China to complete J-10 development before launching fifth-generation fighter

[SBD-3]

I really don't think so personally that JF-17 will gonna be equal to Rafale or Eurofighter or even against Su-30 MKI, so why everybody keep on saying that it will make Pakistan defence invincible which is not a true story my dear.

So stop doing this by giving jf-17 A+ grade marks where it is standing under B grade and i dont think so that it will gonna reach grade B.

helloooo! what makes you think that JF wont be able to meet the MKI and MMRCA challange? look JF has met PAF's requirementswhat do you think PAF would be preparing for ageing mig-21s of IAF? or F-5s of Iran? Look if Jf is solution for Mig-21 then PAF would not be that stupid. Creating a young worrior for a dying old? as far as Tejas is concerned its not gona show up in numbers anytime soon. the main threat is always from MKI and MMRCA. JF is something more than what you think. I can still recall a poster referring to the test pilots that they were very satisfied and wanted to challenge a F-15 after training with F-16s. It should be clear that JF is a Capable fighter if not A+ then a possible A

 

[SBD-3]

Gripen too is inferior as compared to Su-30 and MMRCA contender.

Griffon NG is no way inferior to anyone


The Gripen is an excellent interceptor actually, the information superiority is extremely well developed, for instance one Gripen knocked down five F-16 falcons, and won every encounter during two weeks in the exercise Red Flag Alaska.

furthermore, here is another detailed comparison

 

[deckingraj]

helloooo! what makes you think that JF wont be able to meet the MKI and MMRCA challange? look JF has met PAF's requirementswhat do you think PAF would be preparing for ageing mig-21s of IAF? or F-5s of Iran? Look if Jf is solution for Mig-21 then PAF would not be that stupid. Creating a young worrior for a dying old? as far as Tejas is concerned its not gona show up in numbers anytime soon. the main threat is always from MKI and MMRCA. JF is something more than what you think. I can still recall a poster referring to the test pilots that they were very satisfied and wanted to challenge a F-15 after training with F-16s. It should be clear that JF is a Capable fighter if not A+ then a possible A

Well i am not a military expert yet have read enough on this so would like to share my thoughts...

If we go by specs than i am sure we don't see JF-17 giving nightmares to MKI...However is this a good choice by PAF?? My plane anwer is YES...However we need to look at holisitc picture...I would like to ask what other options PAF has?? This is a platform which is cheap(currently your economy is in shambles)...have no sanctions(you don't want to repeat F-16 saga) and is good enough fighter to replace your aging fleets...So i am sure in the given circumstances Jf-17 is the best choice...but do you honestly think if you had money and no fear of sanctions you would have still gone for Jf-17??? I mean there has to be a reason that China herself don't use Jf-17 for their homeland security....Does that mean Jf-17 is cheap? heck no ...but it is certainly not the best fighter around...and certainly not a very potent interceptor for MKI....but can do the job with other logictics in place...

 

[SBD-3]

Well i am not a military expert yet have read enough on this so would like to share my thoughts...

If we go by specs than i am sure we don't see JF-17 giving nightmares to MKI...However is this a good choice by PAF?? My plane anwer is YES...However we need to look at holisitc picture...I would like to ask what other options PAF has?? This is a platform which is cheap(currently your economy is in shambles)...have no sanctions(you don't want to repeat F-16 saga) and is good enough fighter to replace your aging fleets...So i am sure in the given circumstances Jf-17 is the best choice...but do you honestly think if you had money and no fear of sanctions you would have still gone for Jf-17??? I mean there has to be a reason that China herself don't use Jf-17 for their homeland security....Does that mean Jf-17 is cheap? heck no ...but it is certainly not the best fighter around...and certainly not a very potent interceptor for MKI....but can do the job with other logictics in place...

two points,
If JF is given a more modern radar or with AWACS support, BVR factor would be crucial. with SD-10, R-Darter in pocket and possible MICA and Meteor choice, this field will gain strength.MKI is a big AC with a large RCS.AWACS will be able to detect it from a good range and it would face very tough time from incoming BVR's as well.

 

[TOPGUN]

Griffon NG is no way inferior to anyone


The Gripen is an excellent interceptor actually, the information superiority is extremely well developed, for instance one Gripen knocked down five F-16 falcons, and won every encounter during two weeks in the exercise Red Flag Alaska.

furthermore, here is another detailed comparison
[url="

Gripen NG DEMO video[/url]

Man if we had the funds and were able to get the gripen it would awsome after the new f-16's its my fav aircraft out there i would love to see this in PAF colors but again let me not be in fantasy world.

 

[Dark Angel]

Man if we had the funds and were able to get the gripen it would awsome after the new f-16's its my fav aircraft out there i would love to see this in PAF colors but again let me not be in fantasy world.

I second u bro,it is the best option for paf after f16 as it has a lot of features that pakistan is looking for ...

1)Netcentric Fighter - A truly Network connected next generation multi-role fighter with the world’s most highly developed secure and multi-frequency data link

2)Superior Sensor Fusion

3)Smart Digital Cockpit

4)See First – Kill First - A combination of low radar, IR and visual signatures, along with a state-of-the-art AESA radar

5)Outstanding Agility - One of the world’s most agile fighter for close combat

6)Affordability - Gripen achieves the lowest operating cost of any modern fighter by combining advanced system design, high technology, modern commercial off the shelf

7)Future development - The Gripen is built to be adaptable to changing threats and operational requirements that a modern Air Force faces.

 

[illuminatus]

Griffon NG is no way inferior to anyone


The Gripen is an excellent interceptor actually, the information superiority is extremely well developed, for instance one Gripen knocked down five F-16 falcons, and won every encounter during two weeks in the exercise Red Flag Alaska.

furthermore, here is another detailed comparison
[url="

Gripen NG DEMO video[/url]

First of all, I made the comparison between Gripen and Su-30. It remains to be seen whether Gripen is able to confront the Su-30 in the same manner as F-16. Let us not forget that Su-30 is a heavy-class fighter whereas Gripen belongs in the category lightweight fighter aircraft. Both will have their pros and cons when compared to each other.

Secondly, acquiring fighter jets isn't exactly like going to the candy store and buying some sweets. There are a whole range of requirements and criteria that need to be fulfilled before even a long list of candidates can be prepared. Then, of course, there's the financial question. Let's face it, Pakistan isn't in the best shape as far as the fiscal situation is concerned. Taking all these matters into consideration one can come to the same conclusion as PAF has. A JV with China for affordable and medium tech platforms is the way forward.

 

[pakpower]

helloooo! what makes you think that JF wont be able to meet the MKI and MMRCA challange? look JF has met PAF's requirementswhat do you think PAF would be preparing for ageing mig-21s of IAF? or F-5s of Iran? Look if Jf is solution for Mig-21 then PAF would not be that stupid. Creating a young worrior for a dying old? as far as Tejas is concerned its not gona show up in numbers anytime soon. the main threat is always from MKI and MMRCA. JF is something more than what you think. I can still recall a poster referring to the test pilots that they were very satisfied and wanted to challenge a F-15 after training with F-16s. It should be clear that JF is a Capable fighter if not A+ then a possible A

But I still think Pakistan should get money out of these curropet politicians and use them on building some more potent jet like Grippen it should be in the class of grippen not like JF-17.

 

[SBD-3]

First of all, I made the comparison between Gripen and Su-30. It remains to be seen whether Gripen is able to confront the Su-30 in the same manner as F-16. Let us not forget that Su-30 is a heavy-class fighter whereas Gripen belongs in the category lightweight fighter aircraft. Both will have their pros and cons when compared to each other.

Secondly, acquiring fighter jets isn't exactly like going to the candy store and buying some sweets. There are a whole range of requirements and criteria that need to be fulfilled before even a long list of candidates can be prepared. Then, of course, there's the financial question. Let's face it, Pakistan isn't in the best shape as far as the fiscal situation is concerned. Taking all these matters into consideration one can come to the same conclusion as PAF has. A JV with China for affordable and medium tech platforms is the way forward.

No doubt Pakistan should increase ties with China more and more especially in technology and industrial production. but tell you one thing. Griffon C/D is reportedly superior to F-16s and Griffon NG is highly modern fighter surpassing MKI in some critical areas (e.g radar,RCS,Weaponry,Super cruise) as well. Griffon is a ideal choice for economic centric AFs who want quality and affordability. It prefectly fits in PAF doctrine. Even Israel became concerned when PAF announced that it would also test griffon alongwith falcons. Swedes are way much more "customer friendly" than Yankees. one more thing that now Griffon NG is 100% made in Sweden means that no "US" thing in the deal

 

[mean_bird]

Well if our govt can just reduce the 100+ federal level ministerial posts, similarly provincial govts reduce their ministerial posts (take Balochistan Assembly whose all 65+ parliament members are ministers having perks as MPAs as well as ministers), reduce the expenditure of each MNA, MPA & Senators which costs billions of rupees, reduce excessive ministries & reduce just little bit of corruption in the development budget of 650+ Billion Rupees, i can guarantee you we can have in 2-3 years enough money to purchase considerable number of any 4th+ generation aircraft.

I remember an article with calculations for the expense of one Pakistani MNA was around 20-25Million per year, just imagine we have 342 MNAs, and the 600+ MPAs are separate then this, adding to it the hundred or so senators.

Just imagine what we can save even if we half their perks and privileges.

^^Also start taxing the feudal lords and/or implement land reform so that it is given to honest land labourers.

Wow! you guys are really expecting that from Zardari? Good luck.

I imagine pakistan developing its own Rafales before this happening

 

[SBD-3]

But I still think Pakistan should get money out of these curropet politicians and use them on building some more potent jet like Grippen it should be in the class of grippen not like JF-17.

look at this!

 

[mean_bird]

^^ Please refrain from posting photoshop images. Or atleast give a clear warning else you might mislead some people.

 

[illuminatus]

No doubt Pakistan should increase ties with China more and more especially in technology and industrial production. but tell you one thing. Griffon C/D is reportedly superior to F-16s and Griffon NG is highly modern fighter surpassing MKI in some critical areas (e.g radar,RCS,Weaponry,Super cruise) as well. Griffon is a ideal choice for economic centric AFs who want quality and affordability. It prefectly fits in PAF doctrine. Even Israel became concerned when PAF announced that it would also test griffon alongwith falcons. Swedes are way much more "customer friendly" than Yankees. one more thing that now Griffon NG is 100% made in Sweden means that no "US" thing in the deal

Is the engine US or Swedish? Anyhow, I don't doubt the capabilities of this new aircraft. Perhaps after the MMRCA deal is concluded PAF can start to work out how to counter this particular threat. If Gripen NG doesn't get selected by the IAF chances are PAF will pursue it. These chances are obviously very slim though. In the meantime, we will also have to wait and see what the Chinese have up their sleeves with the J-10B when finally commissioned for mass production.

 

[SBD-3]

Saab delivers the perfect match to Brazil
Saab has today submitted an update on the proposal offering 36 Gripen Next Generation (NG) to the Brazilian Air Force. The offer consists of a cost-effective solution, a comprehensive Technology Transfer and a unique competitive partnership between Brazil and Sweden.



10/2/2009 |

The updated proposal fulfils all the requirements stated by Brazil to develop, manufacture, operate, maintain and upgrade an independent multi-role fighter, together with an extensive industrial package with full transfer of technology. This will give Brazil the opportunity to be involved in the development as well as to include a significant number of Brazilian suppliers in Gripen NG aircraft.

The proposal was handed over to the Brazilian Air Force by Bengt Janér, Saab Campaign Director in Brazil and the Swedish Defence Attaché, Lieutenant Colonel Christer Olsson.

Present in Brazil is also Saab CEO, Mr Åke Svensson, State Secretary of Defence of Sweden, Mr Håkan Jevrell and Lieutenant General Mats Nilsson, director and Head of the department for Military Affairs.



“This will be a perfect match built on complementing abilities and technological excellence. A commitment from Sweden to Brazil delivers independence and not dependence. The unique industrial offset package means a direct involvement for Brazilian companies in the development, production and maintenance of Gripen NG. This will create and maintain high technology work opportunities in Brazil,” says Saab CEO Åke Svensson.

The updated proposal outlines its advantages for the Brazilian Air Force and Brazilian industry and includes:
A comprehensive Technology Transfer

* Full access to and complete involvement in the Gripen NG development programme.
* Complete Technology Transfer through joint development of the Gripen NG, giving national autonomy and independence in the design, development, manufacture and through-life support of Gripen NG and future generation fighters.
* Independence in terms of choice of weapons and systems integration.
* Production in Brazil of up to 80% Gripen NG airframes.
* Creation of a full Gripen NG assembly line in Brazil.
* Full maintenance capability in Brazil for the Gripen NG engine.

A unique competitive partnership

* Brazil will have the sales lead for Gripen NG in Latin America with joint opportunities for the rest of the world.
* Sweden’s commitment to take deliveries of Gripen NG aircraft in line with Brazilian time frames.
* Sweden’s intention to evaluate the KC-390 transport aircraft for long term tactical air transport needs.
* Saab’s ambition to join the transport aircraft KC-390 development programme as a strategic partner, including support in international marketing.
* A commitment from Saab to deliver over 175% of the total value in industrial co-operation to Brazilian industry.
* Saab proposes to replace the Swedish Air Force fleet of SK 60/Saab 105 trainers with the Super Tucano.

A cost-effective solution

A firm and highly competitive proposal for a long-term financing for the full FX-2 contract value from the Swedish Export Credit Corporation, a financial institution wholly owned by the Swedish Government.

Significantly lower acquisition, support and operating costs compared to the competition due to the optimised design, highly efficient manufacturing processes and ease of maintenance and support.


About Gripen Next generation

When entering operation, Gripen NG will be one of the most advanced fighter aircraft in the world utilizing the latest technology. Gripen NG is the next generation Gripen, an enhanced version of the well established multi-role fighter which has proven low acquisition, operation, and support costs. The Gripen NG programme covers development of avionics and all major sensors, including AESA radar. The aircraft will have increased thrust, increased payload, and extended range in excess of 4 000 km, whilst maintaining the lowest cost of ownership.

 

[SBD-3]

complete ToT for just 36 ACs! waoooooo