adding permanent members (if that is the route taken) will revolve around all four nations becoming permanent member, not just one, otherwise the remaining three would oppose the process as well.

Therefore, the opposition of the UFC nations, to one or more of the candidates for permanent membership, results in the UFC acting as a group opposing the entire process of increasing permanent membership of the UNSC, and instead proposing the reforms outlined by Ambassador Haroon in his speech posted above.

Instead of opposing the system why not become a part of the system and correct it from within the system.

Pakistan supporting India for UNSC seat can act as a major confidence building measure.

By getting in more and more members in the UNSC the council would become more representative this fact would itself dilute the power accumulation and elitist attitudes of a few nations.

 

[navtrek]

Well he is just telling the truth.

Unless there is another world war, the five permanent holders in the UNSC will not allow their power to be 'diluted'. They may 'support' one or two in the four countries group but actually they are happy to see the victory of the 'coffee group' and the failure of india and her mates.

grim and ruthless as the world always is.

I feel by appointing more and more permanent members in the UNSC would make it more representative thus also diluting the powers held by these nations.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Why does south Korea object Japan ?

Because of Japanese War Crimes against South Korea and China. There were 20 million dead in China alone from WW2.

However all the Japanese war criminals from WW2 are now DEAD, so I don't hold any grudge towards Japan at all. In fact I have a lot of admiration for modern day Japan.

The real reason... is that it's being used as a "political bargaining chip" to gain concessions out of Japan, i.e. for them to stop trying to alter history books and to stop them from visiting the shrine of WW2 war criminals.

It's just politics nowadays.

 

[applesauce]

Because of Japanese War Crimes against South Korea and China. There were 20 million dead in China alone from WW2.

However all the Japanese war criminals from WW2 are now DEAD, so I don't hold any grudge towards Japan at all. In fact I have a lot of admiration for modern day Japan.

The real reason... is that it's being used as a "political bargaining chip" to gain concessions out of Japan, i.e. for them to stop trying to alter history books and to stop them from visiting the shrine of WW2 war criminals.

It's just politics nowadays.

it isnt modern japan thats a problem presay, but the visiting of the shrines is a real deal breaker. those are war criminals convicted of mass murders. think how germandy deals with hitler worshippers

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

it isnt modern japan thats a problem presay, but the visiting of the shrines is a real deal breaker. those are war criminals convicted of mass murders. think how germandy deals with hitler worshippers

I agree with you, I think it is very rude when Japanese prime ministers visit the shrines of war criminals. The fake history textbooks which ignore the Nanjing massacre are also a problem.

So China will not let Japan join the UN Security Council. We have a permanent seat and a veto vote, we can keep them out forever, or at least until they concede to our viewpoint.

However Japan is no longer a real threat to China because of their reduced military after WW2. So maybe we should think about trying to gain a better understanding of each other to ensure there is less tension in Asia.

 

[EjazR]

I think there should be an increase in the number of permanant members particularly those that are part of the G20 as well. But I am against the veto power. The vetopower should be stripped from all permanant members including the current permanant members and the UNSC majority vote should decide the resolutions.